Tuesdays

[Paul Thurston]

Now the Radical and Mazda series are finished Tuesdays are clear.

I've had an idea for a series designed to coordinate with the ACHF Friday sprints and the Sunday GT races.  We'd run the same tracks but over an hour and with a greater car choice.  If we run the Tuesday before the Sunday then people can use it as a practice race for the longer 90 minute endurance event or treat is as a series in it's own right.

I'm thinking Radical, DP, Corvette, Mustang and maybe the Late Model.  Most people in SRO own the majority if not all of those cars though I accept some may have to buy a car they won't drive, me included as I don't own the Mustang.

The different cars would be handicapped using the tried and tested UKGPL method of mandatory pitstops.  For example, assuming a performance order of Mustang, Late Model, Radical, Corvette, DP (we'd need to check this) we might use the following mandatory stops:

Mustang:    None
Late Model: None
Radical:      One
Corvette:   One (+mandatory tyre change)
DP:           Two

Obviously We'd need to do some testing to set the pitstop requirements, I've made these up as an example.  In the UKGPL days we set different stop times for each car/track but I don't believe we need to be that precise as long as a well driven car has the chance of being in the lead after the stops.  The rest is then up to the individual driver.

What makes races interesting is variability.  A range of different cars like this should result in races where you never know what you're going to encounter.  The faster cars at the front of the grid are going to require more pitstops which wil put them back into the pack.  The winner will be the driver who makes the best of his car.

Importantly more people get to drive their favourite car all season or choose any car for any race.  If halfway through the season they decide they've made a mistake they can switch to something different without penalty and those who like to drive different cars all the time can do so.

I've not thought it through but there's scope to run a similar series on the alternate weeks for single seaters so we could run the Mazda, Dallara and F1.  The Skippy might be considered too slow in that company but is also an option.

I don't mind doing the basic organising, determining pitstop times, posting announcements, results etc but I'd need help starting servers as I don't get home from work till at best 6:40.

I commend my proposal to the House.  Anyone interested?

Paul

[Paul968]

Interesting idea Paul, but the cars in that list are far too widely spread in terms of pace. A DP would only need a couple of laps to make up for a pitstop over a mustang. The DP, corvette and radical though would work.

[Paul Thurston]

Interesting idea Paul, but the cars in that list are far too widely spread in terms of pace. A DP would only need a couple of laps to make up for a pitstop over a mustang. The DP, corvette and radical though would work.

Even with a mandatory tyre change?

Any other ideas for handicapping or giving the Mustang an advantage even?

[Paul968]

Not really Paul - it is in a different league (the conference?  ) in terms of pace. In the ACHF race the mustangs were 17 seconds a lap slower on the rather short cup configuration, although to be fair the track is pretty fast.

[Adam Parle]

It's certainly different!

IMHO the only way this would work would be if the different classes were set a different number of laps to run - but that's not an option.  To level the playing field bewteen the Vette and the Mustang you'd be looking at pitting every third lap.

...maybe if we only let the Vette use gears 1-3 it'd work


Whilst I like the idea of complementing the Sunday series, I'd look at a different way of doing it.

iRacing runs the inRacing Challenge which pits the Solstice and the SRF together, and in terms of a race with multiple car models competing with each other - that's really the only option.

I for one would quite like to race the SRF on some of the smaller circuits .... but I'd rather leave the Solstice out of it.

[Darren Seal]

While the DP, Vette and Radical may work, it's going to be very difficult to balance the cars just by pit stops.  All that will happen is that the majority of the drivers will quickly migrate to the car that has the biggest advantage.

Personally I would prefer for the current Sprint format to continue on Tuesdays.  However, a single make championship where different cars are used each week would be fun.  You could even have two championships alternating weekly.  One open wheel, the other tin top.

Open wheelers: Skippy, Mazda, Dallara, Lotus and F1
Tin tops: MX5, Legends, Late Model, V8, Vette, DP

[Adam Parle]

That's a better proposal - plenty of variety there.

I'm not sure if I'd rather see it as a series or as a series of single races though.  My personal opinion is that swapping between cars makes it a series of single events, but running it in a championship format would likely boost the numbers in the races that might suffer lower attendances.

Alternatively .... we've really not done very much in the Legends on the road ... and they're epic (and everyone owns them) ....



Can I propose alternating between a Legends single make series one week .... and then the open-wheel idea Darren's posted.

[Fred Basset]

Adam, I think we discussed the idea of continually changing the car in the other thread and a number of us thought it a bad idea due to people not being familiar with the car each race. Please remember a number of us don't really like the ACHF format and may not have time for the Endurance league.

I think Paul's idea is a better one with some tweaking, perhaps the corvette, rad and dp as suggested.

Regards
Gary

[Paul Thurston]

That's a better proposal - plenty of variety there.

I'm not sure if I'd rather see it as a series or as a series of single races though.  My personal opinion is that swapping between cars makes it a series of single events, but running it in a championship format would likely boost the numbers in the races that might suffer lower attendances.

Alternatively .... we've really not done very much in the Legends on the road ... and they're epic (and everyone owns them) ....

Can I propose alternating between a Legends single make series one week .... and then the open-wheel idea Darren's posted.

But that's ACHF.  That's a great little format that allows people who like to drive something different every week.

There are a number of us who want to concentrate on one car and either can't or don't want to race in the longer races.  The problem is that everyone wants to concentrate on a different car.

My preference would be another Radical series but I accept that not enough other people want that.  I think we need to find a solution that gives more people at least some of what they want.

[Adam Parle]

Adam, I think we discussed the idea of continually changing the car in the other thread and a number of us thought it a bad idea due to every race due to people not being familiar with it.

TBH I'd rather stick with a car week in week out too - hence the Legends suggestion.  Maybe lets leave ACHF to the car hopping, and run a "proper" series on the Tuesdays if we can drum up the support/numbers for it.


The issue with races that aren't single class, is that - as Darren said - people have a tendancy to go to the strongest car. Even in GTR2 where we messed around with the cars no end to level the performance differences we found that happening. Handicapping cars with pit stops might work, but the amount you can handicap the car in this manner is limited to pretty specific chunks of time - you're likely to either underpenalise them or overpenalise them, I don't really think you could find a balance.

A mixed class sprint race would be fun - but it has to be with each class running separately from the other I think.  Until there are multiple cars in the same category I don't think running a race with all the cars in one class will work - or at least not as the main focus.

In the past we raced the GT2s and GTCs together in GTR2 - with all the cars competing together in the GT2/GTC, but as the GTC cars "should" have been outclassed they also then had a table specificall for them.  (Have a look at UKGTR S5 if I'm not being clear)

The DP/Radical could work like this - let everyone race for the overall win, but let the slower car (in theory the Radical) have a table all for itself.

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

Isn't there a limit of 3 on the number of cars that can be used in a single event?

IIRC there's also an issue with more cars needing more system resources (can't remember if it's core memory, CPU or gaphics memory) which is likely to have a knock on effect on FPS and thus indirectly the quality of racing.

[Adam Parle]

Isn't there a limit of 3 on the number of cars that can be used in a single event?

Think so (if I'm wrong it's Darren's fault )

It also dilutes the field a good bit - I'd definately be in favour of capping it at 2 cars.

.... having said that .... I was thinking if we had sufficient drivers for the S5 finale at Spa it might be cool to introduce a 3rd class .... the DP.

[Fred Basset]

TBH I'd rather stick with a car week in week out too - hence the Legends suggestion.  Maybe lets leave ACHF to the car hopping, and run a "proper" series on the Tuesdays if we can drum up the support/numbers for it.

I thought you said a car, putting the Legend in as a weekly format stretches that definition some way in my book.

Can I suggest we do try to make this a serious series multiple car choices or cars such as the Legends instantly give it an impression of a "beer and bash" format which is of limited or no appeal to some of us.

The issue with races that aren't single class, is that - as Darren said - people have a tendancy to go to the strongest car. Even in GTR2 where we messed around with the cars no end to level the performance differences we found that happening. Handicapping cars with pit stops might work, but the amount you can handicap the car in this manner is limited to pretty specific chunks of time - you're likely to either underpenalise them or overpenalise them, I don't really think you could find a balance.

You could run a different number of stops per track, I do see the problem though.

As you say it would be good if we had different cars in the same class, although I don't think iRacing are pursuing that idea very quickly.

DP at Spa, now you're talking

Regards
Gary

[Adam Parle]

....cars such as the Legends instantly give it an impression of a "beer and bash" format ...

People rocking up unprepared for ANY even threatens to turn it into a festival of shunts.  Just because the Legend isn't widely used for road racing doesn't meant it isn't any good for it.  I would hope that anyone who participates in the SRouk series would have practiced, Legend or FW31, the racing is what we make it - fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

I know it might not be everyone's cup of tea - but unless you're proposing running the same series every week there's room for it or another series.



The smaller gap between the DP and the Radical - not to mention the different characteristics makes it the only viable choice for the mixed grid, one race format, but if we select the right tracks it should make it an interesting proposition.

[Paul Thurston]

There's nothing wrong with the Legends and I agree there's nowhere to race it on road courses.  Maybe we could run a Legends series on alternate Tuesdays to a DP/Radical one?  Using the Rookie Legends would make it more accessible.

I still think we should look at handicapping the DP/Radicals to see if we can even them out.  With just two cars it should be possible.

I didn't know about the three car limit.  How about running an ACHF race with the DP, Rad and Corvette to see what problems people have?