Season 19 - Mid Season Review

[Phil Thornton]

Season 19 - Mid Season Review

It is time for another Mid-Season review so we can canvass opinions from you, the drivers, on what has gone well and what hasn’t.  The list of Agenda items is below.  Please feel free to comment on these items or indeed raise new ones. 

ITEM 1 – The Divisions

Amateurs – Stick with chassis allocation or adopt a handicap system similar to the historics?  It would probably mean the leader of the championship drives the Brabham BT7, second place the Cooper T77 etc.   Effectively the groups used to seed the drivers would become the groups to which drivers would be assigned by virtue of their championship position.  Are the race length and damage models acceptable?  A 50 minute race seems popular.  Are people still happy with PRO rules or do we want to go back to allowing shift Rs provided the perpetrator does a Stop and Go?  Has the adoption of PRO rules improved driving standards?  Is anyone fed up with putting in a lot of praccy just to be taken out on lap 1 with no chance of a reprieve?  Should be have a rule where the bottom 3 are automatically relegated to the Novices?

Novices – Similar chassis allocation issues to the Amateurs.  Assume race length and damage models are OK?  Do you want the same track selection as the Amateurs or are you happy to run with alternatives to the difficult tracks (e.g. Westwood instead of Schottenring)?  Should be have a rule where the top 3 are automatically promoted to the Amateurs?

Historic Trophy – Mature division with no major problems except lack of numbers?  Happy with PRO rules and race length?

Graduates – Numbers are a bit down so we have used one server several times.  Would moving to Intermediate damage improve the numbers?  Would it be feasible to run the Works as PRO and the Privateers as Int damage?  What would happen if we had a joint grid?

Spec Races – This has been quite popular although the numbers have dropped in recent rounds.  Any suggestions for improving the format?


ITEM 2 – Servers

We are now renting server time from our friends at Team 7.  Has appears to have been a success, has anyone had connection problems?

ITEM 3 – Moderating and the Appeals Process

Is everyone happy with the moderating and appeals process?

ITEM 4 – Rule Changes

Are the rules as they stand OK?  What changes need to be made? 

The only area of concern has been slipstreaming and the practice of trying to break a tow.  There are long standing rules with regards to weaving but these are intended to stop blocking, particularly in the braking zone.  However they can be applied at any point on the track so it is possible to contravene the “blocking” rules long before the braking zone is reached.  Moving off the racing line and back on once per straight section is allowed without contravening the “blocking” rules.  If we were to decide that this constituted trying to break a tow and was not to be allowed then the blocking rule would have to be amended otherwise we would have an inconsistency.  Do we need a formal rule on weaving (if so we would need a clear statement as to what constitutes weaving first) or is the current gentleman’s agreement that we don’t weave to try and break a tow adequate?

It has been suggested that we should align ourselves with the current FIA rules on "defensive driving" published in Appendix L of the FIA International Sporting Code Regulations specifically Chapter IV, para 2 sub para b (on page 17).  The problem with this is that real racing rules are ambiguous and in the real world the FIA and the Teams employ expensive lawyers to sort it out.  Ideally we need a simple unequivocal rule that everyone understands.  The statement "they may move off the line and back onto it only once per straight/section" in point 4 of the Etiquette rules is very clear but not perfect.  In some circumstances this rule can be interpreted in such a way as to allow a driver to gain an advantage but is this a widespread problem? 

Perhaps one solution would be to amend point 4 in the Etiquette rules to read something like "If a driver is driving defensively they may move off the racing line to take up a defensive line but may not move back onto the racing line whilst on the same straight/section".  That would be a simple unequivocal rule and would effectively make weaving impossible, but would this be too restrictive?  It would still allow a driver to exit a corner not on the racing line, move onto the racing line and then back off again in the same straight.  The current rule has been with UKGPL from the outset so it is not something I want to change without considerable thought and a poll showing the majority of drivers being in favour. 

ITEM 5 – Tracks

We can't promise to make everyone happy but are there any tracks you would particularly like to see in Season 20?  If so which mod and why?

[b_1_rd]

I'm happy with just about everything, as is.

My only small area of issue is that when a race has been moderated, unless you were involved in an incident that has been ruled upon, there is no notification that the race results have been finalised.  It would be nice to know what the final results were without having to search back through weekly, to see if and when the result is official.  A small post 'moderating complete' or something along those lines within the race thread would highlight that it's all done and dusted (pending any appeal of course!).

Other than that, everyone does a fine job to create some great entertainment and I very much appreciate their efforts.

[miner2049er]

A small post 'moderating complete' or something along those lines within the race thread would highlight that it's all done and dusted (pending any appeal of course!).

Good idea, we should do that, and I used to but stopped for some reason. Probably laziness.

[Al Heller]

I’ve long been in favour of the 65's adopting a similar handicap system to Historics. I feel it’s by far the fairest system & think it would work much better than the current chassis allocation. I also like the idea of a sliding scale of chassis handicapping based on championship position (presumably champ leader gets BT7, then Cooper etc, down to bottom drivers Lotus/Ferrari?) 

I feel chassis allocation is a bit of an inexact science & as we see each season is open to much dispute & discussion. Some people might find it unfair that they are given a slower chassis - others might get miffed because someone regularly faster than them is given a quicker chassis. But a system based on your championship postion cannot be argued with. (Perhaps we could use the previous season’s championship positions to allocate chassis for the first round too?)

I think it would also help maintain interest during the season; someone who has missed several races & is languishing at the bottom of the table might be able to take a Lotus/Ferrari for a few races & get themselves right back into championship contention. Also regular non-alien racers might be more motivated to turn up if they were fighting for the occasional podium place rather than 7th or 8th.

Looking at Am’s, the first 5 races (with the absence of H) have been pretty much dominated by Tim & Clive, who it’s fair to say have been considerably quicker than the rest of the field in their BT11s. Under the current chassis allocation system, the mods will presumably slap them into Coopers at some point & there they would stay for the rest of their ukgpl career (or at least until they learn the errors of their ways & slow down a bit!) My selfish side might start rubbing my hands at the prospect of nobbling the fastest drivers, but having been allocated the BT7 for half a season in Novs, I know it’s not the ideal solution! I guess the holy grail is a system that allows close racing, makes it harder for one person to dominate but still ensures that the best racer wins the championship on merit & for me handicapping does that much better than chassis allocation.

[vosblod]

A small post 'moderating complete' or something along those lines within the race thread would highlight that it's all done and dusted (pending any appeal of course!).

Good idea, we should do that, and I used to but stopped for some reason. Probably laziness.

Agree a good idea, will make a note to post.

As regards Al H's 65 chassis suggestion it sounds fine to me. I might hesitate though when it comes to the Novices; it's probably better for them not to have to chop and change chassis race by race while also being on a big GPL learning curve.

My comments on issues raised;
65's - on the basis the top 2/3 this season move up we are getting to a situation where the Am's are bulging and Nov's depleted. Ideally there would be an intermediate division as the gap feels like a chasm to mere mortals like me. Numbers probably won't make that viable so maybe we should have 3 up / 3 down (or 2). Perhaps only counting in those that have attended 5 or more races?
If we don't do something the danger is the Nov's could die out or evolve into an intermediate league which might put potential new drivers off joining.
I also like the idea of tougher tracks for the Am's, for the same reason re attracting new drivers.

67's - I would be ok if we did Works PRO and Privates INT but that won't be practical as long as we can't guarantee enough attendence for 2 grids. Also, if we could guarantee 2 grids, differing track choices might be an idea to attract people in.

Rule changes - I would go for the suggested change as long as we keep it simple.

[Turkey Machine]

The only thing that needs changing is Ams chassis allocation.

Tim and EvilClive have proved that they are king with a BT11. I proved once or twice last year that I was OK with it and that merited a Cooper for me for S19, go figure. Mitigating circumstances have meant that I can't exercise race pace with the Cooper as often as I'd like, but I quite like the chassis, even if it's a bit slow.

If #1 took the BT7, #2 took the Cooper, then #3 and #4 had a choice between the BT11 or Honda that leaves anybody else with a free choice of the Lotus, BRM and Ferrari. Similarly to Historics, anybody taking a chassis better than their position means they become liable for a pitstop penalty which is calculated according to your ability and the length of the track (e.g. Hristo in a Honda would have a 20 second penalty + 15 at Zandvoort).

[Hristo Itchov]

(e.g. Hristo in a Honda would have a 20 second penalty + 15 at Zandvoort).

Pfft

I agree with the rest and I've been saying it for the past 2-3 seasons but it kept landing on deaf years - the chassis allocation in AM are very demotivating. Historics, which adopted the system from former Masters, works great, as expected.

I also miss the pitstops system in D1, because (as I've mentioned it before) the current rules go against teams running a single slower car. The results don't show the real situation because it's the lack of competition that's making it seem different than it would really be if we have a full field.

The track choices seem very good this season and I'm unhappy that I couldn't make The Ring and Schottenring, so I hope to see them next season as well.

[miner2049er]

65s

I thought about the changing the chassis allocations method this season to a more fluid one based on championship position, but I don't like it on a personal level as it means my already limited practise time is spent in several different chassis which doesn't help me, but the better Amateurs can be quick in any chassis given a few laps.

However, seeing as more and more people are suggesting it we may have to try it next season in Amateurs but I would still want to keep allocation the way it is in Novices to make it easier for the newer drivers and it seems to be a much more evenly spread division that way.

I like the idea of having a promotion/relegation scenario with the top 2 going up to Ams and the bottom 2 going down to Novs but those going up should be given free chassis choice for race 1 and maybe even race 2 then their championship position can dictate from then on.

Any Ams going down to Novs should be given at best a BT11.

We would have to think about what would happen if there were any Ams not wanting to drop down or any Novs not wanting to go up. Perhaps we would have to enforce it or maybe allow 3rd place to go up instead and force the driver staying in Novs into the slowest chassis as an incentive.

I would be an example of that though I think, because if I compete in 65s next season I would have to stay in Novices as I host them and wouldn't be able to join the Amateurs server.

The main problem in Ams of course is that if the mod is not done in time, people may be driving the wrong chassis for the next race, and what do we do then?

[Podkrecony_Ziutek]

ITEM 1 – The Divisions
Graduates – Numbers are a bit down so we have used one server several times.  Would moving to Intermediate damage improve the numbers?  Would it be feasible to run the Works as PRO and the Privateers as Int damage?  What would happen if we had a joint grid?

I don't think that intermediate damage is good idea. Privateers were made not for people who don't know how to finish race, but for people who aren't fast enough to race against aliens. IMO everybody who's going to race 67's should already know how to race. If someone is new to simracing and want to try 67's, thats ok, but first I would suggest trying Novices. Thats a great division to learn how to race.

When we have one grid for Graduates, Privateers and Works should have separate qualification. That might be good thing because with such a big speed difference sometimes it's almost impossible to made clean qual lap. At circuit's like Monza or Spa it's not a big problem, but on twisty tracks where passing is difficult(like on Monaco or Mosport) it is a big problem.

I know that GPL doesn't allow to run two separate qual sessions, so maybe we could made it twice longer. first part would be for Privateers and second part for Works.

ITEM 4 – Rule Changes

Are the rules as they stand OK?  What changes need to be made? 

We should have anti-weaving rule.

I also miss the pitstops system in D1, because (as I've mentioned it before) the current rules go against teams running a single slower car. The results don't show the real situation because it's the lack of competition that's making it seem different than it would really be if we have a full field.

The best thing in Graduates is lack of handicapping. If some drivers decide to use one of the slower chassis for whole season, that their own choice.

If She doesn't allow you to drive proper car, than better leave her

[G Jonsson]

First of all, as a hole I am happy with things here at UKGPL.

I think the selection of tracks is good, at least in the Ams, I miss the longer tracks in Historic, but maybe it would have been good if the longer tracks in Ams were a bit more spread out during the season.

Pro rules yes, of cause in the last Ams race at Schottenring I surly would have liked to have the shift-r opportunity but the pro rules rules in my oppinion. Maybe even put in a need to be classified to get points at all but, well, I am hesitant about this.

Server connection has been fine, well something odd happend at the Monaco Historic race when Q level got sky high and everybody went missing fore a while but all came back, so I guess it was just a temporary thing.


I think that the chassis allocation has it`s benefits in that it allows you to get used to a chassis but, as we have seen this season in Ams when Tim and Clive got the BT11 and just left the rest of us behind, it`s too square, (I don`t know if that`s the right expression). So I think a handicap system would be better in general because it`s inflicted race by race. It is also predictable, you know what is comming.

But then I have some problems with the order of cars. IMHO when it comes to the 65 cars the order ought to be Lotus, Ferrari, BT11, BRM, Honda, Cooper and BT7, I don`t know why the BT11 has so low ranking here.

The idea about moving up to Ams and down to Novice, well, the moving up thing is one thing but down??, at least it has to be done in consensus with the drivers involved I think.

The only thing I am really critical about here is that the Moderator`s Report takes so long time to come out. This season we have only two for the Ams and none for the Historic so far after five races. For me, being new here, it`s educational to read them so please educate me.

Göran

[maestro57]

My thoughts are
Divisions
Amateurs – Don’t race this Div (one day maybe) but would go with handicapping as a good idea if the aim is closer racing.
Novs – Div works well, so leave as is. Stay with better known/easier tracks and do not match Ams.
Historics – Race this occasionally, though well out of my depth as seems to generally attract the really experienced/fast drivers.
Grads – I am personally put off doing many of these, due to a combination of Pro Rules, choice of harder and/or longer tracks, length of race and the speed differential (or it could be I can’t drive them very well). I would prefer to see same or similar div split and rules as 65’s with a separate grid for slow and fast drivers. I would also recommend make the tracks/calendar for the 67 Novs the same as the 65 Novs so Nov’s can learn one track and run two divs.
Spec Races – Enjoy being forced to drive other cars. For me, some fun has gone out of it due to it being a championship. At the beginning, I think it was a race to go to while the Aliens were off doing inter league races, i.e no pressure.
Servers
Have not had a problem with the server
Moderating
Seems to work well to me
Rule Changes
Leave the rule as is. All rules are open to interpretation what ever is written down.
For me general principle is you don’t do something that is likely to cause and accident. Therefore you shouldn’t weave back and forwards to stop an overtake manoeuvre from happening.
Weaving to break a tow is OK as it’s not dangerous to other driver(s).
Tracks
Not a fan of very long tracks. Probably only because they take too long to learn

[happyal]

Nothing really to add, everything seems to be working well.

I would be in favour of introduction Pro rules to the Nov races, unless we get some real novices drivers, as most of the racers now have been racing for a least 1 season.

[FullMetalGasket]

I'm generally happy with the way UKGPL is running at the mo.
Undecided about the handicapping system in Ams, I quite like being stuck with one car all season although being put into the BT11 has been an unexpected bonus as I feel it is a much faster car than the baby Waza, so this has slightly failed to handicap myself and Clive 
As strange as it seems I was almost looking forward to being stuck in the Cooper next time around if I keep my current performance up!
Very happy with the inclusion of longer and trickier tracks, there're only so many times I can face the same old 11

Happy with Grads TBH, the pit stop system was good but I'm liking the added challenge of devising tactics regarding what car to run where....
For the most part I don't have a major problem with mixed grids, but do agree with Hristo's point that it's not really helping either group of drivers.

Historics - Happy but would like some more of the longer/more challenging tracks. That and to do better 

Spec races - loving them! Billy deserves a medal or something 

T7 server has been fine for me and am happy with the rules as they stand.

New tracks - happy with nearly anything tbh, the more fun it is the better (did I hear Targa?  )

[EvilClive]

I have to admit that I was VERY surprised to be given the BT11 in Ams. Whoever thought that having BT11 is a step back from the Honda I had last season, obviously has not tried the Honda!!! lol ....but I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth  .  Bet I suffer next season now .

I'm in favour of different circuits as I too get bored with the same old 11 Pappy tracks.

Grads is good, but I really enjoyed the pit stops and the added tactical element it brought to the races. It also tended to add some spice to the ends of races as the time handicap worked its way through.
Running the Honda all season, does render the token system irrelevant as far as we Wazas are concerned, so can't really comment on how it works for me.
The single grid for Grads does throw in probs re the speed differential from pole to last on the grid. I can see that it is just as frustrating for the guys at the back having to constantly allow the leaders to pass them. They must spend most of the race gazing into their mirrors rather than racing??!!! But two grids of 5 or 6 cars will surely spiral down to 3 or 4 and loss of interest...and extinction???

T7 does seem to have been a good move..its a shame we dont have either the numbers or finance to run 2 such servers.

Happy with Historics and the handicap system, although it does occur to me that if one is consistantly succesful, you are going to get the same chassis choice for every race?? ask Hristo about that one. 

The Spec races are an amazing success . I have to admit that they are far better supported than I would have expected them to be, not sure why...but if we can apply the same magic to the other mods, then maybe numbers will increase everywhere.??

The rule change debate seems to have been sparked by my moves at Mexico in Ams. I would maintain that there is a distinct difference between moving off line to limit the tow and weaving to prevent a passing move. Any rule change IMHO is going to have to be very clear
as to where the difference lies and how it is interpreted.

[FullMetalGasket]

Some idea's for tracks - some I've driven and enjoyed, others have been recommended to me:

Long ones:
 Brno 49 or 65
 Dundrod (I need an excuse to learn it!)
 IOM abridged 
 Pescara
 B&W werk? (the fact it's in black and white may put some off, I intend to try it tomorrow!)
 Targa (but no real way to 'race' in the normal sense  )

 Bathurst (Not sure if it really counts as 'long' in this company but a damn good laugh)

New short ones:
 Falkenburg (great circuit for racing on line - my own intro to GPL's on line aspect back in 2004)
 Pebble Beach (tricky but nice)
 St Jovite (needs no intro)
 Wigram (apparently very good for an Airfield course)
 Blue Mountain (fantastic circuit)
 Maybe Rock Island (Viper) or Pacific raceway?

More interesting circuits  :
 Hump back
 Super Slot Car
 Moon