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  • S19N Mosport: June 15, 2010
June 15, 2010, 09:39:39 PM +0100 - Mosport - UKGPL Season 19 (2010) Novices Trophy (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
vosblod
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 2 +0.153
---
1 49:59.072
---
34 1:26.930
---
Dunlop  
maestro57
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 5 +0.459
---
2 +28.306
---
34 1:27.464
---
Goodyear  
maddog
 
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 3 +0.304
---
3 +50.193
---
34 1:27.127
---
Dunlop  
roguk
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 7 +1.578
---
4 +52.405
---
34 1:28.212
---
Dunlop  
norbert
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 8 +1.627
---
5 +1:17.436
---
34 1:28.093
---
Dunlop  
Billy Nobrakes
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 6 +1.363
---
6 (+3) +1L
---
33 1:28.433
---
Goodyear  
NHance
 Mountside Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 1 1:26.277
---
7 +0.337
---
33 1:27.484
---
Goodyear  
happyal
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 9 +1.935
---
8 +41.679
---
33 1:28.930
---
Dunlop  
James Andrew
 
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 11 +3.975
---
9 +3L
---
31 1:30.322
---
Dunlop  
Ross Neilson
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 4 +0.313
---
10 +8L
---
26 1:27.238
---
Dunlop  
Nigel Smith
 
Honda RA272 F1 1965 10 +2.232
---
11 +28L
---
6 1:29.816
---
Goodyear  
5 UKGPL
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 12 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

Mosport always throws up plenty of incidents and spins, and places can often be picked up here just by keeping it on the road.

Drivers love to spin at Mosport, particularly at Moss where incidents can easily occur. Drivers losing control and spinning can often be well advised to allow their spin to finish and come to rest before trying to rescue their spin and perhaps affect other people's races.

Tim steered clear of trouble to make it his 3rd victory of the season at a track he knows well but he is still not leading the Championship as the other top Novices are having consistent results.

This season looks like being a nail biter, but who will tame the debuting Wigram and take a lead into the last 3 races?


Server replay time: 0h36m50s

Billy recovers from a spin and rejoins the track.
He takes straight to the racing line in front of NHance who has no chance to avoid him.
NHance had seen the yellow flags and could see Billy rejoining but could not expect him to drive straight back across the track.

By the letter of the law Bill made an appallingly bad rejoin even though NHance asked for some leniency. NHance was clearly visible as the single car behind even without having to use the side view or F10.

  • Billy Nobrakespenalty — Appallingly bad rejoin — 3 places lost


Server replay time: 0h45m12s

MHunt passes RogUK before they pass the green flag.

Both drivers have just passed a yellow flag being waved which means that there must be no overtaking until they either pass a green flag or pass the incident and the green flags have been taken in as per the rules at the bottom of this page

https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/sporting

As they can both see a green flag being waved ahead of them, they must wait until they pass it before there is any overtaking allowed.


Server replay time: 0h48m15s

MHunt tries to pass RogUK on the inside.
RogUK turns in on Martin slightly but realises he is there and turns out, losing control.
MHunt also loses control but keeps going.

The Server shows no contact or suggestion of warp.

Martin had no overlap at turn in and has not won the corner so he must keep to his own side of the track rather than stray to the middle.

Although the server shows no contact, cars in GPL all have "collision boxes" which are bigger than the cars themselves. Perhaps Martin would have been better advised to wait for a more clear cut overtaking opportunity rather than try to outbrake RogUK while turning right over the crest where the car will tend to lose some traction.

Any overtake at Mosport must be well planned in advance, particularly between cars of similar performance.

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 19 (2010) Novices Trophy (65) - Mosport - Jun 15  (Read 7364 times)
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maestro57
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2010, 10:25:51 PM +0100 »

Qually’d 5th with a PB so very pleased. Grin But fantastic pole time to Norm, congrats

Off the line OK and big thanks to Bill for holding his inside in T1 while I was on the outside as he had shot off the line from 6th and came up level with me.

Got past Martin for 4th after he went off the corner at 5A on the 1st lap

First few laps or so I kept spinning at 5A as well. Lucky for me it was always a complete 360 and staying on the tarmac. It was odd as I was braking as normal and the car would just rotate on entry into the corner. No idea why.
Anyone any ideas? Huh

Then spent 10 or so laps watching Vos disappear into the distance, and Norm and Ros
battling royally in 2nd and 3rd. They must have been slowing each other down in their battle as I started slowly closing in on them hoping to join their battle and have some time closely racing with other cars. But not to be. Sad

Around Lap 14 Ross spun which caused Norm to slow to miss him. As I was far enough back from the incident I could guess a good route through to pass them and kept the pedal to the metal and roared past and into 2nd

After that it was a case of continuing at a steady pace as I couldn’t match Vos for lap times. I was pulling slowly away from the cars behind so concentrated on staying on the track and running at a safe pace.

Became a bit lonely  for nearly 20 laps, but a 2nd is good as far as I’m concerned. Cheesy
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maddog
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« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2010, 12:40:51 AM +0100 »

I've been told that racing drivers can be a suspicious lot, which sounds to me a load of rot!  Nonetheless,  I was careful not to offend the Mosping Gods, who live behind the hairpin at Mosport.  Perhaps some fellow racers have felt their unforeseen forces?  So naturally, I did my best to quell them, by offering up a sacrificial poem on this thread before the race - wrote nicely, and crossed my fingers!

So, what was my reward - my bump stops fell off as the race started!  This came to my attention, approaching the hairpin on lap 1, and only I was singled out on that lap!  Highly mysterious!  Highly embarrassing, to those who don't understand these phantoms of latency?  Highly suspicious that everyone avoided me, without a similar fate!  An unhappy start from 3rd on the grid. Sad 

For some time thereafter, I had to sneak my way around the track, under a smokescreen, and tiptoe up to the bedeviled hairpin, so as not to be noticed.

Competing from the back, I soon realized how devilishly fast the BRMs can be, and then spent many laps
chasing after Norberts possessed Ferarri.  But then, the track Gremlins started to work their way into
everyones machinery, and somehow I'd sneaked up to 3rd, with 3 laps left. 

I'd read somewhere, I'd need to spin round 3 times to lift this kind of hex.  So with 1 spin left, I chose
wisely - only how Roger managed to avoid me at the hairpin, I know not.  Probably some magical talent he possesses.  With some difficulty, I still managed 3rd at race end,  and I feel this was at least some reward, for all my efforts, on everyones behalf. Wink

So be warned, and be careful not to spin your wheels too much, when grass cutting at Mosport. It's not a good thing to do.


P.S. My sympathies Maestro.  So I was not alone - I've a couple of theories here. 
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2010, 01:56:02 AM +0100 »

First few laps or so I kept spinning at 5A as well. Lucky for me it was always a complete 360 and staying on the tarmac. It was odd as I was braking as normal and the car would just rotate on entry into the corner. No idea why.
Anyone any ideas? Huh

You're probably braking too late and deep into the corner, not getting off the brakes on time as you turn in with the steering. Try to brake early and flick the steering wheel into the corner and lift up the brakes at the same time, then apply a bit of throttle and balance it with the throttle and steering (opposite lock if necessary).

Basically you need to be off the brakes before the apex and be on the throttle.
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EvilClive
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« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2010, 08:32:20 AM +0100 »

Also at 5A, which I believe is what I term the first element of Moss, the problem is usually one of the suspension bottoming out.

What Hristo says is good advice, but it might help a little if you appreciate what is happening and why GPL punishes you for your actions Wink. Because if you give GPL the opportunity it WILL take it.

If you have your spring rates too low, and/or not enough bump stop dialled in... and you approach the "dip" too fast... and you are still braking at the bottom of the dip, basically your car has zero suspension left to compensate for the sudden increase in pressure.
And yes, GPL models the reaction.
The result is that the car is bounced up, just at the point where you need some serious grip to aim for that blind crest and get lined up for Moss and a clean exit onto the straight and you lose control just when you need it most. Either you clout the armco, or if you miss that you will spin, or career off onto the slippery Canadian grass, or arrive at Moss totally as a passenger with no hope of making the apex.
As Hristo says, break early and pick your line to the apex and the crest..get OFF the brakes before the bottom of the dip and even use some throttle to stabilise things as you traverse the dip.
You will be amazed just how quickly and smoothly you can get  through that section when your car stays ( more or less) under your control. I cannot claim to get it right 100% of the time, but I do know that when it is right, I can gain a huge amount of time through this section.
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miner2049er
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« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2010, 09:18:19 PM +0100 »

Please help me out where possible by reporting your race incidents using the link at the top.

Crashes, Stop n Go Penalties etc.

Oh, and how did you all feel about the slightly longer race length this time?

Was 40 minutes or so enough or did the 50 minute race make for a welcome challenge?
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happyal
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2010, 08:58:06 AM +0100 »

I enjoyed the longer race, didn't notice that it was longer at all.

I didn't save my reply, but I can't recall anything that I'll have to report Smiley
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Ross Neilson
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« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2010, 10:17:38 AM +0100 »

Hi Mike,

I thought the race seemed a little longer than usual, that said I got disco'ed 6 laps from the end anyway so it didn't really affect me. Personally I would prefer to stick to what we've been doing so far this season rather than making them slightly longer.

Regarding the incident reports, I had a blown engine mid-race and took my SnG immediately, do I need to report myself for that?


Ross
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miner2049er
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« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2010, 01:19:58 PM +0100 »

Personally I would prefer to stick to what we've been doing so far this season rather than making them slightly longer.

I suspect most Novices would feel the same, but tnow they have tried it at least. Wink

Regarding the incident reports, I had a blown engine mid-race and took my SnG immediately, do I need to report myself for that?

As long as you took a Stop n Go then no, you don't.
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maddog
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« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2010, 10:09:50 PM +0100 »

When it comes to race length, I think opinions may vary, from driver to driver, and from race to race.

With the unfolding of events on Tuesday, I was, umm . . . spellbound from start to finish.  Whereas, on
another day things might've been different.  So I'm not sure either way.

Looking at the bigger picture, with Novices touted as an introductory series at UKGPL, keeping our races shorter is likely to be less daunting to newbies on-line.  On the other hand, if we're simply new to their repertoire, then longer races might seem attractive to them.  We've plenty of grid spaces to spare - send out the market researchers!  I was put off on-line racing for years because I was slow, and because full GP lengths were in vogue.

Maybe a compromise would work?  Keep things as now, but befuddle us with an occasional lap stretcher, in preparation for later combat with those fabled warriors of Amateur status.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 12:43:03 AM +0100 by maddog » Logged
maestro57
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« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2010, 10:35:54 PM +0100 »

stick with shorter races
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vosblod
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« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2010, 11:21:33 PM +0100 »

stick with shorter races
seconded

https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=post;topic=5133.msg93319;quote=93319;sesc=7ddd41f0b56eec35b584a18abcbf3ad5
I currently hold the record as the slowest driver so if you find yourself at the back of the grid you'll see me there  Cheesy
Cheers
If you wait around long enough.  Wink
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 04:39:03 AM +0100 by vosblod » Logged
Statmeister
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« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2010, 03:46:56 PM +0100 »

Good race for Peter Maestro - taking a win in the consistency stakes & equal top in the high climber award. RogUK hangs onto the lead in both overall.




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miner2049er
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« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2010, 08:45:56 AM +0100 »

Mod report published.
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