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   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register     LM2 Replays Rules Links Circuits Teams  
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  • S18A Charade: November 17, 2009
November 17, 2009, 09:49:51 PM +0000 - Charade (1958-1988) - UKGPL Season 18 (2009-2010) Amateurs Trophy (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
FullMetalGasket
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 2 +1.027
---
1 1:08:01.824
---
20 3:22.087
---
Goodyear  
fpolicardi
 Team7
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 7 +4.635
---
2 +1:40.786
---
20 3:25.042
---
Goodyear  
kinghiro
 
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 8 +5.451
---
3 +2:35.040
---
20 3:28.567
---
Dunlop  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 11 +12.651
---
4 +1L
---
19 3:31.452
---
Dunlop  
natan5
 
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 5 +4L
---
16 3:27.864
---
Dunlop  
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 1 3:19.396
---
6 +7L
---
13 3:20.215
---
Dunlop  
john roberts
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 5 +3.110
---
7 +11L
---
9 3:25.887
---
Goodyear  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 6 +4.067
---
8 +14L
---
6 3:26.544
---
Goodyear  
MikeBeattie
 Drake Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 3 +1.360
---
9 +2.239
---
6 3:22.763
---
Dunlop  
Podkrecony_Ziutek
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 10 +7.855
---
10 +1:02.659
---
6 3:26.097
---
Dunlop  
b_1_rd
 Clark-Hill Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 14 +18.401
---
11 +16L
---
4 3:38.770
---
Dunlop  
Clutch4
 Mountside Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 12 +13.522
---
12 +17L
---
3 3:32.010
---
Goodyear  
JamesRye
 Reed Racing
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 9 +7.434
---
13 +18L
---
2 3:33.011
---
Dunlop  
Asbjeurn Tverberg
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 13 +14.874
---
14 +19L
---
1 3:52.738
---
Dunlop  
Turkey Machine
 Clark-Hill Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 4 +2.616
---
15 (+21) +20L
---
0 ---
---
Goodyear  
5 UKGPL
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 16 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

A race dreaded by some and anticipated by others due to the layout and the nature of the track, and it has to be said that there were some excellent lap times put in during the meet.

It was sad to see a few discos during the latter stages and luckily it didn't spoil the race too much for most drivers.

We are back to more familiar territory next time out with a trip to the Dutch coast.


Server replay time: 0h00m50s

Jethro and Mike Beattie collide at T1.

Mike moves from one side of the grid to the other on the run to T1 which is not advisable and Jethro keeps his foot in around the outside which is also not advisable at T1.

Mike did nothing wrong as he had plenty of overlap and any contact between them is exacerbated by warp which is clear as Jethro is sent towards the barrier.

Racing Incident

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h01m50s

Jethro and Jim collide approaching the left hander after the hairpin.

Jim brakes and Jethro runs into the back of him. Following the collision there appears to be some warp on Jethro's car.

Jim brakes a little early but this is a long Pro race and it is lap 1 on a tricky circuit with a high rate of attrition and that cannot be used as an excuse for the collision, nor can the warp which followed it. Jethro allows himself to follow Jim too closely and when he brakes earlier than Jethro wants he rear ends him.

I have found myself saying this several times this season and have applied appropriate penalties and warnings, but once again I re-iterate that it is always the responsibility of the pursuing driver to avoid such a collision and make a clean pass.

Whether or not this was an overtake attempt, and I am sure it is not, the contact is avoidable and unfortunately leads to a more serious incident as the drivers recover.

I want people to note that Jim has asked for no penalty to be given, but unfortunately I disagree on this occasion, especially given the history of similar incidents by the same driver.

A Simple Rear End Shunt would seem appropriate at first but it does not cover Lap 1 incidents so this has to be a Blatant Rear End Shunt and also attracts a lap 1 incident penalty on top.


Server replay time: 0h02m00s

Following the above incident Jethro was facing the wrong way and after letting KingHiro through he tries to rejoin. Steve just makes it through but Asbjeurn has nowhere to go as Jethro drives straight across the track in front of him.

The server replay clearly shows Asbjeurn approaching but Jethro's replay is only showing 1 car behind and that is the stationary Jim.

Jethro could not see that Asbjeurn was so close but should have known that he was not at the back of the field and potentially others would be close.

He could not have let Jim go first so there were would have been no more stricken cars behind, as Jim was also facing the wrong way so would not recover quickly.

As Jethro did hit a car (or caused one to hit him) but not one he could see, this equates to an Inconsiderate Bad Rejoin and again attracts a Lap 1 incident penalty.


Jethro was driving here under a suspended ban for similar incidents this season. The moderators inflicted this suspended ban after much consideration, and their main aim was to show Jethro that he needed to take more care when racing online against drivers of similar ability rather than to punish him.

Unfortunately there has been no marked improvement since the suspended ban was imposed and in fact there have been similar incidents in other divisions.

Therefore we feel that we have no choice but to put into force the 1 race ban which will be effective immediately and prevent Jethro from entering the next round of the 65 Amateurs season at Zandvoort on December 1st 2009.

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Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2009, 09:29:52 PM +0000 »

OK, my report:

Qualified next to last after Phil beat my time in the last minute.

The start went ok, I didn't do any mistakes, didn't gain or lose much, and drove happily off in the back of the field, behind Phil and one new guy called K. Hiro. The three of us got through Le Belvedere when we saw some cars had a gathering in the next turn. Luckily there was room to pass on the outside. Hiro got through, Phil got through, but when it was my turn, a Brabham crossed my path and I couldn't avoid hitting him. I was able to continue, but on the next lap my engine broke down. Obviously my cooler got the worst of the shunt, and wasn't able to keep the engine temperature down.

I watched the replay afterwards, to see who I crashed with, and to see what really happened. It's useful to watch the replay before I decide if I should get angry or not. Many times what I thought was another man another man crashing me out turned out to be all my fault, and all my anger disappeared like dust in the wind.

Well, this time I got angry from watching the replay. Jethro was in the brab, and I studied the replay both from my position and his. When I drove through, I was focusing on the gap between the to crashed cars and the side of the road, and I never expected that any of them would get in our way on purpose. OK, a stray car skidding across the track out of control was something I could expect in this situation, but both cars had stopped and seemed to be in control, so I presumed it was safe to pass. So his move was totally unexpected.

When watching the replay from his cockpit, I couldn't understand why on earth he started moving at that moment. There was no way in h*** he could avoid seeing there were three cars approaching, so why start moving before the last car had passed!?  Angry Jethro, what was going through your head in that situation? Did you see me coming at all, or did you have a tunnel vision so narrow that all you could see was your rev counter? In that case it was only tough luck that you hit me and not Phil or Hiro. It's not that you destroyed a winning chance for me, it's just that I love it so much driving this track, so when I get only one and a half lap, I get very disappointed. Sad
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Turkey Machine
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« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2009, 01:25:45 AM +0000 »

Asbjeurn, you have a right to be angry. I don't know what I was thinking. But keep in mind that the view from the server replay is very much biased against me, since the bandwidth settings are (from memory) 4+2, meaning 2 cars behind. The server replay sees all the cars on track, the client replay sees a couple of cars behind you accurately at any one time. One of them was James, who was stationary, which meant Pribluda was playing catchup and one car was appearing out of nowhere every couple of seconds due to the settings. I couldn't be sure how long to wait for, so just buried the throttle and hoped I didn't hit anybody. The hope was misplaced, and I have apologised to you. It won't happen at Zandvoort, I likely won't be there.
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2009, 04:30:38 AM +0000 »

Not to flame you or anything, Jethro, but you (or anyone else) should never rely on Pribluda for rejoining or judging gaps to other drivers in attempt to avoid collision. I've stopped using it partially because it keeps missing drivers around the track and having them suddenly appear in the standings and gaps list.

It's much better to use your ears and eyes, and gut feeling, to judge distances and approaching cars.

The other reason I stopped using it was because it's so damn distracting!
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bernie
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« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2009, 11:37:05 AM +0000 »

Quote
The other reason I stopped using it was because it's so damn distracting!

So what current book/magazine/newspaper/comic do you read whilst racing instead of Prib  Cheesy

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Turkey Machine
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« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2009, 02:07:05 PM +0000 »

H, that's all well and good, but when there's cars coming literally popping out of nowhere the sights and sounds don't mean a damn thing.
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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10. Why the hell do I keep crashing then?!
Asbjeurn Tverberg
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« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2009, 07:55:31 PM +0000 »

Sorry, Jethro. I didn't take the bandwidth settings in account. Off course when you don't see all the cars behind it's not easy to judge when it is safe to move. I must admit that I have experience in being in that sort of situation Roll Eyes, and if I'm forced to move across the track to get going again, I always move veery slowly, just to be sure that I'm able to stop if a car that I wasn't aware of should turn up.
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Turkey Machine
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« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2009, 08:26:42 PM +0000 »

TBF, it probably wouldn't have made a difference there anyway, any collision from the way my car was pointing was always going to be a big one. Where James's car was positioned meant that I couldn't do a slow 3-pointer or spin the car round without blocking the track.
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Everyone knows that million-to-one chances happen 9 times out of 10. Why the hell do I keep crashing then?!
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