UKGPL Season 19 (2010) Graduates Cup (67) - Monaco (1929-71) - Apr 11

[EvilClive]

Yes I agree Steve, it is our "system" of introducing new blood that we need to address not the lack of experience of the newbie, as I'm sure that they are doing the best that they can. Monaco was one circuit where I would not have wanted to make my 67 debut for sure  

As for  novice and amateur servers in 67, that would be ideal, BUT only if there are sufficient numbers in each class to produce reasonable grids.

Unfortunately the reason why we have a single 67 race, is because numbers for 67 races dropped to a level where 2 races of 4 or 5 drivers was just no fun for anyone. However if we could get enough interest to generate two grids of 10 drivers then .... who knows??

[Hristo Itchov]

I too feel a bit sorry for our new member.  Perhaps a little more advice and guidance and a little less criticism may help our newer drivers.  It's not the easiest thing to drive after all, and very bloody daunting the first online races.  I still get nervous after few years of doing this.

Nobody criticized anyone before the race, but I will not spare criticism against the new driver or the management. It ruined my race without any fault on my side and was something that could have been easily avoided had more consideration been done not to run a merged field at Monaco nor let the driver debut at Monaco.

What's the point of preparing and turning up for races when you (and others, potentially) are taken out like this and it affects your whole Championship. I didn't join the Graduates division to race with newbies who don't even use their mirrors...

I still hope the mods would consider a rerun.

[Hristo Itchov]

I've no wish to anticipate the moderator's review of the two Hs incident but in HH's defence and having watched the replay several times I have to say that blame for the incident does not seem to be entirely one sided. As has been said many times, the most important element of safe overtaking is patience and choosing the right moment.

If you really watched the replay you'll see me stepping totally on the brakes to come down to the backmarker's speed, which was nearly half the speed at which you'd usually go through at this part of the track (the run up from T1 to T2). Not only that, but I cruised behind, showed myself on the right side, and was hoping he/she would've seen me by then.

Only someone who doesn't use their mirrors, doesn't listen to engine noise and doesn't pay attention to blue flags (he/she got at least 1) wouldn't have seen me. That's why I went, carefully, on his/her ride side, but he/she just turned right over the crest and sent me into the barrier which ripped my wheel off.

Sorry, but I don't expect and I'm not going to cruise at half speed for half a lap just because someone has zero experienced in GPL and doesn't use their mirrors. Is this Graduates division or what?

[b_1_rd]

I too feel a bit sorry for our new member.  Perhaps a little more advice and guidance and a little less criticism may help our newer drivers.  It's not the easiest thing to drive after all, and very bloody daunting the first online races.  I still get nervous after few years of doing this.

Nobody criticized anyone before the race, but I will not spare criticism against the new driver or the management. It ruined my race without any fault on my side and was something that could have been easily avoided had more consideration been done not to run a merged field at Monaco nor let the driver debut at Monaco.

What's the point of preparing and turning up for races when you (and others, potentially) are taken out like this and it affects your whole Championship. I didn't join the Graduates division to race with newbies who don't even use their mirrors...

I still hope the mods would consider a rerun.

I agree H, it is frustrating, and especially so to you fast boys!  However, I don't think it could have been predicted to the degree that the lack of speed and newbie ability would affect this race.  I'm sure the mods will review, react and advise on the best way forward in due course.  Hindsight is always 20/20.

It's not the first as sure as heck wont be the last time a back marker has decided a championship.  I think you of all people can turn it around and make best of the challenge this can now present in the remainder of the season. It might even be fun! Thanks heavens it wasn't the deciding race.



Has anyone PM'd Hannah with a suggestion of joining Nov's?  Joining a UKGPL pick-up race to gain some experience? The poor guy/girl may now be scared to come back and not know where to turn next.  I'll be more than happy to try and help where I can with my limited knowledge of driving and vast experience of being lapped!  At risk of treading on toes I'll send a quick note now, but they perhaps could do with more sound advise and guidance from the more GPL educated amongst us.

[Phil Thornton]

For the record there were only 4 privateers so it was MY decision to run a single grid so please don't criticise the new driver; it was not his fault.  Anyway we always intended to run one grid if the numbers were low that is why both races are the same length and both are PRO rules.  Everyone knew that at the start of the season.  We normally assess new drivers and advise those without much on-line experience to enter the Novices.  Unfortunately in this case it doesn't appear to have happened.  I need to check with Vos (he is running the division but isn't back from hols until the 18th) to find out if Hannah was checked out before the start of the season.  I didn't know anything about Hannah before last night.

One thing is for sure, there couldn't have been a worse race to make a GPL debut.  PRO rules at Monaco in the 67s with Aliens at every turn must be the hardest race there is.  

Please submit incident reports as you see fit but please no more newbie bashing; it was my decision - complaints to me please.
 

[Podkrecony_Ziutek]

Well I don't think that this race should be rerun, just because few drivers were unlucky to crash because of one backmarker.

I do think that something should be done to prevent this kind of situations. My proposal is that every new driver should be tested by one of mods, or other driver elected by the mods. During this test our new driver needs to prove that he/she is able to drive safely in the race.

Hristo, I know that you're quite frustrated, but please next time when something bad happens to you remamber this:

As a general rule, chat is not allowed during league races, except after all drivers on track have passed the chequered flag. This applies to both qualification and race sessions.

Your's moaning about rerun was very distracting, and few seconds later I had no wheel. I'm not saying that it was your's fault, but please next time just shut up.

[Billy Nobrakes]

Mixed grids is a bit of a dilemma.
I would much rather run on a split grid where the racing is more evenly matched and the faster guys don’t have to trip over backmarkers.
Nevertheless the simple fact is 29 drivers are signed up for the 67’s but there were 15 on the starting grid at Monaco. (This may be partly due to assorted holidays and injuries and also that Monaco is a rather challenging track ). We do however need to encourage both new drivers and those drivers that are on the books to turn up and race. If the 67 league becomes to elitist it will dwindle to nonexistence.
Peter suggests a '67 Novices grid with Shift R ~ perhaps something to think about.

For my own race I’ve spent a couple of weeks trying to find a set up that was reasonably controllable. Managed to get a 1.33 lap on Saturday which didn’t seem too bad (if you ignore Hristo  / FMG in the 1 min 25S / 26’s). Was half expecting several absences so just crossing the start line would be worth a few points in the Privateers.   

Tried to allow plenty of room for the fast chaps to pass me easily – points wise we were in a different race. Only gripe I do have is with Bob Whitwell where his overtakes were (in my opinion) rather rash and & in the wrong places. Going into the hairpin at Virage and a few laps later in Tabac. I would have happily let him by on the straights. First incident I got clipped and span – it’s a nasty place to do a 3 point turn with one eye on Prib hoping nobody else would be coming round the corner at speed. Anyhow I’ll have a look at the replay before putting in a report.

Managed 20 laps before coming to grief into the chicane. Should have exited the race immediately but took me a short while to do the “oh bugger” and then confirm I really had lost a wheel rather than for it to miraculously reappear from the hay bales. (That doesn’t happen on Pro settings).

Thought I’d take the master class and watch FMG for the last few laps. Looked like a first race win for Black Night Racing was on the cards until his engine blew in the tunnel. Technically I did win the Privateers but coming fist out of four doesn't feel much like a victory.
Bad luck FMG and well done to the finishers – 34 laps at Monaco is a real challenge. 

[Hristo Itchov]

Well I don't think that this race should be rerun, just because few drivers were unlucky to crash because of one backmarker.

I do think that something should be done to prevent this kind of situations. My proposal is that every new driver should be tested by one of mods, or other driver elected by the mods. During this test our new driver needs to prove that he/she is able to drive safely in the race.

Hristo, I know that you're quite frustrated, but please next time when something bad happens to you remamber this:

As a general rule, chat is not allowed during league races, except after all drivers on track have passed the chequered flag. This applies to both qualification and race sessions.

Your's moaning about rerun was very distracting, and few seconds later I had no wheel. I'm not saying that it was your's fault, but please next time just shut up.

Sorry for the chat, I reacted emotionally out of frustration. It's still bothering me and I hope the administration learns a good lesson from this fiasco.

[kinghiro]

I there a practice server available?  It would be very useful to practice race against humans.

I agree... an idling practiceserver for upcoming race if thats possible.I would go there instead of practice offline and then maybe someone else show up too .gplracer seem to have one up at all times...  

[Rick Nauman]

I've no wish to anticipate the moderator's review of the two Hs incident but in HH's defence and having watched the replay several times I have to say that blame for the incident does not seem to be entirely one sided. As has been said many times, the most important element of safe overtaking is patience and choosing the right moment.

If you're talking about me I take issue with your judgment that I was impatient.  Like Hristo I slowed tremendously after being jinked going up the hill.  Silly me, I assumed a blue flagged back marker was letting me by at an obviously good place to make that happen.  But I wisely refrained from attempting that pass and followed HH right up to the Massenet curve where he clipped the curb and checked-up to a near stop with me 15ft from his tail pipes.  You have to remember I had no idea just how much he was struggling to simply drive the car.  I didn't have any idea who he was or how bad his skills were.  I've made lots of passes around back markers (and have been the back marker many many times) but this was no ordinary back marker!  And don't forget there were guys chasing me.

So, OK, it's not totally his fault for being in a race he should not have been in.  But at some point he should have deduced how much trouble he was having and causing and just decided to give it up.  The fact that he didn't tells me it was possibly his first ever online race and he thought it was all just for casual fun.

...so please don't criticise the new driver; it was not his fault.

So is it safe to assume HH's gender is male?  Not that it matters but it would be nice to know which pronoun to use.

Though it may not seem like it here... I'm really over this.  Looking forward to Donington where I will be driving from a hotel room if I make it at all.  That's another reason some mid-week practice races would be useful.  I'd like to know if my connection is going to be adequate.

[maestro57]

I did win the Privateers

Congrats on the win Bill.

In Privateers you in 2nd place and Black Night Racing holding First place in the series.
 

[Michael Turner]

I've no wish to anticipate the moderator's review of the two Hs incident but in HH's defence and having watched the replay several times I have to say that blame for the incident does not seem to be entirely one sided. As has been said many times, the most important element of safe overtaking is patience and choosing the right moment.

If you're talking about me I take issue with your judgment that I was impatient.  

I was referring just to the HI incident that started this particular ball rolling and the fact that HH seems to be trying to follow the racing line (as marked on the track) which on this particular stretch moves from side to side.

Anyway, I hope that HH isn't put off by all these comments, gets in plenty of practise over the next fortnight and joins us at Donington.

[Statmeister]

Allow me to distract you from the serious debate with some more of my pointless stats.

For this week's random stat, we looked at which active Grads driver gave the best 'bang-for-buck' last season or to put it another way, who got the best points return for the least token spend?   




Onto the latest Monaco race & another poor turnout from the Privateers means the Rookie competition will have to wait until we get some more entries. None of the Privateers made it to the finish, however both Billy Nobrakes & Bookie still managed climbs of 7 places from their starting slots. Here's the updated tables for the Privateers




In the Works results, race winner Evil Clive also took the Monaco consistency prize with an average deviation of 0.720 over 34 laps (ave laptime 1:29.729) while Full Metal Gasket did enough to move to the top of the leaderboard. Incidentally a perfect score for this race would have been 170 (that would be the score for 0.00 deviation in laptime over 34 laps) so considering the traffic-congestion of Monaco Evil Clive's 145 points was impressive.

Baab claimed the high-climber award after making up 7 places on his starting position & also climbs to the head of both that table & the Rookie competition.



N.B. a consistency score of 0.00 means that a driver was outside the 5 second average lap deviation cutoff - details of how this all works here

[Billy Nobrakes]

Thanks Statmeister. Can't make my mind up if the data irrelevant or fascinatining but, as you say,  a bit of light relief from the fall out of Hurricance Hannah.
If I send you the data for the Spec Race comparisons can you publish in one of your fancy tables?
... Billy

[Statmeister]

Thanks Statmeister. Can't make my mind up if the data irrelevant or fascinatining but, as you say,  a bit of light relief from the fall out of Hurricance Hannah.
If I send you the data for the Spec Race comparisons can you publish in one of your fancy tables?
... Billy

Haven't I got enough tables to post already!?

I'm sure we can come to some agreement (if the price is right). I'll email you