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  • S20A Dijon-Prenois: December 07, 2010
December 07, 2010, 09:48:57 PM +0000 - Dijon-Prenois (GP) - UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 1 1:25.620
---
1 47:53.815
---
33 1:25.822
---
Dunlop  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 2 +0.409
---
2 +14.381
---
33 1:26.497
---
Dunlop  
G Jonsson
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 3 +1.009
---
3 +18.295
---
33 1:26.832
---
Goodyear  
FullMetalGasket
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 4 +1.052
---
4 +21.814
---
33 1:26.572
---
Dunlop  
Podkrecony_Ziutek
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 6 +1.487
---
5 +30.746
---
33 1:26.815
---
Dunlop  
Turkey Machine
 HikiWazaRacing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 5 +1.264
---
6 +58.504
---
33 1:26.572
---
Dunlop  
Al Heller
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 8 +2.483
---
7 +1:13.013
---
33 1:27.987
---
Dunlop  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 10 +4.316
---
8 +1L
---
32 1:29.187
---
Dunlop  
Clutch4
 Mountside Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 9 +3.067
---
9 +19L
---
14 1:28.190
---
Goodyear  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 7 +2.132
---
10 +31L
---
2 1:29.951
---
Dunlop  
2 UKGPL_T7
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 11 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

Dijon proved to provide some great racing, although it recieved mixed reviews from the drivers after the event.
Honors went to Hristo for the win, and eventually - after much argueing - the remaining podium places were claimed by Clive and Goran.


Server replay time: 0h04m06s

Clutch gets a run on Phil down the main straight and they enter the braking zone to T1 side by side.
Phil knows Clutch is to his inside so leaves room and turns in late, Clutch attempts to brake late while holding the inside line to give Phil room.
At the Turn in point Clutch looses the rear end slightly and over corrects, this causes him to drift out to - and slightly beyond - the center line of the corner where he contacts Phils car.
The server replay suggests there was always going to be slight contact, but what then occured was massively exagerated by lag (Phil's connection appears to be slightly 'iffy' for this race).

Having reviewed the incident and searched the regs, I have decided to go with a Marginal Side by Side contact as the incident fits almost perfectly:
1. In a corner, after a legitimate overtaking attempt the cars end up side by side. One driver looses control and strays from their side of the track. Contact is made. Warning for driver that moves over.

When performing a late braking maneuver drivers should remember to anticipate and match steering angle to braking effort - sometimes it can be just as effective to brake at near enough the normal point and take advantage of having the more settled car for a good clean exit.

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Clutch4
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« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2010, 10:22:02 PM +0000 »

Ah well, 'another' early bath.

Apologies to Phil. We made contact a few laps in. Him on the outside of T1 and me on the inside. We gave each other plenty of room i thought but somehow contact happended and he came off worst (i'm assuming contact happened). Phil's car was warping pretty badly so i knew it would be tricky to pass but it seemed like we had plenty of room. Apologies if required.

Managed to catch Al Heller but was starting to struggle. Prib showed by front tyres to have an Average tyre temp way higher than i usually have and so it was causing huge slides. It caught me out eventually and i spun just as i'd finally reeled him in. A shame, but poor set up. i should have spotted that.

After that it was just a case of staying in front of Bernie who was 20secs back, but after i got a Pit In sign for an 'accidental' short cut i could see the leaders approaching.

I could have plodded round on my own for the next 40 minutes and picked up some points just for finishing but couldn't really be bothered if i'm honest and its not the sort of track where i'd feel confortable allowing the leaders to lap me as its tight in places. I must admit, as i pulled over to disconnect i felt envious watching the same 3 or 4 fast guys all within a second of each other lap me. Looked like great fun.

They're still racing now, so i'll offer my usual early congratulations to Itchov on another great win.

At long last we now go to a track that isn't a BT7 stronghold.. i hope
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2010, 10:29:42 PM +0000 »

Apologies to Phil. We made contact a few laps in. Him on the outside of T1 and me on the inside. We gave each other plenty of room i thought but somehow contact happended and he came off worst (i'm assuming contact happened). Phil's car was warping pretty badly so i knew it would be tricky to pass but it seemed like we had plenty of room. Apologies if required.
I was a bit worried about my connection so I tried to give you plenty of room but on my replay there was massive contact.  I'm pretty sure it was down to my connection.  If it was you should have got past totally unscathed because the warp wouldn't of affected you as you were on the inside.  My on the other hand was catapulted 30 feet into the air and landed on the roll bar. 

Pity I really liked that track but not your fault clutch.
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bernie
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« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2010, 10:43:48 PM +0000 »

Saw your spinning lotus Phil , twas the only entertainment I had during the whole race , apart from being lapped that is .
Pretty boring stuff , way off the pace as usual , couldnt come to terms with Dijon think it may have been gears , though more likely the driver , I think my biggest problem (there were many small ones ) was no speed out of final turn so dog slow down the straight.

Grats again to H (hows about a blood transfusion mate ) and all them what finished .

 
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FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2010, 11:00:04 AM +0000 »

After that it was just a case of staying in front of Bernie who was 20secs back, but after i got a Pit In sign for an 'accidental' short cut i could see the leaders approaching.

Sorry about that - I thought I had waypoints disabled but couldn't be sure due to the race list not being up  Sad

I know it's a bit late now but you could have ignored the mesage and continued. Had you reported it after the race I could have re-instated your position when the results were finalised (I'd have to check the cause of D/Q first, and then figure out how! but it can be done)

My own race started well enough leap frogging from 4th to 2nd off the line and I settled in quite happily behind Hristo with Clive rapidly jumping Goran to take 3rd.
For the first lap or so it was fairly tight with me staying as close as poss to Hristo and Clive all over my own gearbox.
After a couple of laps I'd lost a tiny bit of distance to Hristo but gained a few hundred yards on clive which was making things easier - It was becoming clear that I was unlikely to pressure H much unless his tyres gave out early.
I therefore chose to work as hard as possible to use the slipstream to loose Clive - this eventually worked and after opening the gap to 150yds on the main straight clive lost my draft and started going backwards finally.
All was well for a few more laps until I made a mistake, this disrupted my rythem and overheated my rears which allowed Clive to regain the draft - Without Hristo to tow me along the straight this allowed Clive to get on my rear in no time.
Hristo then rejoined us and the 3 of us set off in tight formation, me desperate not to loose ground on Clive.
My still over-warm tyres didn't help this and resulted in Clive pulling away from me after a while, he in turn lost Hristo's draft shortly before they lapped Bernie - Clive appeared to loose some time in his passing maneuver, which combined with my drafting Bernie along the entire S/F straight allowed me to catch right back up.
2 laps later and with Goran right behind me I lost the rear into T1 when I got the transition from concrete to tarmac wrong while trail braking - I span off and handed 3rd to Goran.

I rejoined and went like the clappers - eventually my tyres returned to a sane temp (Again!) and I could start turning decent laps. This allowed me to stop Pod's own attempts at gaining on me and eventually resulted in my regaining a couple of seconds on Goran (After the spin I'd reach 5 seconds down - this was reduced to roughly 3 seconds by the flag).

Again the results suprised me somewhat as I'd chosen Dijon as a 'power' track*, perhaps Tom would have helped vindicate my choice had he been here with his BRM although Goran's pace in the BT11 seemed good enough to challenge for a win in qualifiying.....


Due to my expectations in the race results (Which were wrong again!) I'd chosen to go with an experimental setup featuring positive rear toe Grin Thinking I don't have a chance at victory so what does it matter!....
It worked perfectly as intended but made the entry to T1 tricky during the transition across the concrete/tarmac under braking which was to eventually cost me 3rd. I can't see many circuits where this setup will help me but it's deffinatly one I intend to use again when it gives gains  Smiley

Well raced everyone.  Smiley
Well done on a podium for Black Night, Goran.  Grin
And I supose a well done to those fiendish Waza's too.  Tongue


* When the mid season review goes up I'll appreciate honest input into my track choices this season - I thought I'd chosen a good spread of power Vs Handling/technical circuits but going by comments after races it looks like I misjudged - So please use the mid season to help me address that for next time  Smiley
(If only to stop Hristo winning again WinkGrin
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bernie
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« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2010, 11:18:17 AM +0000 »


Quote
drafting Bernie along the entire length of the S/F straight allowed me to catch back up

Glad to be of help  Smiley


Quote
* When the mid season review goes up I'll appreciate honest input into my track choices this season - I thought I'd chosen a good spread of power Vs Handling/technical circuits but going by comments after races it looks like I misjudged - So please use the mid season to help me address that for next time 
(If only to stop Hristo winning again  )   

You could try taking Hristo's steering wheel off

 Grin Grin Grin
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EvilClive
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« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2010, 11:19:53 AM +0000 »

Well this race went much better for me than I had been expecting after some pretty poor private practice sessions Grin

Initially I could not get the Coop below 1:29 no matter what I did and how Hristo was posting 1:26's was a total mystery even after watching his video!!!

So, I concentrated on laps with race fuel and slight changes to the lines I was taking through some of the corners,  although they felt slower they actually began to trim a few tenths off the lap times. Eventually I was doing low 1:27's on full fuel and decided that was as good as it was going to get.
My main concern for the race was that there really is only one overtaking place, at the end of the S/F straight. In an underpowered Cooper against Fezzas and BRM's etc after such a long straight life might get a bit difficult???
An early lap netted a decent qually lap on race fuel but soon Hristo totally eclipsed that time followed by Goran and then Tim. 4th was not too bad I figured but Al and a few others were very close behind and the last few minutes of qually could see me drop a few more places  Undecided. Time for Banzai Boost.
dumped a load of fuel and went out again with about 2 mins to go and hooked up a great lap to get a 1:26 dead and sneak in front of Goran and behind my team mate on the grid............nice  Grin
Then I totally flunked the start and dropped 2 or 3 place on the run to T1 I held a straight line down the inside and a tight run around the kerb to emerge from T1 in 3rd spot behind 2 BT7's, driven by the usual suspects.

With so few overtaking opportunities, I decided to sit back and follow Hristo and Tim for a few laps and see how things panned out. Gradually the three of us edged away from the chasing pack and there was nothing but fresh air in my mirrors, but I was hanging on to the front two.

Things seemed pretty evenly balanced and I could see that Tim was trying hard to put pressure on Hristo but not quite managing to get close enough. The problem with this track is that overdriving and small errors will cost you a lot of time which caused the gaps between us to change every lap.
At about half distance I could see that Hristo was just beginning to sneak away and that Tim was really pushing his BT7 to try and hold on. As a result he was running just a little wide on some corners and clipping the gravel, so I thought that it was time to apply some Waza team pressure  Roll Eyes and started pushing a little harder. At first I was trying too hard and simply allowed Tim to extend the gap, so I relaxed a little and sure enough the gap came down a few tenths at a time until I was into his slipstream.
I guess it took me about 3 laps to set up the pass as it was not just the exit from the last corner that had to be right, but more like the exit from the tight right hander in the dip half way around the lap and then nailing all the corners from there on, until I emerged onto the straight right on his gearbox. I wanted to avoid any contact at T1 so I pulled out early and got alongside Tim way before the bend. Tim was forced to fo wide around the outside and I hugged the kerb UNTIL... I had a moment of lag or frame stutter (or something!!)and momentarily I thought I was heading in Tim's direction and all was going to end in tears.
But normal service was quickly resumed and I was able to take 2nd spot and gradually tease a 100mtr gap whereupon my teammate (accidentally because there are no team orders  Roll Eyes) granted me the use of his slipstream and we eased away from Tim.
The only slight prob to this Waza demonstration drive was lapping Bernie. Hristo caught and passed him on a convenient short straight section, but I found myself caught behind Bernie on one of the bends. No fault of Bernie's, everyone has gotta be somewhere on the track?!!. That dropped me back within sight of Tim and allowed Hristo to get beyond slipstream range. Just after that Tim must have had an off somwhere and I was able to cruise home in a very unexpected 2nd spot.

Grats to all who finished and Hristo.
BTW I did suffer some Lag or disruption at several points in the race and at one point thought I was going to be disco'd did anyone else have similar probs??
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FullMetalGasket
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« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2010, 11:50:59 AM +0000 »

Didn't notice any lag/freezes at my end Clive - the meters were missing though (iGOR related aswell??) so I couldn't keep abrest of general network quality though....
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Al Heller
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« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2010, 12:26:55 PM +0000 »

Must admit to getting a little despondent about my relative lack of pace this season. Not sure if it was me or the BRM that was struggling more through these long twists & turns - but with no other BRMs in the field I had nothing to compare to so I'm assuming it was a combination of both. Quallied near the back but got a perfect start that catapulted me several places & I found myself running 5th just behind Goran for the opening laps. Couldn't keep up with Goran's pace & anyway I soon had Bartosz's Lotus harrying me to get past - a good battle but I was finding the BRM on full tanks a real handful & Bart got through & swiftly pulled away. Next up was Clutch who was catching me steadily but then span just as he was poised to attack. That let a recovering & very quick Jethro onto my tail & I'm pleased to say we had a 15-20 lap scrap & swapped places several times... with no incident Shocked I could pull just enough down the main straight to stay ahead into T1 but for the rest of the lap the Coop was all over me - Jethro was pushing hard to get past but drove well, leaving room when I was in his blind spot & patiently waiting for his chance thumbup1 JW finally got ahead for good when I outbraked myself a bit into T1 & he scooted off leaving me to plod round to the finish in a lonely 7th.

Congrats to H - that's 5 BT7 wins out of 5, also WD to Clive & Goran.
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Turkey Machine
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« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2010, 01:36:20 PM +0000 »

Must admit to getting a little despondent about my relative lack of pace this season. Not sure if it was me or the BRM that was struggling more through these long twists & turns - but with no other BRMs in the field I had nothing to compare to so I'm assuming it was a combination of both. Quallied near the back but got a perfect start that catapulted me several places & I found myself running 5th just behind Goran for the opening laps. Couldn't keep up with Goran's pace & anyway I soon had Bartosz's Lotus harrying me to get past - a good battle but I was finding the BRM on full tanks a real handful & Bart got through & swiftly pulled away. Next up was Clutch who was catching me steadily but then span just as he was poised to attack. That let a recovering & very quick Jethro onto my tail & I'm pleased to say we had a 15-20 lap scrap & swapped places several times... with no incident Shocked I could pull just enough down the main straight to stay ahead into T1 but for the rest of the lap the Coop was all over me - Jethro was pushing hard to get past but drove well, leaving room when I was in his blind spot & patiently waiting for his chance thumbup1 JW finally got ahead for good when I outbraked myself a bit into T1 & he scooted off leaving me to plod round to the finish in a lonely 7th.

Congrats to H - that's 5 BT7 wins out of 5, also WD to Clive & Goran.

That battle was classic... sooo many times I got in a perfect position to pass then Al just put his foot to the floor on the straight and I had to slot in to keep up!!! Keeping up in the corners was easy enough, not running into the back of somebody is harder than it looks mind....

Must admit, the Cooper was a good car but nowhere near Hristo's pace despite the setup being identical save for gears in the race. After slotting into position on the end of the first lap I found a rapidly approaching rear-end of a car in the crux of the braking point for T1. Cue me desperately trying to avoid hitting the poor swine (Goran) and a trip across the T1 gravel.

Slotted in behind Clutch and Phil, who's battle ended acrimoniously when Clutch appeared to ease Phil out of room then warp took over. I can give you guys my replay clip if it'd help. Smiley

Clutch then started to mount his attack on Al when Bartosz got ahead, then after a few laps he spun the corner after the Parabolique, leaving me nowhere to go and t-boning him - sorry Clutch.

After that, the replay speaks for itself. Al could keep ahead on the straight but I was miles quicker in the corners. Mate, if you get that car balanced in the corners you'd have been up with Hristo on pace.

Good fun, really enjoyable racing. Smiley
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Podkrecony_Ziutek
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« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2010, 02:12:03 PM +0000 »

BTW I did suffer some Lag or disruption at several points in the race and at one point thought I was going to be disco'd did anyone else have similar probs??

I had an screen freeze in qual. Luckily it didn't happened in race Wink

I think my race was lost at the start. I've just released clutch to early, revs dropped and Al easily passed me. Soon I've catch him and we had good battle. I knew that I have to pass Al, because leaders were running away, and I saw in my mirrors that Clutch is getting closer. Afther few attempts to pass BRM I finally made it and started chasing Goran. Unfortunately he was already 9 seconds in front of me. I was hoping that leaders were fighting witch eachother, this would slow them down and maybe allow me to catch them. That didn't happened and gap between me and Goran was encrising.

Some laps later I've noticed that FMG have problems and I was catching him. I was pushing very hard, but soon Tim found his pace. In the end I've finished 5th, witch is ok for me. THX for good racing and cya next time.
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2010, 03:03:36 PM +0000 »

I couldn't quite match my PB (well double PB because I did 2 25.5s in offline practice) during Qualifying, but my best lap was still enough to take pole in front of the sudden flat 26 done by Evil!

For a change I had a good start and just managed to hold onto 1st, but didn't realize it was Tim who was on the inside of T1 and not Evil. After making sure there's nobody on my side after the first couple of corners, I tried to go a bit cautiously and let the car speak to me, becaue I've not driven it on fuel tanks yet and was not sure what to expect from the handling.

This allowed Tim to slot behind and catch some glimpses of slipstream for a few laps, and I was wondering if the other car behind me that I could see in the mirrors was Evil or not. There were moments where I thought Tim would be making an attack any moment, but he (and the rest) were always dropping back about half a second in the last sectors. From what I could see in my mirrors they were just pushing too hard and drifting wide in those right-handers, and that really compromised their acceleration. Keeping it tight and smooth seemed to be the key, even though it felt slower.

Eventually I managed to pull away from Tim and once he was completely off the slipstream I could increase the gap to 3-4 seconds. I think around at the same time as Evil apparently passed Tim I had my spin at the hairpin (no, it wasn't on purpose to help Evil as you think!). The undulation in the middle of the corner caught me out as I applied a bit too much power and besides, the tires were getting a bit too hot for comfort at that point already.

Fortunately I managed to turn around and accelerate just as they were coming out of the corner behind me, so I remained in the lead, but only just! Once I realized it's Evil behind and given the heat in my tires, I decided to ease off a little bit and provide some slipstream. There was a 3rd benefit in that which I only realized at the end of the race and that was fuel consumption. Had I not slowed down for a number of laps in the beginning and in the middle of the race, I would've most likely ran out of fuel. As it was, I crossed the line just when it was about to go off, so good timing there!

Grats to Evil for making it a great 1-2 for Hiki-Waza, SHE would be pleased!

As for tracks choice, I still think this is a power track, but too many people seem to overdrive the faster cars in corners (especially from middle of the corner onwards) and lose any possible advantage they could get on the straights.
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Turkey Machine
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« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2011, 01:40:31 PM +0000 »

What the.... just noticed me and FMG got the same fastest lap to within 1 thousandth of a second!!! Shocked
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2011, 02:09:40 PM +0000 »

What the.... just noticed me and FMG got the same fastest lap to within 1 thousandth of a second!!! Shocked

And then you try to convince us you suck in the Cooper!  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2011, 02:33:42 PM +0000 »

Exactly  Wink

Don't think I havn't been watching your times/races this season to check wether you really are as slow as you claim in the Coop - you're still easily in the top half of lap times on circuit where you survive more than a lap  Tongue

I'd have had to do something by now if you really were that slow  Grin
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2011, 03:43:28 PM +0000 »

I suppose you just don't practice and prepare properly, Jethro.
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