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  • S18A Spa: November 03, 2009
November 03, 2009, 09:46:29 PM +0000 - Spa (GPL) - UKGPL Season 18 (2009-2010) Amateurs Trophy (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
natan5
 
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 1 3:37.085
---
1 58:42.650
---
16 3:38.390
---
Dunlop  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 5 +0.857
---
2 +17.398
---
16 3:38.171
---
Goodyear  
MikeBeattie
 Drake Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 8 +2.073
---
3 +29.675
---
16 3:39.293
---
Dunlop  
FullMetalGasket
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 10 +2.373
---
4 +42.736
---
16 3:37.504
---
Goodyear  
Clutch4
 Mountside Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 9 +2.270
---
5 +43.924
---
16 3:38.156
---
Goodyear  
b_1_rd
 Clark-Hill Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 6 +44.021
---
16 3:38.725
---
Dunlop  
Asbjeurn Tverberg
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 14 +4.132
---
7 +1:38.778
---
16 3:42.678
---
Dunlop  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 11 +2.933
---
8 +1L
---
15 3:38.704
---
Dunlop  
fpolicardi
 Team7
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 4 +0.833
---
9 +10L
---
6 3:39.956
---
Goodyear  
JamesRye
 Reed Racing
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 13 +3.147
---
10 +12L
---
4 3:41.466
---
Dunlop  
kinghiro
 
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 12 +2.964
---
11 +14L
---
2 3:44.553
---
Dunlop  
miner2049er
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 15 +5.245
---
12 +10.632
---
2 3:51.227
---
Dunlop  
Turkey Machine
 Clark-Hill Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 2 +0.311
---
13 +16L
---
0 ---
---
Goodyear  
john roberts
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 3 +0.528
---
14
---
0 ---
---
Goodyear  
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 7 +1.909
---
15
---
0 ---
---
Dunlop  
Podkrecony_Ziutek
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 6 +1.674
---
16
---
0 ---
---
Dunlop  
5 UKGPL
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 17 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

A UKGPL favourite as it provides great races almost without fail. As it's such a long lap the more inventive drivers like Ryeman decided to try and find a woodland path to cut out the entire back section.

Unfortunately the eagle eyed Marshals saw him and disqualified him.

The Marshals also had a sweep stake on which lap John and Jethro would collide.

I believe Msr Bellafonte was the winner with lap 1.


Server replay time: 0h04m20s

John and Jethro collide (I know) at La Source and both are forced into retirement.

John passes Jethro cleanly into Blanchimont and Jethro tries to return the favour at La Source.

John covers the inside line fearing a banzai braking move up the inside but Jethro goes for the pass on the outside.

John loses sight of Jethro through the hairpin and sticks to the racing line but as he moves over on the exit he hits Jethro who is still attempting the pass.

Jethro achieves some overlap and is almost level at turn in but John's inside line and better control at the apex mean he pulls ahead again. Jethro keeps his foot in on and after the exit as John accelerates along the straight and the two collide.

While Jethro does achieve overlap, once again his decision making is called into question. A pass on the outside at La Source in a long Pro race is not advisable. Jethro has shown in previous races that he can catch John and at Spa would surely be presented with many opportunities to pass him if he was only patient enough.

Jethro's replay does show John at the exit but he does not react in time when perhaps he should have lifted. John's replay does not show Jethro at the exit.

Despite all the previous incidents between these two drivers I have put this down to a racing incident.

Jethro achieves overlap but must make better decisions as again this was an avoidable accident and it is up to the following driver to make a safe pass.

Racing Incident

  • Racing incident

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 18 (2009) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Spa (1967) - Nov 3  (Read 8740 times)
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b_1_rd
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« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2009, 08:13:37 AM +0000 »

I had a nightmare getting signed into the server, but with some frantic messing about with firewalls, rebooting the PC and the router I eventually got in with around 10 minutes left of qualifying and some work to do on a poor setup.

I was bottoming the car at Eau Rouge, but I had to be at full speed to get it, so had to complete a full lap to test the changes I was making.  Ride height was up already so in desperation I piled a bunch of Roll Bar and Wheel Rate on, both of which I knew were soft.  That worked but the setup was still unbalanced, and the gearing wasn't ideal, but went with what I had. 

Thankfully I managed to pick up a draft from Asbjeurn and got into a lap or so of a drafting battle with him and Phil who came to join us.  Asbjeurn had a spin at La Source which I just managed to avoid and am grateful to Phil for the room to do so, it must have been a bit close.

Phil got passed and I tucked in behind, in a hope that he could drag me around at a reasonable pace, I didn't challenge the position which would have only served to slow us both and undoubtedly would only result in Phil getting past again as he had much better pace than me.  Phil eventually broke the tow and pulled away.

Tim (FMG) was lurking with intent in in the background when I got gifted a place by Clutch, so then I had 2 fast drivers not very far behind.  I tried to make life a bit more intresting for them, but they got passed without too much difficulty, without a draft I seemed to be unable to hold anyone off, combined with a few mistakes I ended up sitting behind them both trying to cling on to their draft.  I did get a ring side seat of their duel which was fun to watch, but all I could hope for was an error by one, or both of them.  It was looking unlikely as we got to the final lap, I'd fallen too far back and lost the draft after another mistake but found Phil in the hedge at Stavelot and was again gifted a place.  I kept pushing as much as I could knowing Tim and Clutch were still fighting and maybe, just maybe will have a coming together in the final sector.

I'd all but given up hope as I approached La Source and, there they were! Something had happened........could I get past them to snatch a place......Tim got away quick, Clutch was nailing the throttle to get going too....I was there, nearly along side, pushing the throttle through the floor.....gaining, gaining, gaini...........finish line! Arrrgh! LOL! Never mind, it wasn't my place really, so well done to them both on a very quick recovery.

Good fun
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JamesRye
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2009, 08:46:42 AM +0000 »

Mike, I didn't save the replay but if braked a little early then that explains that and a podium from P17 would have been a little jammy anyhow.

No hard feelings, wheel to wheel action sometimes ends badly and there is always the next race  Wink

Jim
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Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2009, 09:59:21 AM +0000 »

Good thing: I didn't crash, neither with anyone else nor with myself/the scenery, so that's a step forward from earlier.

Bad thing: The rest. I spun when fighting with Steve, and lost both him and Phil, who was the third in our group. Then Tim caught me in his Honda. He got past, but I managed to stay in his tow and thought I was able to pass approaching Blanchimont. Well, I was wrong. I got past him, but didn't slow down enough to get through the first curve, and ran off onto the skate ramp and spun it again. Tim got away untouched, luckily, but I got too far behind to catch him again, And spent the rest of the race lurking along further and further behind, wondering if I should quit or go on 'till the end. I stayed, and gained a few more or less undeserved points.
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JamesRye
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2009, 12:30:54 PM +0000 »

Asbjeurn, your points are NOT undeserved, you finished whilst faster drivers tripped over themselves and crashed. I had much the same experience at Oulton Park where I was way off the pace, but kept it on the Island. Being slower doesn't always equate to less points  Grin.

Jim
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Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2009, 12:52:47 PM +0000 »

Yeah, but it's not much fun in earning them when you know that on a shorter track you'd be one or two laps behind the rest. Now, Spa is a bit special in that way that if you make a mistake, you end up way behind, and are in no way of catching up again if you're not faster than the others, which I'm not. Actually it demands even more concentration than many other tracks, even though it's not a very technically demanding track.
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EvilClive
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2009, 01:34:16 PM +0000 »

Grats to Natan for the win, although the cunning scheme that I had formulated halfway through this race, did not include that particular result Roll Eyes

Qually was just about ok for me as I never found an obliging tow truck to squeeze me up the grid which perhaps was a good thing in view of how the first few laps panned out.
I tried on a couple of occasions to give Hristo a tow, but on one occasion I made a mess of Malmedy and on the second I was on race fuel, so neither attemp was a roaring success Undecided
I knew this race was going to be all about slipstream (so geared the waza very high in 6th to allow for that) and as long as the leaders were in sight they could be caught, although passing might be another issue.

Eau Rouge was negotiated carefully and I slotted smoothly into the train up and around Les Coombes. I had Hristo's screaming BT7 behind and about 5 cars in front all relatively close.
Things started happening at Malmedy, someone went into the hedge on the left...someone else dived into the undergrowth on the right and bounced back as I skipped through, but they collected poor Hristo who would have been unsighted being right up my exhaust pipes at that point. Roll Eyes
That moved me up to 4th I think, following Natan in the lead, Jethro and John directly in 3rd. It was relatively easy to use the slipstream and cruise up behind this leading pack without straining any of the whizzy bits and by the time we got to Blanchimont I was comfortably in the "Tow Zone" . I think Mike and his Cooper could be heard somewhere behind, but not close enough to worry me at that point.
On the approach to Blanchimont John made a text book slipstream pass on Jethro and moved into 2nd spot behind Natan's BRM.

As far as I was concerned, I still had 17 laps to consider passes and backed off to settle in 4th spot.
At La Source ( a bend which is infuriating! because when you get it right it is so smooth and you seem to gain whole minutes of time, but when its wrong it seems like driving in treacle!!) John took the inside line on the approach and Jethro went very wide and late on the brakes.
From what I could see from my safe vantage point, behind, both cars were in each others blind spots and I could have predicted the outcome.
John accelerated away from the apex towards the outside Armco, and Jethro having taken the outside line, looked to have got on the power a bit earlier and harder and was aiming for the same part of space and time. I'm guessing that the first that either knew of the others whereabouts was about 5 nano seconds before impact!!........2nd place from 6th in one lap and no overtaking??!!

I had a moments concern as there was now about 2+ secs to Natan up ahead and that is getting towards the limit of substantial towage, so I put the hammer down for the next lap and made sure that he did not escape my clutches. Wink

The next 15 laps were quite boring as the two of us pulled steadily away from the rest of the field. Once or twice I eased alongside Natan or made a pass just to avoid falling asleep. There was no way either of us would escape the other unless a mistake was made.
So I settled in to the slipstream, short shifting and backing off on the straights .

THE PLAN..was to wait until the last lap and make a pass (exactly as John had done on Jethro) on the run up to Blanchimont. I had done a dummy run on Natan earlier in the race and I was able to carry more speed onto the uphill straight and with my longer gearing easily drafted past. There was nowhere for anyone to re-pass until La source and an inside defensive line and a solid exit would let me see the chequered flag first. 
It was a perfect plan except for a tiny flaw in the execution Undecided

Last lap, and I had positioned myself just far enough back to pick up the tow and maximise my speed. I dropped an extra gear as we took the right hander onto the straight up to Blanchimont and nailed the throttle........ and then my cunning plan misfired!! I put a rear wheel on the dirt and lost drive and direction just when I needed it most. That lost me about 20 metres which would prove critical. I still caught Natan and got alongside approaching Blanchimont , but he had covered the racing line and I was forced up the inside. I could not move back across because he had to be too close.
It was now the last chance to take the lead so I went for it, but just could not hold a tight enough line through the first left and ran wide onto the bank allowing Natan to sweep past as I performed a 360 spin.
Rats!!!
Fortunately I was far enough ahead of 3rd place to easily recover and cruise over the line in 2nd place...from 6th ...without actually making a single passing move that stuck lol. Grin
Thanks to Natan for towing my Honda for 16 laps, and to those who move out of the way for a Waza to take its rightful place on the podium.
She might only be slightly miffed at missing 1st...I hope

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FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2009, 02:25:52 PM +0000 »

I had a terrible qually due to lack of tow - I also managed to tow Natan to his pole while on a Race fuel test run when he sneakily chased me up the hill  Grin

That didn't bother me too much as my race setups normally allow me to regain places once underway properly.
That of course came to naught when I clipped my rear wheel on Fulvio's spinning Brabham and pirouetted off to the railway at some pace - Don't know how the Honda survived unscathed as I hit the brick wall damn hard!

Rejoined dead last of the runners and set about canning the poor waza mobile to within an inch of it's life to retake what I could, Promptly span it at the top of the hill through too much throttle/speed and did a 360  Roll Eyes

After this mishap I put my concentration cap on and simply abused the poor car round for the next 8 laps on my own, caught and passed Asb without a prob, the following lap he made his move on me into Blanchimont way too late - luckily I saw him coming and slamed the anchors on so he'd miss me - I took the inside to avoid his beleagured Fez and soldiered on having only lost a second or so.

I now found myself some 8 seconds behind Steve with 9 laps on the board, and commenced reeling him in to the tune of a seconds a lap, hurrah! a chance of another place! (was in 7th by now I think)
About 4 from the finish Clutch joined us just before La Source, Steve got by while I found myself just over a second behind him.
Even better! I now had a faster BRM to tow me upto and past Steve and I could hopefully mug him on the final lap  ninja
I caught them both and had passed both in the next lap, then the fun began as Clutch simply would not let me get away..
All went well until I forgot what lap it was and simply let Clutch by approaching Blanchimont thinking I had another lap and not wanting to end it early.
Luckily for me he went mega defensive and took the inside line into La Source - then Span!
I just avoided T-boning him properly and floored it away hoping to get far enough ahead to avoid him catching my tow on the final lap.
I was mighty suprised to then spot the flag man furiously waving at me - I'd done it! Last to 4th!  Shocked  angel

And had even caught the lead pair by some 3 seconds in the latter third of the race  Grin

Great racing Clutch and Steve, bad luck on the spin - TBH you should have taken the normal line, I know I was out braking you there the previous 2 laps but was too far back to make a serious attempt on the inside  Smiley

Grats to Natan on the Win, Evil for at least mildly amusing HER, and all other finishers  thumbup1
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miner2049er
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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2009, 03:16:51 PM +0000 »

I susccessfully managed to arrange last place on the grid and when some were admiring the scenery as the flag dropped I picked up a few places, and then a few more as I rounded Malmedy.

Got into some kind of rhythm and was chasing Asbjeurn but backed out of a move at Masta, again backed out at Stavelot and with Clutch now right behind me and also backing out of moves on me for the time being I had to pounce before he got me. I got better drive out of Stavelot and was going round the outside of Asbjeurn who defended the position and I had to lift or go on the grass so I waited until the run to Blanchimont where I was closing until somebody threw some iron filings into my inlet valves and my engine blew.

Disappointed as I have never blown an engine here and was confident of a bottom 2 finish.

Oh well.
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Turkey Machine
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« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2009, 05:57:34 PM +0000 »

Anybody able to download the server race replay?
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miner2049er
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« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2009, 06:27:27 PM +0000 »

Anybody able to download the server race replay?

I am having hosting gremlins today so it may be best to wait until tomorrow
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JamesRye
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« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2009, 07:04:58 PM +0000 »

please can someone confirm that:

Charade Clermont-Ferrand  1970      Charad70   #17

at the gpl track database is the right version to use?

Its just that i practiced at the wrong track for the Oulton race.


thanks...
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NickyIckx
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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2009, 07:21:29 PM +0000 »

should be this version , ( Vosblod said so at ukgpl/charade thread  ) .

It's Clermont-Ferrand, this one; http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=921&st=0&p=6104&#entry6104

The srou system has it listed as Charade but use the above link.
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JamesRye
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« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2009, 12:05:17 PM +0000 »

thanks Nicky  Smiley
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JamesRye
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« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2009, 01:31:35 PM +0000 »

OK, so I am resigned to being at the back of the grid for this one as I dont have much time these days to learn new tracks. Can anyone suggest what a reasonable lap time might be?

Currently I am 10 secs off the slowest AI driver!
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vosblod
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« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2009, 01:42:13 PM +0000 »

OK, so I am resigned to being at the back of the grid for this one as I dont have much time these days to learn new tracks. Can anyone suggest what a reasonable lap time might be?
Currently I am 10 secs off the slowest AI driver!
These are the results of the Clermont fun race we had in August to give you an idea; https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6639#event1853
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