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Author Topic: Setup theory and advice  (Read 4560 times)
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EvilClive
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« on: August 14, 2010, 03:24:29 PM +0100 »

There always seems to be a demand for setup guidance in GPL, especially from those new to its delights. So, I have gathered some ( but definitely not ALL) of the various articles provided by racers far more knowledgeable than I and included them here.

I have tried where possible to give the authors due recognition, but if I have missed anyone and they would like their name added please post here and I will add the necessary names.

If you come across articles that you feel might be useful here then please add to this post and perhaps we can help unravel some of the mysteries of diffs and rebounds Roll Eyes


http://www.intothered.dk/simracing/cars.html
http://www.srworld.eu/contenido-4.6.8/cms/front_content.php?idcat=98
« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 03:56:43 PM +0100 by EvilClive » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2010, 06:05:57 PM +0100 »

Well I don't know how many of you heard of it or have it, but GPL Race Engineer has extensive tutorials on car setup in the program's own help files. It's a great read, written by Alison Hine and her brother (I think).
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b_1_rd
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2010, 07:34:06 PM +0100 »

I frequently refer to this:

GPL Foolishness
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Steve

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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2010, 10:55:32 PM +0100 »

I find the setup sheets really useful as a rough guide.
Great idea to post this thread...
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BadBlood
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2010, 08:31:47 AM +0100 »

Chaps,

This stuff is all quite helpful but almost none of it refers to the 65 mod. It is also difficult for a newbie wannabe alien (although with a gpl rank of 229 I am somewhat outlandish). The biggest issue I am finding is setting up the gears - I have heard that the WazaMobile in the 65 should only use the revs between 9 and 11 but other guides indicate that you should be in top revs in 6 to set the gears.

The other thing that is really tough is that if you use, say, Setup Assistant 65 to set the gears and get a nice looking graph - it doesn't behave on track! At Mosport I was exiting Moss at about 45 mph and finishing at about 148 mph - which seemed to compare OK to most other people but everyone blasted past me on that straight - my acceleration was awful. Is that just how I set up the gears, the way I drive, or how I exited Moss?

I think you ought to re-iterate that line and exit speed make much more differnce than the setup as long as the setup allows you to brake without spinning, accelerate without spinning and the steering is reasonably neutral.

Perhaps what I am saying is that you fine gents ought to right a 'definitive' newbies setup guide that concentrates on the basics. And I do mean basic. Lots of the terms go unexplained - so a taller gear - does that mean the number is higher? Easier to accelerate but what is the downside. Why not set nice tall gears for every circuit - that sort of thing. And what the hell do you do with cambers. I was testing last night and my tyre temperatures were equal on the otside and inside and 5 deg hotter in the middle!

Cheers,

P.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 08:37:09 AM +0100 by BadBlood » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2010, 12:32:34 PM +0100 »

Well first off, if your tyre temp is hotter in the middle it is the pressure that needs adjusting, not the camber.  It means the centre of the tyre is more in contact with the track than the outsides so the pressure is too high.  There are tracks that some run with higher pressures though and I actually found Mosport to be one of those.  Don't ask me why, but probably the long straight.

What you have to realise is that everyone drives differently and require different setups, which also change over time as you get faster, what I used a year ago are not what I use now, and I dare say I will be refining my setups further so what I use in a year from now wont be what I use now.

On the flip side, every time you change your setup you have to adjust to it which doesn't always help your time. You will gain much more time concentrating on your driving than making any magic changes to your setup.

There are plenty of people here a lot better qualified than me to guide you in setups but my take on it is to use a base setup, perhaps one of THESE which were published as default 65 setups some time back.  

You are right to highlight gearing though and 65's possibly have the most to gain from getting them working well.  The basic rule of thumb is to set 1st so you can get off the grid ok, then set top so the car redlines at the end of the longest straight, then back it off a couple of clicks to allow for draft, then spread the gears between.  I actually use closer gears further up as the lower gears pull better through the rev range (as explained at the follishness site linked above).  All easier said than done of course.  As you build up your setup catalogue you can pinch gear settings from similar tracks, and for now I'd suggest a similar thing to just that.  Go and download a setup from http://gpltd.bcsims.com/ and use the gearing from one of their setups.

You could just use someone else's setup and press on with that but, for me, messing about with the setup and trying different things is all part of it now.

While it obviously has its place, don't pin too much hope on setup alone.  I am a firm believer in the performance being 90% driver 10% setup; it is important nonetheless so worth reading up on.  Many of the sites linked do focus on 67 but the theory is basically the same throughout.

Good luck.

Oh and for the Honda I use around 12000 RPM to change but I'm sure your Waza Team mates will help with that.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 12:38:23 PM +0100 by b_1_rd » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2010, 03:16:56 PM +0100 »

Paul, most of what you said is true. The 65 Honda, as mentioned before in other forum thread, has effective torque much below the maximum revs it can achieve. I think we discussed it a few weeks ago and Tim Mutram, who is very knowledgeable about it, has given the exact numbers. 12k-12.5k sounds about right.

As for setups, I don't use any graphs and such but go by what I actually see while I'm driving. If it feels better and if lap times go down, then it must be good. I suggest you download and install GPL Race Engineer (GRE), it has a fantastic Help section that discusses setups in great detail. Although it focuses on 67 cars, you can learn a lot about the different setup parameters and how they affect performance.

Here's a link:

http://alison.hine.net/gpl/gre.htm

Oh and BTW, Paul Jackskon's (PJ) 65 setups are really good for starters, they're both quick and stable. I used some as a base for mine back when I started racing 65 more seriously.

Regarding straight speed, it's definitely related to corner exit speed. The faster you exit a corner, the higher your top speed on the straight and the earlier you'll achieve it. The key in overall performance in GPL, especially with these wingless and low grip cars, is to have better corner exits. Late braking matters much less.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 03:29:33 PM +0100 by Hristo Itchov » Logged

EvilClive
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2010, 04:24:52 PM +0100 »

My take on the 65 setup issue is..... Roll Eyes

once you find a 65 setup that feels good for you, simply copy it to the next circuit and try it out. Maybe adjust the gearing if it does not suit and check that the new circuit

I would go along with Steve's suggestion that you take one of the available setups  ( even the default setups provided with the 65 mod are not THAT bad) and start from there. Alter one parameter at a time and drive at least 20 laps. This may seem extreme, but:-
 a) you need to warm the tyres to full working temp...2 - 3 laps
 b) you will need to get used to whatever changes you have made and see where you can exploit any improvement......7-8 laps
 c) you might need to adapt your braking/gear changing/acceleration points to truly get the best from the car....7-8 laps

If of course you are flying into the scenery at every corner without even approaching racing speed, then the change you made was probably not a good one Wink.

I agree with Steve regarding 1st gear being low enough  ( higher number  Wink ) to get you off the grid without bogging down and high enough ( lower number  Grin ) so that you don't spray the contents of your crankcase across the track by over revving. Usually there are only 1-2 ratios that will suit for the start and are useless anywhere else, unless you are restarting after an off, the exception might be Monaco or similar with a few very slow corners.
6th gear ( of 5th in some cars) should be set to be a notch or two back from hitting the red line at the end of the longest straight. If you don't give yourself that margin, and you get a slipstream in the race, the engine will be over stressed and you will suffer Roll Eyes .
I would start by spacing the gears, as Steve has suggested, with the gaps getting smaller as you progress up through the gears. The only thing I would add is that as you get quicker, you might notice a corner where the car is caught "between" gears. Then you have a choice to make  Grin , either take the corner faster to use the higher gear, or can you alter one of the ratios so that you are keeping the engine "in the zone".
SPECIAL NOTE FROM WAZA HQ....Ignore the red line in the Honda, which is somewhere around 13500-1400rpm. Set up your gears to max out at 12000-12200rpm with slipstream ( including downshifts!!! ). The reason being that the maximum torque ( grunt to the non-technically minded) is around 12000 rpm. After that point the engine might go round faster, but does not give you anymore acceleration. In fact, try and keep the engine spinning in the 10500-1200 range and the Honda will pull quite well Grin .
Getting passed towards the end of the straight is more likely to be the result of being slower off of the last corner and giving someone else the benefit of your slipstream, which highlights the need to be clean and smooth out of the corners Wink.

Tyre temps are important in the 65's, because speed carried through corners ( which is dependent upon grip) helps enormously.
Camber will balance the inner and outer temps and pressure will get the centre line temp under control. You will probably need to allow asymetrical setups, so that those tyres that are predominantly on the outside of the corners can be given more camber etc. to control temps. You can allow the tyre cambers to be such, that on a looong straight the inner edge of the tyre gets hotter but the full width of the tread comes down on the tarmac when you turn into the next corner ...thats why you need to run several laps so that you can monitor how they heat up.

here endeth the first lesson...........................now sit back and wait for contradicting advice from 200 other sources  scared lol
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BadBlood
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2010, 11:50:30 PM +0100 »

Thanks chaps - I am humbled.
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