iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10

[picnic]

Interesting chat about methods of cheating going on here

I was reading the iR forum's section on telemetry and people are arguing there that various data (e.g. wheel speed) should not be made available in realtime as it would allow people to produce software that could implement things like traction control and abs. Having a trick gear selector where one does not exist seems like the same thing to me.

[Simon Gymer]

I didn't use a macro, I simply mapped a button for the clutch. Then I pressed that at the same time as the shift button. It worked for every single gear change. When I tried to do a keyboard macro thingy in the Logitech Profiler I couldn't get it to work at all in game. I would assume that's how people without a clutch pedal have to change gear on the old-fashioned non-sequential boxes anyway?

The reason I didn't continue with that was that with the G25 it meant I had no buttons left for "look left" so I could choose between having no visibility on cars to my left or find a different solution.

I'd rather do it "as intended", using technique, which I'm trying to learn, but if I can't get it working 100% of the time I will need someway to actually change gears 100% of the time. It's not enjoyable driving a car when you can't do something as basic as change gear as you're not steering, braking or accelerating when all you are doing is fumbling for gears at all the corners.

None of this turns drivers like me into aliens like Jeff btw. You don't turn mediocre drivers like me into fast drivers by allowing them to change gear, it lets them be the drivers they were before, nothing more.

I'm not trying to gain a lap time advantage by shifting perfectly, I'm trying to change gears full stop. I don't care how slow the gear change is as long as it does it.

P.S. There is a storm?

[popabawa]

This isn't new information though Pete, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle on this one.

It's no different to GTR2 etc., being able to macro-assist pit-stops or the whole code injection thing.

I think the difference is that this kind of manipulation probably didn't affect us too much in GTR2 as we only really ever raced each other, here, we're part of a wider community so it's much more visible.

I find this kind of thing life-affirming, people are SO inventive

BTW, my 'official' position on this is that if people want to 'macro assist' then so be it, I can't stop it and I'm not entirely sure I'd want to anyway.

I think it would be nice if people were open about it (as Shark is above), we can share information and people can decide for themselves.

Oh and it leaves me well-stocked with fresh new excuses! 

[popabawa]

I'm not trying to gain a lap time advantage by shifting perfectly, I'm trying to change gears full stop. I don't care how slow the gear change is as long as it does it.

Why not just turn auto-clutch and auto-blip on?

[Simon Gymer]

Why not just turn auto-clutch and auto-blip on?

Because it uses the clutch on up and down shifts which means you have to lift on the up-shift because it doesn't auto-lift off too. I find lifting very un-natural with a flappy paddle gearbox. I can do it, but I don't like it. I also find the blip on the down shifts to be quite extreme (100% throttle I think it is) causing the car to get quite upset on the downshifting, especially whilst cornering, but maybe that's just my incompetance.

As I said, I would rather do it as intended, using technique, which is what I'm practicing at, but I don't normally get much practice time. People are moaning that they only had an hour practice, awww, but last week I hadn't even driven the car before I joined the server, 3 minutes before qualifying, so it's hard to be able to pick these things up when you don't get to practice at all! Switching cars is also more difficult because they all require a slightly different technique.

I was fortunate this weekend to have a load of time to practice and I even did my first public race for over 2 months. IndyCar + Mid Ohio. Still LOVE that car, it's just so thrilling to drive and not worrying about the gear change was very nice. I started 12th out of 20 and finished 9th, so a good result finishing top 10. Was hoping to pick a few more spots up from crashes, but everyone seemed to stay on more than they used to.  

Incidentally, I tried the click-blip, click-blip technique on the Corvette and it didn't work very well. Seemed to work better with click+blip and a much larger blip, but not terribly well. I guess there is a better technique for that car as all the cars seem to need something slightly different (as expected).

The Radical seems quite compliant to the click-blip, click-blip approach so I'm looking ok for this week. Seems very easy to lose the back-end on the Radical round the very fast corners though, so unlike Paul, I'm having to lift in T1 and the last corner too for fear of losing it.

[picnic]

I did include a wink with my original comment I just thought it was interesting that the two conversations here and at iR seemed to be at opposition to each each. One open and accepted, one deemed a route to full on cheating, yet both using similar techniques to achieve similar goals.

[popabawa]

Because it uses the clutch on up and down shifts which means you have to lift on the up-shift because it doesn't auto-lift off too.

I think the Radical (along with most of the other cars but not the Skippy) has a 'throttle cut' so you shouldn't need to lift on the up-shift.

[Simon Gymer]

I think the Radical (along with most of the other cars but not the Skippy) has a 'throttle cut' so you shouldn't need to lift on the up-shift.

With the gear changing aids on, the Radical, like the Mazda, over-revs on up-shifts. This will lead to the engine exploding and sounds ruddy awful to boot.

[popabawa]

...one deemed a route to full on cheating...

iRacing forums, the home of factual, rational debate since 2008...

[popabawa]

With the gear changing aids on, the Radical, like the Mazda, over-revs on up-shifts. This will lead to the engine exploding and sounds ruddy awful to boot.

Ah, OK, I wouldn't know as I'm not cheating lol

[Simon Gymer]

Ah, OK, I wouldn't know as I'm not cheating lol

 

[popabawa]

I think there's a really good case for iRacing to have a good look at the auto-shifting aid behaviour in different cars. Seems ridiculous it engages the clutch for cars that don't require it on the up-shift for example.

[Mike Wrightson]

Incidentally, I tried the click-blip, click-blip technique on the Corvette and it didn't work very well. Seemed to work better with click+blip and a much larger blip, but not terribly well. I guess there is a better technique for that car as all the cars seem to need something slightly different (as expected).

I tried the Vette last night, even ran a race in the fixed setup series  I find it like the V8 to shift, more "agricultural" than the Radical and Mazda, but as long as the timing is right it will go.  I find I am braking longer before going for my first downshift too.

The worst gearboxes of the lot are the synchro boxes in the Mustang and Solstice.  The shifting model is far removed from reality, so I can't drive it the same as my road car.  I find them utterly undriveable without auto-clutch.  To downshift them manually, you MUST use heel & toe, when the whole reason the synchro box was invented was so that you don't have to.

The new transmission model is a good thing on the whole, but it needs some tweaking and synchro boxes need a total re-write.  What also needs tweaking are the shift aids.  Nobody should be placed at a disadvantage just because they don't have 3 pedals.

[Fred Basset]

I'm not overly concerned about macros, I think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup tbh. There's no way to stop it though so I'll let peoples consciences decide... 

Thats the thing, there is absolutely no way to stop it. I've been building a very complex macro to allow both button and voice control of pit stop parameters and more for a few weeks now but have not done anything for the gearchanges. Its a shame as where do you draw the line. I worked out last night how to do a pitlane speed limiter which should be a good thing but am currently debating whether to ever release this.

Regards
Gary

[popabawa]

Server's up!