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Linked Events
  • S19A Watkins Glen: August 10, 2010
August 10, 2010, 11:26:51 PM +0100 - Watkins Glen (Classic) - UKGPL Season 19 (2010) Amateurs Trophy (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Al Heller
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 1 1:09.457
119.233mph
1 49:27.958
117.194mph
42 1:09.980
118.342mph
Dunlop  
Podkrecony_Ziutek
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 4 +0.250
118.806mph
2 +2.376
117.100mph
42 1:10.055
118.215mph
Dunlop  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 6 +0.407
118.539mph
3 (+1) +30.389
116.006mph
42 1:10.164
118.032mph
Dunlop  
G Jonsson
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 7 +0.446
118.473mph
4 +30.810
115.990mph
42 1:10.291
117.819mph
Goodyear  
b_1_rd
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 10 +1.381
116.909mph
5 +31.337
115.969mph
42 1:10.276
117.844mph
Dunlop  
FullMetalGasket
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 2 +0.104
119.055mph
6 +3L
116.503mph
39 1:10.107
118.128mph
accident
Dunlop  
natan5
 
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 8 +0.521
118.346mph
7 (+2) +0.377
116.487mph
39 1:10.010
118.291mph
accident
Dunlop  
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 3 +0.204
118.884mph
8 +9L
117.254mph
33 1:09.797
118.652mph
engine
Dunlop  
Beefpie
 
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 9 +0.607
118.200mph
9 +26L
115.663mph
16 1:10.519
117.438mph
accident
Dunlop  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 11 +2.147
115.658mph
10 +29L
114.341mph
13 1:11.102
116.475mph
accident
Dunlop  
NickyIckx
 Antipasti Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 5 +0.375
118.593mph
11 +40L
111.137mph
2 1:12.562
114.131mph
accident
Goodyear  
2 UKGPL_T7
 
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 12 13 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

SUMMARY

A maiden Amateurs victory for Al Heller in the last race of the season, congratulations Al. Having graduated from the Novices last season as champion, Al has continued to improve and he is now established as a regular front-runner in the top flight. In only his second outing in the Amateurs this season Podkrecony secured a brilliant second place with Göran Jonsson grabbing the final podium slot.


Server replay time: 0h03m04s

Lap 2 – The “90” – Nicky Ickx and Evil Clive

Tim Muttram, Nicky Ickx and Evil Clive are line astern around the “90”. Tim runs wide and puts two wheels on the grass kicking up plenty of dust. Nicky holds his line but doesn’t accelerate as hard as normal to allow himself some room to manoeuvre should Tim loose control. Tim manages to get back on the tarmac without spinning but Nicky’s loss of momentum allows Clive to close up. Nicky is on the normal racing line but Clive is on the edge of the track and has to move right as the road narrows on the exit of the “90”. Clive’s nose makes contact with Nicky’s nearside rear and they both spin out. Unfortunately Nicky hits a post and his car looses a wheel putting him out of the race. Clive manages to continue.

This was only lap 2 of a very long 42 lap race so there was no need for rash moves. The power disadvantage of the Cooper meant that Clive had to stay as close as he could to the cars in front in order gain the maximum advantage from any slip stream effect. Although Clive wasn’t trying to overtake he was trying to stay very close. It is the following car’s responsibility to keep a safe distance and not to move over when there is any degree of overlap. Notwithstanding the fact that he was running out of road, Clive moved over too early so he must shoulder the responsibility for this incident.


Server replay time: 0h47m15s

Lap 40 – Front Straight – Tim Muttram and Natan Vix

Tim is leading through the Esses and decides to stay right along the Front Straight in order to have the inside line for The Loop. Natan has a power advantage in his BRM and he quickly overhauls Tim’s BT7 and draws alongside. At this point Natan drifts right and makes contact with Tim causing a crash that takes both drivers out of the race.

This incident should not have happened. The guidelines and advice are quite clear, a driver should not move across until he is quite sure it is safe to do so which usually means it should be possible for him to see the opposing car in his mirrors. In this case it was even possible to see the nose of Tim’s car from the “look right” cockpit view.

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 19 (2010) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Watkins Glen (GP) - Aug 10  (Read 8486 times)
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FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2010, 10:38:34 AM +0100 »

Is the server replay available for this?
Can't see it in Vos's site  Smiley
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2010, 06:43:20 PM +0100 »

Is the server replay available for this?
Can't see it in Vos's site  Smiley
Replay uploaded you should be able to see it here now (on Mike James' site BTW)

Sorry for the delay, I'm in retirement mode  wheelchair   Wink
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FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2010, 08:03:06 PM +0100 »

Ta  Smiley
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NickyIckx
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« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2010, 08:10:35 PM +0100 »

Quote
Luckily I didn't race last night cause I had my daughter and my grandson at dinner Wink Anyway I don't like to be called idiot in a public forum and I think neither the other guys that had the fault to race you.
Shumy was penalized for his bad move on Barrichello at Hungarian GP and you'd better think on your habit to move over to close abruptly the door, see Rouen and Zeltweg, not the best gentleman driving if you're claiming for that IMO.
Ciao

 Wink sure you are right in calling me inpolite by using the word idiot , but guess racers do know how to handle that ...
but for sure you have to admit , it again wasnt my driving style puts me outa race totally ..
( btw . zero incidents last season I did , so my driving style couldnt be as much bad .. )



quote :
Lap 2 – The “90” – Nicky Ickx and Evil Clive

Tim Muttram, Nicky Ickx and Evil Clive are line astern around the “90”. Tim runs wide and puts two wheels on the grass kicking up plenty of dust. Nicky holds his line but doesn’t accelerate as hard as normal to allow himself some room to manoeuvre should Tim loose control. Tim manages to get back on the tarmac without spinning but Nicky’s loss of momentum allows Clive to close up. Nicky is on the normal racing line but Clive is on the edge of the track and has to move right as the road narrows on the exit of the “90”. Clive’s nose makes contact with Nicky’s nearside rear and they both spin out. Unfortunately Nicky hits a post and his car looses a wheel putting him out of the race. Clive manages to continue.

This was only lap 2 of a very long 42 lap race so there was no need for rash moves. The power disadvantage of the Cooper meant that Clive had to stay as close as he could to the cars in front in order gain the maximum advantage from any slip stream effect. Although Clive wasn’t trying to overtake he was trying to stay very close. It is the following car’s responsibility to keep a safe distance and not to move over when there is any degree of overlap. Notwithstanding the fact that he was running out of road, Clive moved over too early so he must shoulder the responsibility for this incident.
·   EvilClive (65 evilclive) — penalty — Simple Side-by-Side contact — 1 place lost


 Smiley Huh
as my English isn’t that good : what the meaning of `degree of overlap. ‘ ?
in german language direct translation would express that  a single part  of the car was in front , that’s why overlapped situation is established ….

kindly regards
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 08:38:19 PM +0100 by NickyIckx » Logged
FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2010, 09:00:34 PM +0100 »

In this case you can substitute 'Degree' with the words 'amount of'
So, 'Amount of overlap' - hope that helps you Nicky  Smiley
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2010, 08:02:56 AM +0100 »

Overlap is basically two or more cars going for the same piece of road, usually side by side. I think the degree of overlap is how much one car is lined on the side of another.
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Al Heller
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« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2010, 11:25:03 AM +0100 »

Clive's penalty means Goran moves up to 3rd in the race & therefore also swipes 3rd place in the championship from me by 2 points. Oh well, that's racing - congratulations to Goran (and any chance of an appeal Clive? Wink )

There's plenty on the overlap debate here https://www.ukgpl.com/rec_dvr_beh/rec_driver_beh.htm including this bit... (not sure how relevant it is to this incident but I always found this graphic interesting)

« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 11:42:43 AM +0100 by Al Heller » Logged
EvilClive
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« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2010, 10:27:34 AM +0100 »

 (and any chance of an appeal Clive? Wink )


Well....................... I'm awaiting the plain brown envelope in the morning post whistling
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« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2010, 07:40:15 PM +0100 »

 Smiley thx for explanations FMG , Hristo and Al , as well thx to admin for detailed  work , for sure its a time bandit doing those incident report  .
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EvilClive
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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2010, 08:12:18 PM +0100 »

Apologies to Nick for my unintentional contact. I had not saved the replay and until I saw the server replay I could not see what had happened.
 It clearly shows that I was at fault and should have backed off. Sorry Nicky.  Undecided
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« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2010, 06:12:34 PM +0100 »

In the screenshot above , it clearly shows a blue car leading a green car into the corner.

This is very ambiguous and misleading ,  to simplify things and avoid any further confusion I have constructed some new rules which if applied should lead to much clearer understanding of this difficult situation

The new suggested "corner" rules are as follows :-

Any green car automatically has "barging rights" over any other colour car (excepting any other green car , unless of course the green car is driven by a German )

Any White car has precedence over any Red car .
Any Red car has precidence over any Blue car ( unless the driver of the blue car is wearing a green or blue helmet )
Any German driving any colour car has barging rights over every other car regardless of colour of helmet .
Any car driven by anyone called Clive must imediatly move over and make room for all other cars except those drivers with pink helmets.
Any car sponsered by "Pimblets Pies" has precedence over all other cars regardless of any and all of the above rules .

Recent research has shown that by adopting the above rules, this will illiminate (or eradicate ) any doubts about who has right of passage in any cornering situation, thus making  what was always a very complicated and difficult manouver into a simple affair .

As always any further suggestions on this matter will be fully appreciated and should be written on a postcard addressed to :-

GPL OVERTAKERS COMMITEE 
SHOP ONT CORNER
WIGAN
ENGLAND 

P.S.

All replies will be dealt with by the commitee in the usual way



 

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vosblod
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« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2010, 08:21:25 PM +0100 »

LOL Bernie  Grin - or are you proposing we 'vote' on it  Wink
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EvilClive
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« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2010, 10:19:21 PM +0100 »

"Any car driven by anyone called Clive must imediatly move over and make room for all other cars except those drivers with pink helmets"

But if I am wearing my own pink helmet, do I have to make way for myself on the next lap? or do I now adopt German nationality and start eating pies? In which case will my car change colour to become totally neutral and initiate the Klingon ( Bernie Inc. reg TM ) cloaking device at the corner apex, rendering it invisible to all but those in red cars wearing blue helmets.

Does the red stripe on the Wazamobile mean that it is half white and half red?(50/50) or is it more white than red (75/25), and if it does do I have to follow myself or give way to myself, or just back off slightly?


Baffled of Bristol. scared ninja
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 10:21:37 PM +0100 by EvilClive » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2010, 10:36:06 PM +0100 »

Trust Evil to complicate things  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2010, 09:46:23 AM +0100 »

But if I am wearing my own pink helmet, do I have to make way for myself on the next lap? or do I now adopt German nationality and start eating pies?

Does the red stripe on the Wazamobile mean that it is half white and half red?(50/50) or is it more white than red (75/25), and if it does do I have to follow myself or give way to myself, or just back off slightly?

With such combination you're more likely to become a color-changing chameleon that doesn't fit within the rules, lol.
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