iRacing Season 3 Star Mazda - Sebring (International) - May 4

[popabawa]

Hmmm.. I'll admit I didn't think about the black flag possibility for not lining up properly 

Maybe an alternative is to keep the double file start with extra bonus penalties for T1 contact.

[Adam Parle]

Maybe an alternative is to keep the double file start with extra bonus penalties for T1 contact.

 

I guess the next question is what sort of penalty?  A position penalty is worthless if the person at fault quits the race, so it's got to be something that impacts the next race for them.  A 2-5 place drop on the next race results?

[Burtoner]

Can't say I like the idea of trying new start procedures in a league race, that's something to play with in fun/test races.

Yep.

I'm more in favour of keeping things as they are - but drastically increasing the penalty for daftness at the start of the race.

I've never viewed T1 as an opportunity to gain places, I'm looking to get through, get into single file, and then get racing.

Thats what I said, bit like GPL modding, 1st lap incidents cost more, than incidents in race!

[Dan Minton]

The problem is the overly aggressive attitude of certain drivers!!!  Trying to go into T1 at Sebring 3-wide is asking for trouble on any lap, especially on lap one when everyone is running on racing fuel and cold tyres.  Also, people need to realise that the position of the cars around us is not fact just an approximation. Until we ALL realise this and allow the cars around us more room we will always have these problems...

Fair enough 3 wide in to T1 is not sensible but... if you look at the start i didnt get a good jump and 2 cars pulled along side so by the time we got to the corner we were side by side .  Maybe i should have rolled off but what if John rolls off aswell and the car on the other side of me , You end up with 3 cars saying "after you " "no after you" which would cause havoc for others behind.  
I just think is was one of those things that happens SOMETIMES, 2 cars in the same place at the same time.  A few people seem to be talking as if it happens all the time which i totally dissagree !
We didnt seem to have any problems witht he Indycar even though we were entering the first corner at a much higher speed.

Yes if this happens 2 or 3 races in a row then i agree there is something going wrong big time and people should be singled out and penalised.   I totally understand people being annoyed and frustrated when they have put alot of time and practice i do myself .

Would be a real shame to have a single file rolling start as i dont think there is major problem , to be honest i think a standing start would be better as then we get to the first corner at a lower speed.


John ..not your fault we just got to close, more of the fault would probably lay in my hands, Maybe i should of lifted a bit and slotted in behind.

[ross.mcw]

I agree with Dan.  Looking at the replay it just looked like a relatively small issue that in this case just happened to cause a number of cars to spin out - unfortunate, but it just looked like racers racing to me.

A couple at the front did seem to end up too close to each other and ideally that should have been avoided, but the end result seemed to me to be unfortunate circumstances rather than deliberately erratic or aggressive driving.

Personally, I'd prefer to go with standing starts and heavy penalties for those at fault on L1 incidents where unnecessary and avoidable contact has been the result.  If that doesn't do the trick, then I guess something else needs to be done.

At the end of the day, we're here to race - even though it's virtual - trying to make it ultra-safe in T1 will probably only shift the issue to the next corner.

Cheers, Ross.

[Ken Murray]

I can confirm that sub folders work in this build at last, but not in the previous build

Does it only work for one level down from the car folder then? I just thought I had mine in a track subfolder, then the setup builder name subfolder after that. Do you think that might be mine doesn't work. I will try again tonight.

OK, got it working, but it seems the setup will only work if saved to the sub-folder within the game. But I can't see a way to create sub-folders in game. So you must create your sub-folder structure in windows in advance and any setups downloaded and used for the first time must initially go in the main car folder before saving them to the subfolder of your choice in game. Workable but tedious. Would be better if you could just put them where you want in windows.

[Simon Gymer]

to me to be unfortunate circumstances rather than deliberately erratic or aggressive driving.

Absolutely Ross, never said there was any erratic or malicious driving.

We do know however that if we can change the situations that people get into then these things occur less. This is why we went to single file rolling starts in GTR2 and by spacing people out we take them more out of the situations they get themselves into on lap 1. Once racing is underway there really isn't much you can do in the procedure, but we can do something about the start that isn't penalising anyone it's just changing the situation for everyone.

I don't believe it shifts anything to the next corner if you space out the start, if anything as the lap progresses more and more spacing occurs and each corner becomes safer until everyone is pretty much in position and ready to race normally. It makes things more sedate and gives more time for everything to happen.

No one is saying we're going to race perfectly without mistakes or without competition, all we're trying to do is space people out at the start so that we get off better than we have been to allow for more racing for the other 99% of the race.

I would hope it's not a problem "introducing" a new start procedure (standing start + single file) because most of the drivers here already have experience of it from other series at SRou. Pit limiter isn't an issue, we just follow at the pace of the guy in front. 75mph in GTR, which seems fine for here too in the two cars we're running this season.

[ross.mcw]

I'm happy to go with whatever's decided to be honest - it just seemed a bit like this thread was trying to erradicate the racing part of the racing!   (I do know that's not the intention though!)

Cheers, Ross.

[Blunder]

All good discussion guys....

If I go back to my original questions prior to the race!...

I think with any new sim or car/track combination we all need 2 or 3 races to get familiar with the car and racing close...

We had this with the Indycar and the Skippy ( I'm just talking iRacing BTW )

What I was proposing was trying to find ways to ease us all in!

So unlimited resets and rolling start say on race one!?

One reset and standing start on say race 2

and no resets and standing start on race 3 .....

See what I mean? then we get an opportunity to get it wrong a few times while we all learn to race these new cars in close proximity and then go back to 'proper gentlemanly racing' as is the strength of this forum and all of us!

 

[popabawa]

Sorry Martin, I just can't see any real benefit by having resets.

I want everyone to treat each potential spin/crash/screwup like it will end their race and drive accordingly, i.e. within their limits, not right on the edge.

We're all capable of driving 40 minutes without incident if we approach the race with the right attitude.

[mr_oily]

As always - happy to race whatever format you think's best Pops but while we're discussing it, I'm with Dan and Ross on this one.

People are going to crash regardless of how much we sanitise the starts. Poodling around for a clumsy lap to reach T1 at a greater speed than we would otherwise isn't the answer IMO. I have agreed in the past to the rolling approach but only when getting big powerful cars off the line and grip is the issue. With the Mazda it couldn't be easier.

I think we should stick to standing starts and penalise heavily those who are clearly at fault for causing incidents on lap one (at least a 10 place drop).

I can't believe at this stage that anyone really thinks they can have any kind of incident without ruining their own race, and for that reason I think we just need to avoid knee jerk reactions, rack up as much experience as possible with the cars and penalise anyone taking the mickey heavily.

[Simon Gymer]

I don't think it's a knee jerk reaction because this isn't something new that just happened for this race and we have experience from many years of organising league races that have shown us certain things.

You can say the Mazda's are easy to get off the line, but there are some drivers that react so much quicker on standing starts than others that it creates situations we'd all be better off if they weren't in, because instead of having a nice spaced field you get people overtaking on the grass, 4 abreast, all on cold tyres aiming for the same bit of tarmac when your mind hasn't got that focused yet and your periperhal vision is not that great to be trying to work out where everyone is exactly.

We've had rolling starts in UKGTR for a very long time because we discovered over time that it was the best solution to create an environment where the race could get underway with fewest incidents whilst not stopping any competitive driving then or later on. All it does is create a more spaced approach to the start, it doesn't stop overtaking.

Whilst I'm on that subject, I'd like to reiterate that you don't need to overtake or be overtaken to be having a competition!

I'm not saying that means I don't try and overtake, utter rubbish as this is a competition of course it is, but you can't go around dive bombing and racing so hard that only half the field is finishing. It's pathetic that only between 50% and 80% of us are finishing races and we should all be ashamed of the fact that the finishing rate is not nearer 90%-100% (ignoring disconnections or PC crashes).

New cars, new tracks, new game is no excuse. If you can't drive at the pace you're trying to yet then take your foot off the accelerator! I didn't manage any practice for that Mazda race and qualified with a lap I could manage and no faster in 14th. Yet I finished 3rd with a fastest lap way down on the top 2. Why? Cause I accepted that I wasn't ready to go that fast yet and decided it was better to drive slowly but comfortably over trying to go faster than I was ready for. That's the sort of mentality that everyone should be aiming for as that is what SRou was about.

The problem is that if it continues like it has been then you will lose more people like me because we're not going to turn up every week just to be divebombed at the first opportunity, or taken out at the start by someone that doesn't know the meaning of letting off the throttle, or wrecked by some hotheaded person that refuses to drive patiently or safely. We can get such uber-competitive driving elsewhere and that is not what SRou was about.

And I know I've posted a lot on here, but it's because I feel very strongly that we're in danger of losing the foundations upon which this league was built. Uber-competitive driving is creeping in too much and personally that's not why I joined up.

[picnic]

And I know I've posted a lot on here, but it's because I feel very strongly that we're in danger of losing the foundations upon which this league was built. Uber-competitive driving is creeping in too much and personally that's not why I joined up.

Here here, well said that Shark

[Truetom]

Me too.

[Blunder]

Me too

Look at my racing record on here, I pride myself in minimal dnf's!
Which is why I get frustrated when I get taken out!