UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Historic Trophy (66) - Monza (GP 1955-71) - Mar 15

[Ronniepeterson]

Hristo, I have explained myself fully, I could carry on explaining myself, but you would always find fault. As for getting personal, I apologise if I said anything out of turn.

But I would ask you to read just some of your responses below and be honest with yourself. They are incredibly patronising at best. If I had made them I would certainly be apologising to you for them, but thats just me. Our difference of opinion, and thats all it is, is not helping further the argument one way or another and so for me is over. I certainly don't have a problem with you and I hope that sentiment is reciprocated.

Oh please... if someone refuses to see they're doing wrong and if lost places penalties are obviously not strong enough incentive to make them realize they're actually doing wrong, then how can you say it's infinitely better?

I would understand if you speak from your experience, but it goes to show you've either ignored some situations from the last few seasons, going through all divisions, or you've just not experienced the situations of which I'm speaking of.

[vosblod]

They won't be tempted to do it again, because the next penalty in line for them is a much more severe one, such as one race ban or more.

Sorry but just to pick up on that, not if you are advocating clearing off the yellow/penalties on a frequent basis. They can merely rollover indefinately on this basis as there would be no accumulated penalties to use in justifying a ban. Noted the idea would be to make the time periods last longer but that would surely just put a ban situation on an infinate horizon and I didn't think that is what you were trying to achieve?

[Hristo Itchov]

It could be made to work. Example:

1 Yellow points - 2 races probation period. If you get more yellow points during that period, the period is extended for cover more races, as follows.
2 Yellow points - 3 races probation, counting from the accumulation of the most recent yellow point
3 Yellow points - 6 race probation, counting again from the time of accumulating the most recent yellow point.

The idea is that you don't go into a very long probation for a minor offense or a first offense, such as the ones where you get a warning or a lost place / time penalty, but if you continuously cause accidents you gather more yellow points and the period is automatically increased.

IMO it's better than having a fixed period for yellow points, regardless of how many you have. It's like putting on probation drivers for both minor and major offenses, which seems a bit unfair.

Anyway, I DO support that you as admin and the division moderators as well intervene on a subjective basis to some extent, because sticking blindly to rules never leads to anything good, but I think we'll benefit of filling in some gaps and smoothing out the steps in penalties, and it would also make it easier for the moderation process itself.

@Ronnie - I did read everything you say and because it's a discussion, I'm entitled to mention any faults I see in your statements, supporting that with facts and examples. It's just that at some point you don't reply in the same way, but just say "you're wrong" or focus on my behaviour, which has nothing to do with the discussion. I'm fine with people having different opinions, but if you're going to enter a discussion and try to convince someone about your point of view, it has to be done with arguments. Otherwise we'll just be stating our views and not interact or discuss anything, and I don't think that would ever lead to any conclusions.

[Ronniepeterson]

As you say Hristo you are fully entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. My comments are crystal clear to all but you. More worrying than your refusal to accept any opinion or argument unless it meets your stringent criteria for clarity is your inability to see when YOU have overstepped the mark with your condescending patronising attitude. I offered you an olive branch to end this spat and move on . Can you really not bring yourself to accept it and move on.

[Hristo Itchov]

Who told you we're simply stating opinions? That's not my understanding of a discussion. We can all state opinions without any interaction, but where would that lead? The aim is to convince others that what you think about the topic is better justified than what we have at the moment or what others think, otherwise why bother mention it? It's not about how you FEEL about it, but how it actually is or the potential it represents.

If I see flaws in your way of thinking or in your proposed ideas, and I can provide facts that support my claims, how exactly does that bother you? Either disprove in return or don't get involved. It has nothing to do with opinions, it's about looking at things objectively, by using your observations and experience yet separating yourself from the equation.

[Ronniepeterson]

So now its not even enough to have an opinion/comment and/or an explanation of that opinion/comment for this forum. No, you even want to set the criteria for for the whole discussion. Well these were your own words

It seems you're just paying too much attention to the wording....Just try to see beyond that and what is actually being meant by it.

No, in my opinion .....

If a forum isn't meant for discussing things, whether good or bad, I don't know what it is for.

Please stop and listen to yourself. Here is just a sample of of your responses to different drivers who committed the cardinal sin of expressing an opinion/comment on this discussion forum site. In each case you refuse to accept their right to a point of view and/or explanation of their point of view.

You're totally entitled to your opinion, but if it goes against mine without proper explanation then it's just empty words.

You and others keep saying it, but you don't explain yourselves at all.

That's your opinion. I don't care if it's for money or not. If you really believe money is the main motivation for real racing drivers, then you're totally wrong. Fun is such a vague term that it loses any meaning.

But since we're discussing things, we won't come to any agreement if each of us insist on what they think is right, so it usually takes a lot of posts (and time) to sort things out.

You make no sense.

when someone speaks about things that involve me without being objective, I can't keep silent.

It has nothing to do with intimidation because I have no reason to intimidate. If someone feels intimidated then that's their own problem. And no, I'm not worried

Well you still fail to UNDERSTAND the meaning of my thinking and my words then.

You've obviously not been following the discussion carefully if you assumed that by "flawed logic and limited understanding" I was aiming at people (or someone in particular) or at the rules as a whole! Why do you force me to repeat myself if you're not going to bother reading it?

I explain to you what I meant and which you obviously misunderstood, and instead of admitting you assumed wrong and try to think on what I actually said, you try to make me look as the one who has a problem.

Please please before replying. First delete your firstdraft of your reply, take a deep breath and just admit that possibly, just possibly, all these other drivers might just be entitled to have their say regardless of whether you disagree with them and/or are not satisfied with their explanations.

[Hristo Itchov]

Who do you think you're talking to, Ronnie, your son? Take a deep breathe? What makes you think I'm emotionally burdened when I'm writing my replies? Seriously, get a clue already and stop bothering me with lectures on how to behave, act, write, or how to participate in a forum discussion!

Either stick to what we're discussing or don't say a thing. My interest lies in solving the problems me and a couple of other people have brought up to the attention of the league, not in engaging in pointless personal scrap with someone who claims they're entitled to an opinion, yet jumps at the first opportunity to argue about someone else's, followed by a preach on how they should not do the same in return. You begin with it in the same manner, which is fine, but then you choose to bail out of it for whatever reason, make bold claims without any provided explanation, and then begin to preach?

Next time, before you get to this last stage and when you tell me I'm wrong or that you disagree with anything I say, try to EXPLAIN where, why and how you think I'm wrong about anything I've said. I see none of that, at all. In this particular case, all you keep saying all this time is how certain penalties would deter people from racing, and all of it is based on your assumptions. In all the leagues I've raced, I haven't seen a single person ever being detered by such penalties, so your claims are just your own subjective prejudical thoughts and nothing more. Show me proof that you're right, show me proof that I'm not, then we speak again, and spare me all that crap which you try to bring up in every single thread we engage in a discussion.

You're crawling over expressions such as "in my opinion", but there's a difference between opinions based on facts and opinions based on nothing but assumptions. Maybe it's just you who feel threatened of facing such potential penalties because you see yourself causing too many accidents? It begins to seem that way, lol.

P.S. I always reread and correct what I write before posting, or shortly after posting, so rest assured it's a consciouss effort of what I really mean. 

[Ronniepeterson]

Ther really is no hope for you Hristo. You are the rear end of the centipede, of that there is no doubt.

[Hristo Itchov]

Ther really is no hope for you Hristo. You are the rear end of the centipede, of that there is no doubt.

Lol, you just did it again, Ronnie. You're so unable to argue and to discuss something, that you always turn to personal attacks. Pathetic. Keep at it, it obviously makes you feel better.

[bernie]

got to say I'm getting a bit lost with this one 


Is it match point Hristo or deuce 


 

[Ronniepeterson]

got to say I'm getting a bit lost with this one 


Is it match point Hristo or deuce 


 

Game over