Standards in iRacing events

[Fred Basset]

Darren's comments are very similar to my own views, I won't race if I've not practiced enough and feel its a duty to do so if I'm going to be racing against others who have spent time learning tracks. I also agree with Brian and I'm happy to do anything I can to help things progress here.

Oh and Darren, still plenty of good races to be had here, you've just been unlucky recently but I'm looking forward to another scrap like we had at Silverstone.

Regards
Gary

[Paul968]

From the sounds of it, I'm in the minority, but I sort of agree with Rob - without SR or iR it is easier to push that little bit more. I'm not sure he means that he deliberately takes less care, more that subconciously you do. My attitude is that I don't want to spin anyway as I want to finish well, but I'm prepared to push the car enough that a spin is possibility. Looking at the races up to now I think all the quick drivers do this, but it doesn't mean that races are necessarily spoiled.

I've watched the replay a fair bit now and the problems imo are not so much the number of spins as the way they are managed. Drivers need to do whatever they can when they go off to avoid affecting others (even if this compromises their race) and those approaching incidents need to be ready to back off. There were several cases on tuesday of drivers ignoring both of these things. I also think that tuesday was different from previous races - a lot of drivers felt they had a chance to do well and knew that they could lap within a few tenths of the leaders. This made for a very competitive race but also one where people drove closer to their own limits, hence the incident count.

[Ken Murray]

From the sounds of it, I'm in the minority, but I sort of agree with Rob - without SR or iR it is easier to push that little bit more. I'm not sure he means that he deliberately takes less care, more that subconciously you do. My attitude is that I don't want to spin anyway as I want to finish well, but I'm prepared to push the car enough that a spin is possibility. Looking at the races up to now I think all the quick drivers do this, but it doesn't mean that races are necessarily spoiled.

I've watched the replay a fair bit now and the problems imo are not so much the number of spins as the way they are managed. Drivers need to do whatever they can when they go off to avoid affecting others (even if this compromises their race) and those approaching incidents need to be ready to back off. There were several cases on tuesday of drivers ignoring both of these things. I also think that tuesday was different from previous races - a lot of drivers felt they had a chance to do well and knew that they could lap within a few tenths of the leaders. This made for a very competitive race but also one where people drove closer to their own limits, hence the incident count.

Yes Paul, but do we want people pushing that extra bit, egged on by there subconcious? As Ian said earlier, to last a whole 40min race doing that is very difficult, and some drivers are going to have a very poor season if they continually spin in every race. It doesn't matter whether the overdriving is deliberate, or subconcious, the result is the same.

I have to agree about the attitude required when approaching incidents. I think the main reason I was able to pick my way through the mayhem on Tuesday was for that very reason. I was quite prepared to back off when I saw yellows, or even just spotting a puff of tyre smoke. Some of it is just down to luck though, often no matter what you do the spinning car ahead just seems to be magnetically attracted to you!!!

[Kerr]

From the sounds of it, I'm in the minority, but I sort of agree with Rob - without SR or iR it is easier to push that little bit more. I'm not sure he means that he deliberately takes less care, more that subconciously you do. My attitude is that I don't want to spin anyway as I want to finish well, but I'm prepared to push the car enough that a spin is possibility. Looking at the races up to now I think all the quick drivers do this, but it doesn't mean that races are necessarily spoiled.

My method of preparation is I drive until I build up pace and this takes some time. Once I feel I have achieved the fastest times at that risk level I start giving it more.

To be honest my practice session end up very messy as once at that stage I'm trying to find my maximum ability at every corner and often I exceed that in practice.

Come the race I know to draw my neck in and drive as fast as I sensibly can and to be honest I don't push as hard to know a mistake might come, I'm on the pace where I feel a mistake will not be there.

From the races I've won most have come where I've made a good start and pulled away over the first 25% of the race. Old mentality would have said to me push and win by as much as you can. Now I give more thought to doing well than diving fast and often that means driving just to match the car behind.

As for the SR iR debate, I want good SR and iR. However I'd much rather be viewed as a good honest sporting driver than anything else. Figures do often tell a story but it's not always that clear.

[Paul968]

But how are you going to stop it Ken? It is exactly the same for drivers in all the other Srou events? Drivers will make a judgement on how likely they are to spin, and if they keep doing it then they will change. You can't legislate easily for this as pretty much everyone does it. The skippy is hard to drive quickly and errors are going to happen. I agree that drivers should not race if they are not capable of staying in control but other than that I think the system should concentrate on teaching drivers to manage their mistakes better. There is plenty of incentive not to spin just because it will kill your race.

[Ken Murray]

But how are you going to stop it Ken? It is exactly the same for drivers in all the other Srou events? Drivers will make a judgement on how likely they are to spin, and if they keep doing it then they will change. You can't legislate easily for this as pretty much everyone does it. The skippy is hard to drive quickly and errors are going to happen. I agree that drivers should not race if they are not capable of staying in control but other than that I think the system should concentrate on teaching drivers to manage their mistakes better. There is plenty of incentive not to spin just because it will kill your race.

Help stop it by removing the tow/reset. As has been stated, iRacing cars are more difficult to drive and more fragile than GTR/PNG/GTL. The best comparison is with GPL, and it has been mentioned that in the early days of UKGPL, it was the removal of the reset that finally cleaned up the racing.

[Paul968]

Yes, it might help, but I don't see it having the same impact. In GPL shift R was your friend and you could up and racing seconds after a fatal crash. Here the same crash dooms you to being at least a lap down if not more. It wouldn't change the way I drive, or most other imo because a tow isn't much better than being out. At least if you are out you can do something else!

[Ken Murray]

Yes, it might help, but I don't see it having the same impact. In GPL shift R was your friend and you could up and racing seconds after a fatal crash. Here the same crash dooms you to being at least a lap down if not more. It wouldn't change the way I drive, or most other imo because a tow isn't much better than being out. At least if you are out you can do something else!

Yes, agreed, but it might be worth trying with resets removed just as a social experiment. Just to see if we are being influenced by some subconcious phenomina, eventhough our logical concious thoughts tell us a tow is as good as being out of the race anyway.

[spanner]

I dont understand why people think removing the reset will solve it. I cant imagine anyone going into a move thinking 'well I've got a reset if i muck it up'. If you do tangle with someone then your going to be at least a lap down, your massively dissadvantaged and your probably running on your own for the rest of it. So i can kinda understand TT's view where he doesnt use it.

It's a one make series, the cars arnt easy and seems to amplify the difference in everyone as the field can be spread by quite a margin. Any advantage is likely to be in the tenths over the next person that its going to be virtually impossible round a tight track to use it and would likely need a risky move. You dont have much spacial awareness around you and the wide angle mirror is very deceiving. I find i'm alright defending from someone if i can see them in the mirror as they are behind but as soon as someone tries something i'll just move out the way because once they along side you have no idea whats going on.

[Ken Murray]

I dont understand why people think removing the reset will solve it. I cant imagine anyone going into a move thinking 'well I've got a reset if i muck it up'. If you do tangle with someone then your going to be at least a lap down, your massively dissadvantaged and your probably running on your own for the rest of it. So i can kinda understand TT's view where he doesnt use it.

It's a one make series, the cars arnt easy and seems to amplify the difference in everyone as the field can be spread by quite a margin. Any advantage is likely to be in the tenths over the next person that its going to be virtually impossible round a tight track to use it and would likely need a risky move. You dont have much spacial awareness around you and the wide angle mirror is very deceiving. I find i'm alright defending from someone if i can see them in the mirror as they are behind but as soon as someone tries something i'll just move out the way because once they along side you have no idea whats going on.

Totally agree with the spacial awareness comment, but again nothing unique to iRacing. That is how I approach any sim racing, if you can't see the car behind he is very likely to be alongside you. On Tuesday I could have tried to block Paul in to Druids near the end of the race, but I lost him in my mirrors, there was only three laps to go anyway and I was still on for a podium. All those thoughts quickly ran through my head and so I just stayed wide and let him through!!!

I also acknowledge that the current tow is as good as being out, but as I mentioned, it may be worth trying just to see if we are being influenced by something in our subconcious.

[Legzy]

When someone totally new turns up to a ukgtr2 race, they tend to be a bit rubbish & are offten a bit of a moving obstacle. But while it might lead to the odd incident, usually it's no big deal because of the general experience level of others with the sim.

In iR we've got a massive % of drivers new to the sim, some experienced iR drivers not making enough allowance on track for the inexperienced drivers (yet are shocked when things get messy). A lot of iR cars are difficult to judge 'closeness' to other obstacles, yet we've not only picked two of the hardest cars... But we're shocked when things go wrong on tracks like Brands & Summit!

Jumping on the no resets band wagon is not the answer.

Shoot me if I'm wrong.

NOTE - Just to clarify, I'm not blaming anyone... Just saying there are too many factors involved to think removing the single repair option is going to solve all the problems.

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

To be honest my practice session end up very messy as once at that stage I'm trying to find my maximum ability at every corner and often I exceed that in practice.

My first few laps tend to be very messy but after that I try to build up speed in each turn gradually, so that when I've overcooked it I don't actually go off, just run wide, lock a brake and so on. It's an enormously useful skill because in a race you cannot afford to go off if you want to do well (unless you're a super alien ) and if you can't read the car and work out when you're overstepping the mark without going off in practice you'll certainly not be able to do it in the race when there's so much other stuff going on.

It's a skill you'll need to race in real life too, where the cost of an off can be inifinitely higher than it is in sim racing.

[Kerr]

To be honest my practice session end up very messy as once at that stage I'm trying to find my maximum ability at every corner and often I exceed that in practice.

My first few laps tend to be very messy but after that I try to build up speed in each turn gradually, so that when I've overcooked it I don't actually go off, just run wide, lock a brake and so on. It's an enormously useful skill because in a race you cannot afford to go off if you want to do well (unless you're a super alien ) and if you can't read the car and work out when you're overstepping the mark without going off in practice you'll certainly not be able to do it in the race when there's so much other stuff going on.

It's a skill you'll need to race in real life too, where the cost of an off can be inifinitely higher than it is in sim racing.

That looks bad when you take it out of context like that but as I said I practice until I'm safe, then push the boundaries only to pull back to a safe level for the race.

Over the races I have done here other than the Skip race at Silverstone last season I've not made many mistakes.

I did get 10 incident points the other night but 8 were other cars spinning into me, one I just touched the grass and to my defence my one off was not bad.

I was up the inside of Brendan and got on the power too early for my tight line. Fully aware that if I tried to correct to the over-steer the likelyhood would be I would turn into Brendan.

In my attempts to avoid an accident I just allowed the car to travel in it's own direction to roll safely on to the grass and wait for a safe gap to pull back into.

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

That looks bad when you take it out of context like that but as I said I practice until I'm safe, then push the boundaries only to pull back to a safe level for the race.

You're a super alien though.

[Brendan]

Any chance we can have a stickied iRacing thread with maybe the top 10 things to remember when racing.

If so, I would like to add.  If you spin, both feet in. 

My own incident which unfortunately caught Darren out was caused by my trying to retain control on the grass.  Had I braked hard and let the spin come to it's natural conclusion, I could've rejoined in a safer fashion.  By braking, the spin at least carries on in a straight line and makes it much easier for following drivers to predict and react.