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  • S20N Mosport: October 12, 2010
October 12, 2010, 09:40:56 PM +0100 - Mosport - UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Novices Trophy (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
maddog
 
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 5 +1.341
---
1 (+2) 40:02.417
---
27 1:26.726
---
Dunlop  
Ross Neilson
 Clark-Hill Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 4 +1.114
---
2 +5.751
---
27 1:27.217
---
Goodyear  
vosblod
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 3 +0.970
---
3 +13.054
---
27 1:27.541
---
Dunlop  
roguk
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 7 +1.539
---
4 +16.159
---
27 1:27.767
---
Dunlop  
NHance
 Mountside Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 2 +0.759
---
5 +22.194
---
27 1:26.745
---
Goodyear  
blito
 Nessuna Speranza
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 9 +1.912
---
6 +35.046
---
27 1:28.908
---
Dunlop  
Artiglietti
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 1 1:25.779
---
7 (+2) +42.465
---
27 1:25.896
---
Dunlop  
miner2049er
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 15 +2.624
---
8 +1:00.081
---
27 1:28.732
---
Dunlop  
happyal
 Clark-Hill Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 11 +2.054
---
9 +1:05.377
---
27 1:28.121
---
Dunlop  
Ronniepeterson
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 6 +1.471
---
10 +1:09.131
---
27 1:27.201
---
Dunlop  
Nigel Smith
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 10 +1.938
---
11 +1L
---
26 1:27.590
---
Goodyear  
karlisss
 
Honda RA272 F1 1965 16 +4.147
---
12 (+2) +59.476
---
26 1:29.140
---
Goodyear  
BadBlood
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 17 +4.785
---
13 (+2) +2L
---
25 1:30.483
---
Goodyear  
il_lupo_mannaro
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 12 +2.242
---
14 +15L
---
12 1:27.981
---
Dunlop  
norbert
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 13 +2.242
---
15 +18L
---
9 1:28.483
---
Dunlop  
Billy Nobrakes
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 8 +1.856
---
16 +24L
---
3 1:31.183
---
Goodyear  
norbert
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 14 +2.417
---
17 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  
5 UKGPL
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 18 ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

The opening race of the season always throws up some interesting incidents and this was no exception.

We had one starting from the pit lane and we had Norbert closing his eyes and counting to 10 while we all ran away to hide, but would he find us or not?

This race also goes to show that having speed does not necessarily give you race wins. Actually it also goes to show that crossing the line first doesn't necessarily give you race wins.

If anyone knows why Karliss took a Stop n Go after lap5 please send your answers on a postcard to:

Unsolved Mysteries
UKGPL
P.O. Box 1965


Server replay time: 0h01m20s

Karliss follows PWhitfield into T3 and hits him, spinning him off.
At the point of turn Karliss he has no overlap and PWhitfield was always going to take the racing line and close the gap.

  • karlissspenalty — Simple Ambitious Overtake — 1 place lost
  • karlissspenalty — Lap 1 incident — 1 place lost


Server replay time: 0h01m25s

Paul Whitfield spins off and rather than simply rejoining the track he takes a SHIFT R to get back.
As this was not a free SHIFT R he should take a Stop n Go penalty at the end of the lap.
New drivers should be aware that they should carefully rejoin the track where possible as a SHIFT R has a few consequences.
(1) It drops you straight back on track at a standstill, sometimes on the racing line.
(2) It resets your fuel level and tyre temps to the way you started the race, making you slower for the rest of the race.
(3) If it is your fault, you have to take Stop n Go penalty for every SHIFT R you take.

Advice (see later)

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h04m45s

AA recovers to the track and is getting back up to racing speed but before he has done so he goes straight to the racing line.
Karliss goes to overtake him and can be clearly seen in AAs mirrors but AA moves over and the 2 crash
AA takes a SHIFT R but does not take a Stop n Go.
Karliss takes a free SHIFT R.
Nigel Smith gets caught up in the incident and also takes a free SHIFT R.

AA admits to being "a bit cheeky there" and seems to miss the point in his explanation of what his options were and where Karliss should have gone.

Karliss should have been given the racing line and had every right to it. AA should have lifted if necessary to avoid interfering with a car traveling at racing speed.

Drivers must always, always, always stay off the racing line when rejoining and until they get back up to racing speed.

The 30s penalty is waived as the place punishment is deemed sufficient.


Server replay time: 0h04m46s

Al Baldwin exits moss and touches the grass on the exit and loses momentum but recovers.
Ronnie Peterson is following closely and is slow to react hitting Al.

As Mike exits Moss he sees the dirt kicked up by Al but the incident appears to be over before the 2 cars collide and block the track
Ronnie had already avoided a collision at Moss by backing out of a pass but he seemed to react slowly to Al's error
Mike gets caught up in the collision but has nowhere to go to avoid it
Ronnie takes a SHIFT R
Al takes a SHIFT R
Mike does not

Ronnie is following very closely after backing out of a pass and has already avoided a collision. He has little time to react to Al's mistake and hits him.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h06m50s

Ronnie Peterson tries to overtake Al Baldwin but does not quite have the speed to do it as they approach the end of the straight
Al takes the racing line at the approach to turn 8 as Ronnie has no overlap.
Ronnie should have known Al would take the racing line and should have lifted.
Ronnie takes a SHIFT R with a Stop n Go

Ronnie intended to drop in behind Al having given up on the pass but misjudged the gap.

Al checked his mirrors before moving over and thought he had enough room, but it is always the responsibility of the following driver to avoid a collision.

Only Ronnie was affected and he took a Stop n Go.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h15m50s

Norbert loses control at Moss but recovers and continues.
Ronnie sees him lose control and goes to the inside to pass expecting Norbert to spin wide
He hits Norbert as he turns in.
Ronnie should have lifted and given Norbert the line as at the turn in point he has no overlap.
Having said that, Norbert had lost control of his car and hit the armco making him unpredictable which would let Ronnie off the hook.


Server replay time: 0h20m50s

PWhitfield is being passed by Ronnie Peterson and moves over into him Ronnie takes a free SHIFT R.
Ronnie is clear in Paul's mirrors from Moss and disappears alongside so PW knows he is there and should not have moved over.

Whether this move over was careless or due to the car losing control as it went over the hump is not clear, but drivers must always be aware of what is around them and take care when being passed.


Server replay time: 0h22m28s

Vosblod is lapping P Whitfield
Vosblod goes for the inside but PWhitfield covers that line.
Vosblod moves to the outside but does not leave enough room on the inside and ends up in the middle of the middle of the circuit.
Although Paul hits the kerb and slides into Vosblod, he was not left enough room on the inside.

Only Vosblod was affected.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h23m40s

Vosblod enters Moss1 and gets hit from behind by MHunt.

MHunt comes from a long way back and simply brakes too late giving himself nowhere to go as Vosblod takes the racing line to which he is entitled.
The gap that MHunt had to aim for was always going to close as he was not close enough to have any overlap at turn in and simply arrived too fast.

It is doubtful that this was an attempted overtake and probably MHunt was caught out by Vos' braking, but it is always the responsibility of the following driver to avoid a collision.

MHunt took a Stop n Go following the incident but did not need to as they should only be taken following a SHIFT R.


Server replay time: 0h24m00s

PWhitfield spins and is stuck at the exit of Moss2.
He reverses across the track and over the racing line almost collecting Vosblod.
He should have stayed on the inside of the track away from the racing line and reversed away from the corner before rejoining more safely.

P Whitfield took a SHIFT R but did not need to, so I will use this SHIFT R to offset the untaken one from lap 1.


Server replay time: 0h28m00s

AA is lapping PWhitfield who can see and hear him clearly.
AA goes to the left and can be seen in PWs mirrors but AA moves over into him as he had with Vosblod earlier
AA should stay further left because when they touch they are both in the middle of the track, but having said that the impact is clearly PWs fault.
AA takes SHIFT R with no Stop n Go.

When overtaking a car, either for position or while lapping, it is important to stick to your own side of the track. To stray towards the centre line, even if that is the racing line is asking for trouble. In this instance the driver was being lapped and should have lifted off (without compromising his own race).


Server replay time: 0h32m10s

AA attempts to pass Mike but is on the centre line as oppose to his own side of the track. As they reach the right kink before turn 8 AA is already on the centre line and turns right into Mike who stays right of the centre line.
The 2 cars are running closely together but neither replay suggests actual contact though the cars' collision boxes may have touched.

AA is on the centre line similarly to his other incident 4 minutes earlier which also resulted in a crash.
It is the responsibility of the overtaking driver to execute a move cleanly and to stick to their own side of the track during the move.

The violent reaction of AAs car suggests that warp is involved and is a mitigating factor though care should be taken to avoid inviting a warp incident in the future.

Warp Incident

  • Racing incident

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Novices Trophy (65) - Mosport - Oct 12  (Read 7394 times)
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miner2049er
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« on: October 11, 2010, 08:31:03 PM +0100 »

UKGPL Season 20 Novices Trophy (1965 Mod) Race 1 October 12th

Welcome to a new 65 Novices season at UKGPL and we kick things off with a spin (usually literally) through the Canadian countryside. Mosport is frequently incident packed and places can be picked up here by keeping out of the foliage.

The track was designed and built in the late 1950s, and held its first major race in 1961, the Player's 200, a sports car race bringing drivers from the world over to rural Ontario. Stirling Moss won the event in a Lotus 19. The proposed hairpin was expanded into two discrete corners, to be of greater challenge to the drivers and more interesting for the spectators, at his suggestion, and is named Moss Corner in his honour. This is a source of lingering confusion as many people call the track Mossport. It has had a succession of owners since the original public company created to build the track. Mosport achieved acclaim though a series of international sports car races under the title "Canadian Grand Prix" normally reserved for Formula 1 races. F1's Grand Prix of Canada remained at the track until 1977.
Unlike many historic motorsport venues, Mosport's track layout has remained mostly unchanged from its original form.

For Season 20 the Chassis have been split into 4 groups:
GROUP 1
Lotus, Ferrari, BRM, Honda
GROUP 2
BT11
GROUP 3
Cooper
GROUP 4
BT7

The Drivers have also been split into groups 1,2,3 and 4, and may take any chassis in their seeding group or any car below it, but not above it.

i.e. If you are seeded 2 you may take any car in group 2, 3 or 4 but not 1. If you are seeded 3 you may take either the Cooper or the BT7 but nothing faster. If you are seeded 1 you may take any chassis you prefer.

The chassis that you start this race with will be considered your choice for the season unless the moderator permits or requests otherwise. Err, that's me.

FULL TIME
DRIVER  
 CHASSIS  
Vosblod
3
NHance
2
Miner2049er
3
Il_Lupo
1
Billy NoBrakes
1
HappyAL
1
Gilles27
2
Burtoner
3
Nigel Smith
1
Ronnie Peterson
1
Blito
1
Mark65
1
Artiglietti
1
BadBlood
1
RogUK
3
Norbert
1
Maddog
3

RESERVE
DRIVER  
 CHASSIS  
Karliss
1

Reserve drivers should not join the server until there are only 30 minutes of qualifying left so as to give the FULL TIME drivers chance to join, and drivers are not to go out on track until there are 30 minutes of qualifying left as this helps all drivers join the server successfully.

Please restrict chat to pit messages if necessary, and this includes the end of the race, until all running drivers have completed the necessary laps.

The Novice races are run under Int Long rules and all incidents will be moderated.

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL5
IP address = ping myjamesonline.net
Race date = 12-10-2010
Time = 21:00 UK time
Track = Mosport 67
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = Int
Qualifying time = 35 minutes
Race length = 27 laps
Password: see above

65 Patch: The 2.02 Release of the 65mod can and should be used.
http://bit.ly/bXzLhk

Password: see above
(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page

The track does not need toi be downloaded as it is an original Papy track with the folder name "mosport"
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 09:02:09 AM +0100 by miner2049er » Logged

blito
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2010, 10:39:56 PM +0100 »

Well done to all who raced.
It was great to be back on track again, especially i was able to run faster and more consistant than i had dared hope for! A new PB (over a second better!) in Qual saw me start 8th, and a trouble free (and SR free!) run to the flag saw me finish6th. Very pleased with the result. Top Ferrari and well clear of the Hiki-Waza`s!
The celebratory Rioja is going down a treat Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2010, 11:16:38 PM +0100 »

I'm very cross - Ronnie took me out as I was sliding across the track so Nigel slipped past and then I took Vos out when I clipped the curb and bounced onto his line. Mr AA didn't realise I was going to brake so early for the pit complex and totalled me so Karliss and I had a nice race for a couple of laps and then I span out at Moss twice in succession and that was that - I took a stop n go for taking Vos out but I don't think I needed to. It was hectic. Sorry to Ronnie and Vos, grr to AA (not really). Had a couple of laps racing though and didn't get lapped as much as I thought I would. Even ran tenth at one point and took Nigel and Karliss on the inside at the last turn. That was fun. Got excited though and threw it all away.

Thanks to all.
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2010, 11:18:04 PM +0100 »

Might get a few penalty points or two but at least I can't be demoted  Grin

Aims for the season are:
Not to take out the leaders (Sorry Vos).
Not to take out people passing you for place (Sorry Ronnie)
Complete a race without a shift-r
Finish a race in some other place than last (that might be a bridge too far)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 11:45:08 PM +0100 by BadBlood » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2010, 12:15:16 AM +0100 »

Well third as a Cooperman has to be good. A long race with dices and splices and a sight of the top spot but it was not to be.
Qually - third (I think) was good and anyone that goes into 25's is untouchable - could not even sniff at that when I was also back in the Lotus.
Anyway a compacted version of my race without the benefit of looking at the replay;
1) Ross got the drop on me in lap 1 - naughty boy, team orders LOL
2) Ross wobbles and I inherit the top spot
3) Try as I might, and taking it easy, I can't negotiate past BadBlood and drop a few spots (no issues mate, early doors in online racing)
4) End up 3 or 4 with Martin in my tailpipes. Don't know what happened in Moss but think I'm reared as got a 360   Shocked
5) Trailed into the third spot

All in all pleased as third hits my objective to get something in silverware this season with the Coop.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 02:04:03 PM +0100 by vosblod » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2010, 12:19:17 AM +0100 »

See I told you I might take some weird lines.  laugh

Anyone got an idea of the sort of time that will not embarrass me at Zeltweg - never driven it.
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2010, 12:29:29 AM +0100 »

Sorry Badblood (I guess AA is me...), i seem to remember something about that crash, but I had many, so you are a bit lost in the mix, do remember pushing someone gently out of the road (i wouldnt call that totalling though). Think you parked it in the middle of the track on the straight and then closed the door on the inside quite sharply, so I had factored in some early braking, but not enough. Sorry that spoilt your fight.

Had another close encounter and a dance among the clouds with karliss I think. Had to take a SR, but didnt stop&go, since on the way to the clash I was obviously ahead and had the racing line. Needed to open up just a bit on the outside, otherwise i would have slid slowly but surely into that honda half way down the hill, so I think Karliss was a bit optimistic on that one, also considering he came a bit back toward me to make the corner. Have to see what the mods say though.

Anyway, never ever would have  imagined to be THAT nervous before the start!! I had brilliant pace, no consistency though, made a mistake on lap 2, lost positions, and the head....my racecraft needs some pretty good honing.

Now, on lap 3 or 4 I am waving around like a drunkman before finally chucking it in the foliage. Thats me trying to plug in my pc while racing, it was running out of charge and warning me with beeps like the heartbeat in a surgery theatre...lol, i mean, I think the neighbours kind of realised something wasnt going to plan in my house...

Fun race all in all, but should have got more  considering the speed I had. Really racing online in a championship is a completely different matter!!


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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2010, 09:00:40 AM +0100 »

AA - it was indeed you but I am not really cross - I am, however, a bit embarrassed - I am finding it pretty hard to hold the lines I want and I am surprised by where the car is in the replays as opposed to where I thought I was. I also have no straight line speed - everyone blew past me on the straights - I maxed out at about 145mph at the end of the straight but everyone accelerated much faster up the slope than I could manage. I was really surprised at how hectic I found it so apologies to anyone passing who thought I was driving inconsiderately - it was down to lack of control. Give me a wide berth for a few races.
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2010, 09:36:33 AM +0100 »

Last night was pretty frantic; I think we had five different leaders in all.

Struggled a bit in qually and started 4th, although that soon become 3rd as I passed Vos' underpowered Coop at the end of lap 1. I kept AA and Norm in sight and after AA fell off I settled in for a good fight with Norm. That wasn't to be as he also made a mistake leaving me with a nice gap back to Vos.

About halfway through I went off trying to lap the battling Hondas which put Vos right on my tail. I tried to pull away but almost immediately made a second error, losing the lead. Tim also had Honda trouble which put me back in front, at this point I think Martin had closed right up making it a three way scrap. It was all getting a bit mental!

After a few more laps I had a gap back to Martin but then with 6 or 7 laps left I had another off which let Martin through to win. My earlier scrapes had taken their toll on the poor Brabham as I just could not put in any decent lap times to mount a challenge.

Disappointed to be second but well done to the Coopers either side of me, and to AA for an excellent pole time.

On a final note, it was great to see a full grid, with a lot of rookies out there enjoying themselves. I hope you will all stick with it this season as there is some great racing to be had.
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2010, 10:10:50 AM +0100 »

I still hate Mosport and I think that is my worst qually ever and the first time I've not been able to see the flag man. I had sector times good enough to put me 7th but never put them together into a single lap so started 15th I think.

Picked up some places early on and ended up 10th for a while and climbed a few more places to 7th after a kind soul spun and I passed a couple of others.

Had a good chase with Blito for a few laps but couldn't quite close right in and then had a spin that dropped me too far back to catch him again.

Had to watch my front tyre temps for a while and from then on it was all about whether or not AA would pass me for 7th or not.

He was clearly quicker (too quick for a Lotus Wink) and caught me but every time he closed in he couldn't stay on track and dropped back again. Eventually he used the Lotus power to try a pass on the back straight but then attempted an unusual manouvre which involved trying to occupy the same piece of tarmac as me. Having attempted this move myself in the past I am aware that it almost never works and I got launched skyward so took a free SHIFT R.

Got going again, and again the cat and mouse continued until this time he eventually did make a clean pass and was gone by a couple of seconds a lap.

Great to be back in 65s and at UKGPL again and look forward to the rest of the season.

Thanks to the 2 Hondas I lapped for getting out of the way as I had an unpredictable Lotus on my gearbox.
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2010, 10:14:44 AM +0100 »

fao - badblood

- lession #1 -  slow is fast. drive carefully and you will crash less. each crash costs you 20 seconds of lost time. do some maths and work out how slow you need to go before you start to gain places through not crashing.

- lession #2 - Moss corner (hairpin). slow is fast! take it easy going into the first part (known as 5a) so that the car doesnt run wide or out of control. Get it slowed right down in bottom gear and aim for the "point" of the kerb in 5b. By the time the nose of the car is level with that point you should be on the gas and gaining time down the straight.

- Zeltweg - a good laptime would be anything under 2 minutes if its consistant with lession #1above. If you want to practise Zeltweg i suggest we meet at 9pm next tues for some official practise Smiley

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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2010, 10:24:33 AM +0100 »

OK Novices, for all those who don't know, and as a reminder for those that do, any incidents you were involved in during the race must be reported to the moderator using the "Submit an incident report" link near the top of this thread.

You don't need to PM me or post it here, just use the link above.

Try to be as accurate as you can with your timestamp and if you have an edited clip of the incident that can be useful as the server replay may be slightly different to your client replay, which is important for determining whether or not warp or lag was a factor or not.

The moderator (me) will look at the whole race anyway and hopefully spot all incidents but it is a big help if you report them. If I find an incident that I deem to be your fault and you did not report it. Oh boy! Are you ever in trouble!

Remember, nobody is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle!
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 10:33:41 AM +0100 »

Next Tuesday sounds good. I only got Moss wrong twice but boy did it cost me...
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2010, 10:34:37 AM +0100 »

Anyone got an idea of the sort of time that will not embarrass me at Zeltweg - never driven it.

When preparing for a race, especially at a new track, I usually look at past novices events there to get an idea of what is a competitive lap time in qually and race. Last year's event at Zeltweg is here

http://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8158#event2083

Pole was 51.7 and fastest lap was 52.9. And if you think that is quick then check the Amateurs times Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2010, 10:39:11 AM +0100 »

Holy Cow - I got to 2:03 with my first five laps which were a bit tentative but I will only find 4 or 5 secs more. Boy I need driving lessons. Embarrassed
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GPL65Rank +71.1ish Smiley
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