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  • S20N Zeltweg: October 26, 2010
October 26, 2010, 09:41:33 PM +0100 - Zeltweg - UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Novices Trophy (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Artiglietti
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 1 1:51.823
---
1 45:22.871
---
24 1:52.453
---
Dunlop  
NHance
 Mountside Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 2 +0.086
---
2 +32.276
---
24 1:53.219
---
Goodyear  
Ronniepeterson
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 5 +1.694
---
3 +54.888
---
24 1:53.704
---
Dunlop  
Ross Neilson
 Clark-Hill Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 4 +1.502
---
4 (+3) +56.164
---
24 1:54.134
---
Goodyear  
miner2049er
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 9 +2.205
---
5 +59.048
---
24 1:54.668
---
Dunlop  
il_lupo_mannaro
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 3 +1.148
---
6 (+3) +1:00.701
---
24 1:53.079
---
Dunlop  
roguk
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 7 +1.934
---
7 +1:01.397
---
24 1:53.675
---
Dunlop  
happyal
 Clark-Hill Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 6 +1.807
---
8 +1:25.031
---
24 1:54.871
---
Dunlop  
Nigel Smith
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 11 +2.218
---
9 +1:28.260
---
24 1:53.462
---
Goodyear  
norbert
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 10 +2.217
---
10 +1:43.418
---
24 1:54.300
---
Dunlop  
blito
 Nessuna Speranza
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 12 +2.611
---
11 +1L
---
23 1:54.264
---
Dunlop  
BadBlood
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 14 +3.920
---
12 +2L
---
22 1:58.294
---
Goodyear  
maddog
 
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 13 +2.633
---
13 +14L
---
10 1:56.518
---
Dunlop  
karlisss
 
Honda RA272 F1 1965 8 +2.182
---
14 (+1) +15L
---
9 1:54.860
---
Goodyear  
5 UKGPL
 
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 15 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

Zeltweg proved a popular choice and the recent update made it a reliable choice that will no doubt return.

The long straights suited some more than others, and some decided to make them a little more exciting by changing their line along them, but did they do it in a sporting manner within the rules? The thick plottens......

There were some great and close battles up towards the front with several drivers running in close proximity, but did it all stay as friendly as it looked?


Server replay time: 0h01m00s

This incident starts on the approach to T1 as karliss gets on the grass on the inside of the braking zone, he then strays across track and is lucky not to collect anybody as he veers all the way across track through T1.
He then touches the grass on the outside but does not lose control and begins to move back across to the right.
He can hear cars around him but not see them and he strays towards Blito who moves right to avoid him and in the process collects Nigel Smith.
Blito could hear a Honda but may have assumed it was Karliss not Nigel who could only briefly be seen in his mirrors at 0h01m04s.
Karliss points out that he did not make contact with Blito on his replay, and nor did he on the server replay, but this is not a case of making contact or not.

The incident could have been prevented by either Karliss sticking to his own side of the track or Nigel Smith backing out of his overtake, but I feel it would be harsh to penalise Nigel even though this is a Lap 1 T1 incident where we always ask drivers to take extra care and not attempt a pass unless they can make it cleanly. I think it was reasonable for Nigel to assume that both Karliss and Blito would stick to their lines and leave his line clear.

I would offer advice to Karliss that it is important to stick to your own side of the track and not move across unless you are sure that it is clear, perhaps even using the side view where possible. This is particularly important in Lap 1 Turn 1 incidents where the cars are bunched together, and as he had already swept from one side of the track to the other already.

  • karlissswarning — Marginal Side by Side — also, 1 place lost for penalty points


Server replay time: 0h01m20s

Fabio enters Dr Tiroch kurve much faster than AlBaldwin in front of him, and though Al leaves room on the inside Fabio slides outwards into him.
Neither driver had lost control, Fabio just did not allow Al enough room.


Server replay time: 0h01m55s

BadBlood approaches the accident between MHunt and Karliss, and despite slowing on seeing the incident occurring he has nowhere to go and hits MHunt
Racing Incident

Advice: After such a big collision on lap1 when resetting fuel and tyres won't matter too much, had I been BadBlood I would have taken a free SHIFT R as he was blameless.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h03m10s

MHunt and Fabio both take a Stop n Go at the same time and this demonstrates the importance of taking a Stop n Go in the correct place, i.e. within half a car width of the stalls as neither driver was impeded by the other.

Advice for all.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h05m37s

Ross loses control in Bosch Kurve and NHance spins in sympathy and blocks the track as Ronnie approaches.
Despite seeing the spin and slowing down Ronnie has nowhere to go and hits NHance
Mike sees the incident and slows but has nowhere to go as Ronnie sets off in front of him.
All of these are racing incidents though Ronnie should have been aware he was heading back on to the racing line.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h09m20s

Blito and Karliss meet at T1 again
Karliss has a spin on his own and Blito hits him as he straddles the track.
Blito slows and aims towards the inside expecting Karliss to continue to slide outwards but the 2 collide.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h12m15s

MHunt takes a SHIFT R with no Stop n Go.

He later retires while in the pit lane so I will offset this ommission.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h15m15s

Gilles27 moves twice and blocks RogUK as he attempts a pass.


Server replay time: 0h16m00s

Gilles27 moves and blocks RogUK as he attempts a pass.


Server replay time: 0h31m40s

BadBlood is being lapped by Nigel Smith and the 2 collide and spin.
BadBlood had already let lappers through and knew Nigel was there but lost control exiting Schikane and in correcting his slide he moved across the centre line.

Had BadBlood not been out of control this incident would have been penalised, but as it was caused by his loss of control which we do not generally punish, it is a Racing Incident with advice to be extra careful when being lapped.

BadBlood took a Stop n Go for this incident but did not need to.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h43m10s

Ronnie makes a move across the track to break the tow he would be giving to Ross
1 move off the line and 1 move on to the line again.

See my final comments below.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h44m00s

0h10m30s Gilles27 drives down centre of track
0h13m10s Gilles27 drives down centre of track forcing roguk to lift and back out of attempted pass
0h14m05s Gilles27 drives down centre of track
0h14m20s Gilles27 drives down centre of track
0h15m05s Gilles27 drives down centre of track
0h41m15s Gilles27 drives down centre of track

While not covered under UKGPL rules, this is covered under our etiquette guidelines as below:

"Persistent driving down the centreline of the track in order to make passing difficult is not acceptable. The moderators will take a sensible approach in enforcing this; the idea is to stop blatant centre line driving, not penalise every possible case. For most drivers this rule should make racing safer as well as more fun."

These incidents will be unpunished in this instance as the driver has accrued penalties elsewhere which are deemed sufficient, but centre line driving will be punished in the future for any driver.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h44m00s

0h12m10s Gilles27 takes unusual line but sticks to it
0h40m20s Gilles27 takes unusual line but sticks to it

These two incidents are Gilles27 moving off the racing line and taking an unusual line but sticking to it to either break tow or defend a line into a corner. These incidents are fine and are allowed providing the leading driver moves before the following driver and does not block.

0h08m30s Gilles27 attempts to break tow
0h12m30s Gilles27 attempts to break tow

See my final comments below

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h45m00s

FINAL COMMENTS

These comments relate to drivers moving off the racing line once and moving back onto the racing line once on the same section of track.

While not technically against the rules, and while permitted in real world racing, we have debated the issue in the past and will no doubt do so again, but the risk of doing this in online racing is greater than in real world racing as the end result is that the car following also moves across track to stay in the tow, then the next car moves to stay in his tow etc etc
So the end result is a line of cars weaving across the track on the straight, so nobody ends up managing to break a tow at all, and this is potentially inviting warp incidents and makes planning a clean overtake very difficult and unnecessarily risky.

Obviously there is a difference between weaving to break a tow, weaving and blocking, the latter 2 being against UKGPL rules.

The moderators will view each tow breaking incident on its own merits and there is no rule to ban it as such, but I would strongly recommend that the Novices drivers respect each other enough to race in as clean a manner as possible and to race in a gentlemanly and sporting manner.

  • Racing incident

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Novices Trophy (65) - Zeltweg (Österreichring) - Oct 26  (Read 11465 times)
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2010, 04:08:41 AM +0100 »

BTW I was REALLY pleased with my qually lap - bit disappointed that it put me last again <sigh> We inhabit slightly different worlds. Never thought I would be the Bruno Senna of Online Sad

I rate Bruno higher than half the current F1 grid, it's just his car that's crap.

half ... thats quite a lot of drivers , would you care to say what drivers are worse than bruno?

john

p.s higher than half is above average so you have to name 50% of the drivers that are in f1 atm

I'd rather not continue this here, but I'll send you a PM.
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Ross Neilson
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« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2010, 09:23:55 AM +0100 »

As Mike already said, this one was an absolute corker in terms of racing. A big hand to Norm, Mike, Rog and Ronnie, all of whom I battled with at some point. However, my race speed was pretty poor as a result of all the scrapping and the top two just roared off into the distance. Thought I'd secured third but then Ronnie flew past with a couple of laps left and I decided to bank the points for 4th rather than risk it all late on.

Well done to Artiglietti who blew everyone away here, and didn't make any mistakes in the race. But we will put more pressure on you at Zandy in two weeks Wink
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happyal
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« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2010, 09:36:53 AM +0100 »

My first error free race in GPL. I'm very pleased with that, only problam was that I was slow.

Qual was much better than I expected, with my fastest lap of this circuit, and all times were blue. Couldn't hope to beat it so I didn't try. If anything I was too quick, as when I looked at the grid we were all fairly close from 3rd downwards and I knew that after one of my trade makred spins I would be at the back of the pack anyway.

Started OK, overtook Fabio (I think) who didn't get away from the grid well, but I was overtaken by a rocket who I think was rog. We all got around teh first corner, and I tucked in behind rog down the long staright, braked a little early for turn 2 and go hit from behind. I haven't looked at my reply yet so I don't know what went wrong.
I did a Shift&R and was pretty much last, next corner was a real mess, with cars all over the track, I slowed down and zig zaged my way and got under way again. I was in 8th at the end of lap 1. Norbert was in front and Nigel Smith was behind, I tried to calm myself into a rhythm. Norbert had a spin which let me past, but I was watching Nigel catch me up slowly put surely. I always had one eye on prib to find out were Nigel was, Fabio few past us all at one point but it was mainly just me watching Nigel catch me up slowly.

With a few laps to go Nigel was in sight of my mirrors and I could hear his engine, I was getting ready to defend my line and planning were I was going to brake. At that moment I lost the sound of his engine, a quick look at prib told me he was dropping back quickly, so I can only assume that he had a spin. With a few laps to go I turned down the wick and cruised to teh finish line.

Second race in a row that Nigel has been hunting me down and I've been nervously looking at my mirrors waiting for his attack. Thank you for some good racing.

Looking forward to next Zandervoot, I've always been slow there so I'm hoping for anothe error free run and see where that puts me.
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Artiglietti
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« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2010, 01:06:00 PM +0100 »

Oh yes  Grin Grin Grin Grin!!  punk punk punk

I really wanted to get at least a win this season, so very happy it happened so soon.

Clinched pole by the skin of my teeth, I set a quick time right away (had been practising for the previous half an hour...), but then NH started to shave his times bit by bit, at some stage I had 0.01 secs on him! So, luck on my side this time, no complaints!

Had a good start, but duly almost dropped it at T2, only just managing to stay off the grass and use the lotus power to recover down the straight. Was pulling away slowly slowly for the first 3 laps, then you all disappeared! Replay unveiled the mystery, Ross trying a new line at turn 3 and NH along with some others stopping by to have a look... Cheesy; that let me off the hook, I think I had 10 or 15 secs by lap 5, so from then on it was just a case of bringing it home without doing anything silly. Which can be a challenge in itself though...

I had a couple of coming across slower Hondas recovering from spins, but we all have been made more cautious by Mosport clashes and mods sticks Wink, so everything went very smoothly.

So, lonely and vaguely surreal at times, had to talk to myself loudly a couple of times to keep me awake down the long straights. And very much helped by the early clash behind me. But still, a win is a win, and this is the first one!! Kiss

Also, it has to be a well done to the guys battling behind me. I watched you in the replay, that was awesome, loved those pass and counter pass moves at turn 1! I would have certainly found a way to bin it sooner rather than later, so glad I was able to pull away and stay out of trouble this time!

Looking forward to Zandvoort, although thats a tight track, hope to keep all my wheels on till the end of the race there.. laugh

AA
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maddog
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« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2010, 01:17:01 PM +0100 »

I seem to have been about the only layabout about!
Wish you'd retired before the end of lap 1 - I might have finished lap 1 in the pack!  Grin  Not that I would have stayed there. You should have waited for me and enjoyed passing me again and again  Roll Eyes It was lonely out there.

I wouldn't get too upset - you're competing against a fast crowd!  I expect it's only the top 10 percent of racers, who ever make it online.  By jousting with the front runners, albeit briefly, you'll continue to improve.  The bad news is, you're not fast enough to be judged as a proper layabout yet, when having an off day.  The good news is, you will be, fast enough, after some more races.  And the bad news is, you could then become a confirmed layabout.
 
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 02:08:03 PM +0100 by maddog » Logged
NHance
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« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2010, 02:16:40 PM +0100 »

First an appology as in a desperate attempt for pole with 7 minutes left I put 3 laps of fuel in & pulled out of the pits a bit hasty just as AA was passing. Hope it didn't put you off too much as I noticed you went off after turn 1, sorry.

First 5 laps were mayhem but by that time AA had gone so any thoughts I had of mounting a challenge went with him. He so very nearly went off twice in the first lap I thought it was my lucky day (AT LAST!), but no. After I got away from the crowd it was a cruise to the end for 19 laps protecting the engine as I had one blow on my 2nd qually timed lap.

Looking at the replay I see that RP hit me as I spun when trying to adjust the line when Ross hit the wall. Didn't remember that after the race. How that will be treated I don't know.

We're all off to the seaside next & phsycic Norm profisies that it will all be much closer & the experienced Cooper drivers will show what they can do. Personally my PB in a BT11 is only ½ second faster than my Cooper PB so think what they'll be like!.

Norm H

p.s. Is AA the new Al Heller? i.e. totally dominant in novs racing (season 18) first part of the season.  I bl**dy hope not. Take heart remember Goran arrived. Grin
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Al Heller
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« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2010, 03:09:36 PM +0100 »


p.s. Is AA the new Al Heller? i.e. totally dominant in novs racing (season 18) first part of the season.  I bl**dy hope not. Take heart remember Goran arrived. Grin

Cheesy Those first races surprised me more than anyone Norm! When I joined Novs midway through season 17 I was reasonably quick but certainly not dominant - however season 18 saw Clutch, Mike & James Rye all move up to Am's, which coupled with some heavy practising by me during the off-season moved me right up the order. I'd only done a handful of online races then so I still maintain that my consistency was the key in s18 anyway - if you look at my times they were never that much quicker than the rest of the field.

Congratulations to AA for the debut win - very impressive qually times from both of you so I have no doubt the luck will go your way soon Norm Wink
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NHance
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« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2010, 03:42:49 PM +0100 »

Hope I didn't embarrass you Al. It was meant in fun to make myself & everyone realise it's early days yet.
I always remember that being a really good season.

Clutch has given me permission to remove my Muppet of Mosport badge now even though the Mods report ain't out yet.

Norm H 
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miner2049er
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« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2010, 05:42:27 PM +0100 »

Clutch has given me permission to remove my Muppet of Mosport badge now even though the Mods report ain't out yet.

Yes it is. Has been for a while.
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Ronniepeterson
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« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2010, 07:49:06 PM +0100 »

Getting caught up in the early ruck put paid to any chance of scrapping with the leading two but hey what a battle for third. Great race with Mike and Ross I think and yes the power of the lotus in the final stages really helped me. Congrats to the top two Artiglietti and Nhance. I will look a the replay soon to submit as requested any mayhem I was involved in. Lap 2 or 3 I know I hit someone who spun immediately in front of me and then on recovering myself was struck by someone joining the mayhem. If that was you Nhance that spun into my path early on I hope its looked on favourably by the moderators. And apologies in advance to the driver/s behind for being a mobile barrier as you got past/through me.

More importantly message to BadBlood. You were fine in traffic everytime our paths crossed and get that wheel/gear shift fixed (early Xmas present for yourself maybe?). Don't even think about auto gears unless you want to know the true meaning of SLOW.

See you all at Zandvort.
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NHance
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« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2010, 08:06:01 PM +0100 »

Yeah I know Mike I meant for Zeltweg he was anticipating my points are secure at Zeltweg.

Yes RP it was me who spun in front of you. Sorry about that. When I saw the replay I was relieved you recovered for a good finish & well done by the way & also to AA I forgot to say that above. Forgetting to congratulate my rivals, self obsession with my own performance, I'm turning into a proper formula 1 driver  Wink.

Norm H
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« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2010, 08:55:00 PM +0100 »

Well, yesterday I felt as Valentino Rossi....

In qualify I set the third time on the grid, really not so bad with a default setup...

At race start I really did really bad ("braccino" I would say...) and everybody seemed able to pass me...

Then, on Dr. Tiroch corner, there was a contact between me and Alistair (I think)...

I didn't check the replay, so I'm really not able to say if it was my fault or not: I only remember he went wide on the corner and I tried to pass him on the inside.
Let's wait the moderator's review...

S+r, Stop'n'Go and I was back on track on 13th place: from that moment on it was hard but fun, and I ended my race at 6th place, setting the 2nd FL

Long Live GPL, Long Live UKGPL!!

See you all on the Dutch sands
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BadBlood
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« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2010, 09:28:46 PM +0100 »

Fabio, I saw you come out after that SnG and you just ZOOMED away - it was just cruel! Sob.

Enjoying it though even if my race happens in a parallel universe to the rest of you.
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BadBlood

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FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2010, 10:32:59 PM +0100 »

BB - when I was looking at the server replay from Mosport I noticed you're changing up at 11000rpm.
Is there a reason you're doing this? Only the Honda will go much better if you take it to 12000rpm before changing.
12500 is my normal max (only for short periods, i.e. low gears) and I'll rarely go above unless in the closing stages and fighting for position  Smiley

That will help gain you some speed  Cool

Just beware of over-revving or it WILL explode  Grin
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BadBlood
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« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2010, 02:14:18 PM +0100 »

Thanks for that Tim - I read somewhere you had to keep revs between 9 and 11 - i'll try it out.
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