Season 4 - The Plan

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

Because nobody intends to crash, so it happens anyway.

They why draw the distinction between fault/no fault when deciding whether a reset is allowed?

[Kruger Enge]

To reset or not to reset... A quandary that is not likely to be resolved any sooner than the chicken or the egg one.

My personal opinion: no resets + harsher penalties for people causing accidents = more cautios driving for everyone.

The downside of this is the disappointment of retirement after putting in fair amount of laps in preparations for the race but, I find that emotional bit one of the strongest aspect of racing simulation.

Sometimes I feel it for days after the race and it makes me want to do better in avoiding and not causing accidents.

Anyway, as Simon (I think) said, we're talking about races involving experienced sim racers so crashing into someone should not occur that frequently anyway.

[Paul968]

Because the reason people want a reset is mainly to give themselves a 2nd chance if someone else messes up, especially when it is early in the race.

[spanner]

The unstoppable force and immoveable object come to mind reading this thread lol

[Paul968]

I'm fighting this for you m8! Feel free to take over whenever you like 

[spanner]

No no carry on your doing a sterling job!!

Though it has deteriorated somewhat, hope those handbags arnt too damaged. I'm not sure there is a person in this world that could successfully argue against Dave on anything!

Having resets or not doesnt change how i drive or approach things, we still get incidents in races and to try expect there to be none is very nieve with the limited awareness and knife edge like limit at times. People will only try to overtake if they feel they can make a successful move and that decision will likely be made in split second.

The no resets seems to be being used as an entry requirement, if you feel you need it then your not good enough for the league. Yes i'm not good enough but you cant stop me joining tho

[Legzy]

My problem is with fast reckless drivers using resets.

Don't worry mate, you are nowhere on my Fast Reckless Drivers List

lol, no offence taken at any point here mate & your above post is the kind of thing that makes us a stronger more fun community in my eyes. It's exactly the kind of banter we enjoy on TS regularly. Would be great to hear a few more warped minds on there, I think you'd fit in

[Legzy]

I'm not sure there is a person in this world that could successfully argue against xxxx on anything!

Spanner, normally as we get older, kids grow out of the "Why?", "Why?", "Why?", "Why?", "Why?" technique.
I can't believe the level of patience that Paul has continued to show in this thread.

What shocks me is that the three people currently most responsible for shaping UKiR, all think that if a reset is available they would instantly turn into kamikaze drivers. I've been driving with two of them for over two years & while I'm no psychological expert, personally I'd rather give them all the benefit of the doubt.

In summary, this whole thread has turned into a discussion over a preference of some people with a fear that drivers with the ability to reset will drive differently to drivers with out that option. There is zero relevant evidence that this is true. Yet that is for some bizarre reason out-weighing the increased enjoyment, fun & sense of special occasion for at least some of your drivers. But so what, we're so sure that not even going to trial it in one of the next two series.
 

Anyway, I see no point in commenting any further.

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

Having resets or not doesnt change how i drive or approach things, we still get incidents in races and to try expect there to be none is very nieve with the limited awareness and knife edge like limit at times.

But spanner, that's exactly the problem - you cannot go into a race thinking "I must be on the very edge of my abilities at every moment" because if you do, it's inevitable that you'll crash - and most likely take somebody else with you. If you haven't found where the limits are in practice, and/or aren't prepared to back away from them a fraction in the race so that you've actually got something left to race other cars and not just your own, having a single reset only adds a second crash to your race.

What shocks me is that the three people currently most responsible for shaping UKiR, all think that if a reset is available they would instantly turn into kamikaze drivers.

We haven't been saying that at all. All we've been saying is that the persistent overdrivers tend to lean on the resets, and we think they do better when we take their training wheels away and rebalance their risk-reward ratio to match the gentleman racer ethos we prize here.

[spanner]

you cannot go into a race thinking "I must be on the very edge of my abilities at every moment" because if you do, it's inevitable that you'll crash

I never said i do, and i never said i go in assuming i'll crash either. I was just trying to say that i'm not sure if people do change the way they drive with resets or not.

For me its not about though clearly other people think differently. I try and make sure i get in a rythym and make sure i try and do the same thing on every lap. I dont drive agressively, i have a relatively smooth driving style compared to some, but Im not a racing driver i cant do it millimeter perfect and occasionally will perhaps be to gingerly on the brakes, carry too much speed in and go off trying to keep it on. What probably doesnt help are habbits i've carried over like trailing the throttle under braking which actually seems to be opposite to GTR and cause understeer.

[Simon Gymer]

There is zero relevant evidence that this is true.

You see what you want to see I guess. I can see why you want the resets and I can sympathase, but like others, I feel it is more beneficial to the group as a whole to not have them than to have them. I hope they implement damage repair at some point, but I also hope they never implement fixing unfixable things. If you rip off the entire front end of your car it should not be repairable and for things that are fixable you should have to limp round to the pits to get it repaired, not have some magic alien spacecraft take you back to the pits.

three people currently most responsible for shaping UKiR,

If you're talking about me in that three, I'd like to say for the record I AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE ADMIN TEAM. I do not make any decisions for UKiR. The UKiR Director is wholley responsible for the UKiR series and always has been. I believe Gizmo has a strong influence regarding what he wants to be allowed to happen at SRou, but despite also weighing in with his opinion he leaves it to the directors of each game/series to run them how they see fit. I notice the Friday Night series that Oily has setup will be using resets, which as you know I'm against, but it's ultimately up to the director so whatever they decide we all need to live with. I, just like any other member, can put my opinion forward and any influence I have is only as another experienced sim-racing member of SRou.

[Paul968]

If you're talking about me in that three, I'd like to say for the record I AM NOT A MEMBER OF THE ADMIN TEAM. I do not make any decisions for UKiR. The UKiR Director is wholley responsible for the UKiR series and always has been. I believe Gizmo has a strong influence regarding what he wants to be allowed to happen at SRou, but despite also weighing in with his opinion he leaves it to the directors of each game/series to run them how they see fit. I notice the Friday Night series that Oily has setup will be using resets, which as you know I'm against, but it's ultimately up to the director so whatever they decide we all need to live with. I, just like any other member, can put my opinion forward and any influence I have is only as another experienced sim-racing member of SRou.

That was not my experience when I was a mod Simon

[ross.mcw]

Why not let Oily's series run it's course with resets and see how that goes.

Just for the record, I've actually reversed my original view and am happy with no resets now.

Like Simon says, what's really needed in iR is proper damage/fix modelling that's more life like.

Cheers, Ross.

[Simon Gymer]

That was not my experience when I was a mod Simon

I think this might be a leading question, I'll bite...wasn't it Paul?

Just remember I've been pretty anti iRacing, even now. If it was left to me we still wouldnt be doing hosted racing as it's not where it needs to be to do us real justice and iRacing are making a packet from something that should be free and included in everyone's subscriptions. So it's a good job I'm not one of the three who Legzy is referring to as responsible for shaping UKiR. If I had to guess who they were it would be Gizmo, Pops and you Paul.

[Paul968]

I don't know about now, but when I was involved you often chipped in with your opinions on the iR mods group.