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  • S20Gr Watkins Glen: January 09, 2011
January 09, 2011, 09:41:57 PM +0000 - Watkins Glen (Classic) - UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) Works
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Podkrecony_Ziutek
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 3 +0.309
127.126mph
1 49:40.379
125.000mph
45 1:05.544
126.310mph
Firestone  
Tom van Ostade
 
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 5 +0.388
126.972mph
2 +1.441
124.940mph
45 1:05.121
127.130mph
Firestone  
Samb
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 7 +1.098
125.604mph
3 +36.262
123.497mph
45 1:05.740
125.933mph
Goodyear  
FullMetalGasket
 Black Night Racing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 8 +1.105
125.591mph
4 +50.033
122.936mph
45 1:06.176
125.103mph
Firestone  
fpolicardi
 Team7
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 6 +0.801
126.173mph
5 +58.365
122.599mph
45 1:05.839
125.744mph
Goodyear  
Baab
 
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 2 +0.071
127.592mph
6 +1L
120.940mph
44 1:05.691
126.027mph
Firestone  
Al Heller
 Clark-Hill Racing
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 13 +1.994
123.920mph
7 +2.200
120.852mph
44 1:07.176
123.241mph
Firestone  
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 1 1:04.814
127.732mph
8 (+3) +3L
123.873mph
42 1:05.595
126.211mph
Firestone  
john roberts
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 9 +1.114
125.574mph
9 +18L
120.676mph
27 1:06.337
124.800mph
accident
Goodyear  
b_1_rd
 Clark-Hill Racing
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1967) F1 1967 14 +2.155
123.622mph
10 +26L
119.608mph
19 1:06.701
124.119mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Rick Nauman
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 11 +1.458
124.922mph
11 +33L
121.317mph
12 1:07.062
123.450mph
Disco
Goodyear  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 10 +1.333
125.158mph
12 +41L
118.895mph
4 1:07.218
123.164mph
Disco
Firestone  
kinghiro
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 4 +0.353
127.040mph
13 +44L
113.798mph
1 1:12.551
114.111mph
Disco
Firestone  
Turkey Machine
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 12 +1.897
124.100mph
14 DNS ---
---
Firestone  
6 UKGPL
 
BRM P115 F1 1967 15 15 ---
---
Goodyear  

Moderator's Report

A win in the Grads by Bartosz with Tom leading the championship after six races. Some issues raised re following cars (see below).


Server replay time: 0h01m38s

Bob (Baab) and Hristo.
Hristo is following Bob into big bend when Hristo collides into the rear of Bob. It should be noted Bob braked slightly earlier then normal (less then one second) the reason given that this was lap one with cold tyres and full fuel and he was being extra cautious. This is a perfectly feasible reason and the braking does not appear to be dangerously early.

The rules have this;
"In all cases, the following car is responsible for maintaining a safe gap and the driver needs to be cognizant of the possibility of the lead car slowing for no apparent reason."

Simple Rear End Shunt: Penalty 1 Place
The victim was in full control but braked early (not counting lap 1) compared with the average for the division. The shunter had not followed the victim at a safe distance for a lap or two. The shunter was in full control.

Technically, in view of the above wording, being a lap one incident could put this into Blatant territory however a penalty of 1 place (plus 1 for a lap one incident) is deemed enough in this instance.

  • Hristo Itchovpenalty — Simple Rear End Shunt — 2 places lost


Server replay time: 0h14m57s

Hristo and Rick.
Hristo is following Rick into the loop. Rick is not 100% in control of his car but would have made it through. Hristo hits the rear of Rick. At this point I would like to quote an excerpt from the recommended driver behaviour;

"Never run into the back of someone in front of you. This is probably one of the silliest things one driver can do to another. There’s few excuses here. If you are behind then you have the responsibility to drive in a manner that will not lead to you running into a car ahead. It doesn't matter if you're faster, think you have the right to be let by, are more talented, or think that all slower drivers should not hold up faster drivers. If you're behind someone then that's your tough luck. You have to earn your pass the same as anyone. However frustrated you may be, or whatever, it is your responsibility not to run into the car in front of you. Even if their braking zones occur earlier than yours would normally, then tough luck. You have to anticipate these possibilities and drive accordingly."

It is noted that Rick was not fully in control therefore the rules have this;

Simple Rear End Shunt: Penalty 1 Place
The victim had partially lost control before contact and consequently his line was unusual. The shunter was in full control.

  • Hristo Itchovpenalty — Simple Rear End Shunt — 1 place lost

January 10, 2011, 12:41:25 PM +0000 - Watkins Glen (Classic) - UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) Privateers
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
il_lupo_mannaro
 
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 2 +0.533
123.488mph
1 51:05.826
121.544mph
45 1:07.189
123.245mph
Firestone  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 3 +0.697
123.186mph
2 +6.813
121.274mph
45 1:06.425
124.663mph
Goodyear  
Ronniepeterson
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 1 1:06.524
124.477mph
3 +13.280
121.019mph
45 1:06.572
124.387mph
Goodyear  
Billy Nobrakes
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 4 +1.158
122.347mph
4 +1L
116.852mph
44 1:08.164
121.482mph
Goodyear  
maddog
 Antipasti Racing
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 5 +1.442
121.836mph
5 +25.071
115.920mph
44 1:07.884
121.983mph
Firestone  
Nigel Smith
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 7 +2.285
120.343mph
6 +2L
114.440mph
43 1:08.901
120.183mph
Firestone  
hannah
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 8 +2.867
119.334mph
7 +9L
108.987mph
36 1:09.809
118.619mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Michael Turner
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1967) F1 1967 6 +1.463
121.798mph
8 +11L
116.766mph
34 1:08.231
121.363mph
Disco
Goodyear  
BadBlood
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 9 +6.828
112.890mph
9 +21L
102.025mph
24 1:12.953
113.507mph
Disco
Firestone  
2 UKGPL_T7
 
BRM P115 F1 1967 10 10 DNS ---
---
Goodyear  

Moderator's Report

A maiden win in the Privateers for Fabio puts him in with a shot at the title, well done. This leaves Bernie, Ronnie and Fabio the toppermost of the poppermost.


Server replay time: 0h06m42s

Ronnie hits Paul Badblood while attempting to pass. On the face of it this leans towards an ambitous overtake scenario.
However, Ronnie was much faster (the rules have this; 'Some discretion may be afforded if there was a vast difference in ability between the drivers'), and it appears to be a case of confusion by both parties. Paul had no intention of resisting Ronnie but both appear to have misread each other as to which side the pass was going to be. That said the onus is always on the overtaking driver and perhaps he should have considered backing off until the upcoming straight.

Under the circumstances a caution to Ronnie to take extra care when passing a slower driver is appropriate.


Server replay time: 0h11m11s

Fabio goes to pass Hannah and ends up alongside him going into the corner. There is a contact of sorts. Contact in that Hannah is knocked out BUT on both the server and Fabio's replay he cannot be held to be fully aware of any impact and carries on as normal. Normally this could be construed as warp contact but, in this instance, the contact appears inevitable. Hence, discounting warp as a scenario, there was an opportunity to Hannah's right and Fabio can be seen in his mirrors pulling out and dissappearing ie Hannah must assume Fabio is on his right approaching the turn.

Therefore this seems most appropriate;
"Contested Side by Side contact: Racing Incident
In a corner, after a legitimate overtaking attempt the cars end up side by side. Both drivers move over instead of staying on their own side of the track. Contact is made. Racing Incident."

Admittedly Fabio did not move over as such but it would not seem appropriate to penalise Hannah ('In a corner, after a legitimate overtaking attempt the cars end up side by side. One driver moves over instead of staying on their own side of the track. Contact is made. Penalty for driver that moves over') in this instance.

  • Racing incident

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Watkins Glen (GP) - Jan 9  (Read 13562 times)
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Samb
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2011, 11:30:23 PM +0000 »

Great race that, and I actually managed to finish this one  Shocked. The Brabham was a delight through the corners but a complete sod on the brakes and on full tanks. I guess because the BRM is so heavy, I never really tended to notice the added weight in fuel  Roll Eyes. Qualified 6th and had a reasonable start, but lost a place to Tim at The Loop and spend the next 10 laps following him. Eventually my canoes-for-feet got the better of me and I pressed the accelerator and brake and speared off at the Big Bend.

I spent the next 20 laps catching Tim, and eventually began to hound him only for him to spear off at the last bend thanks to his PC having other ideas. Soon after that H was nipping at my heels and I cracked and spun off again at the Big Bend. It looked like I was set for 4th place but that turned out to be 3rd after H had an off at The Loop after he had a massive FPS drop. Bad luck there.

So I inherited a lucky podium which is a nice way to kickstart 2011  Smiley. Congrats to Bartosz and Tom, on 1st and 2nd. If only I can get used to the Brabham on cold tyres.....
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BadBlood
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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2011, 11:49:21 PM +0000 »

Absolutely woeful from me - tried to drive well within myself but clipped Hannah after he span which put me in the armco and cost me a lot of time. Never mind - tootle round and see what happens I thought.

I can only manage a 1:11 in a Honda so I was lapping at 1:13 nice and easy when Ronnie caught me from behind after I tried to let him past - one for the moderators but I fear the worst. Needed a Shift R and with the SnG I was four laps down! Slow and steady I thought - let lots of people through and just tried for consistency but on lap 25 just clipped the grass at the Loop and span ONTO the hay bales - my luck sure was missing.

Should have been a bit more gung ho. Went offline and did some practice and stuck in a 1:11.5 straight away <sigh>

Lessons learned but I definitely have some points - there were only nine of us but there may be some other points on the way.

Good learning experience but terrible race. Onwards and upwards.
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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2011, 08:41:14 AM +0000 »

Qualified mid field but soon found myself in fourth and with the front of the pack still in view. Unfortunately the usually bulletproof Eagle engine decided to shed a crankshaft after a couple of laps which shattered any hope of a respectable finish. Due to others' misfortunes I eventually worked my way up to 5th but a loss of concentration led to a silly mistake and an encounter with the haybales. End of race with a few laps to go.

I've just bought myself a new computer (well, secondhand via eBay actually but a massive upgrade on the one I currently have) so we'll see if that improves my driving. Cheesy
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Ronniepeterson
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« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2011, 09:07:58 AM +0000 »

Apologies again Paul. I never meant to collect you on the way past and thought a safe gap was opening up. But it was me doing the overtaking and me who hit you so no blame in your direction from me. Sorry.

Back to the rest of the racing. Having got away at the start taking it too cautiously resulted in an early spin giving Fabio the lead which he was never to relinquish. A recurrence of the same cautious approach towards the end of the race handed back second place to a hard chasing Bernie, tough to pass and impossible to lose. It was hard work trying to stay focused for 45 laps so hats off again to Fabio and Bernie for driving so well.
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BadBlood
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« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2011, 09:47:38 AM +0000 »

Just one of those things Ronnie - I was committing the sin of being too cautious as well.

Learnt a lot though which is the point when you are where I am
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BadBlood

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bernie
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« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2011, 12:48:43 PM +0000 »

I had qually problems as usual , couldnt settle in spun off a few times pressing too hard and to top it all I blew an engine , so for the race I fitted taller gearing in the hope of sparing the mill and a softer rear bar to aid rear tyre temps .

Got a half decent start and set off in persuite of Mad Ronnie and the Flying Fabio with Maddog Martin chomping at my pipes. I had already abandoned hopes of keeping Martin behind and sure enough he made a sling shot up the inside going into the Loop , How he got round there was unbeleivable , full sideways on biggest slide I ever saw and the tyre smoke should have left him on bare rims , but he gathered it all together was somehow still in front coming out of the corner . A few laps later he lost it coming out of the final turn , the same one which seems to spell disaster for so many , including Ronnie who gave me a very hard time after recovering from his early off.
Ronnie had been pressing hard for a few laps and finally managed to draught alongside on the back straight , side by side into BIg Bend it was a case of "he who dares wins" I dared and lost when my front wheels locked up and I skated into the ditch handing Ronnie the place . Set of in P3 and was suprised to see Ronnie off again at the final bend . So P2 it was . I set off after Fabio using a few more RPM's in the hope of unsettling him but the gap was too large and he was long gone , ended with a PB and FLOTD on my final tour so was quite pleased with the result .
Grats to Fabio commiserations to Ronnie (again) and Teamy Mike who was doing good in P4 for so long , hope the new tackle works out for you mate .

Soggies Rules  Grin

 
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2011, 12:49:08 PM +0000 »

It looked like I was set for 4th place but that turned out to be 3rd after H had an off at The Loop after he had a massive FPS drop. Bad luck there.

No, Sam, I didn't have any FPS drop, it was completely my fault for going off. When you asked about lag in post-race chat I thought you meant something else, that's why I said "yes".

Qualifying was really competitive and I narrowly took pole from Bob, but it amazes me that I'm still whole 2 tenths off a pb which I set 9 years ago when I first started driving online with a joystick. For some reason I can't control the car well at Watkins and despite trying all sorts of setup changes, it didn't help.

The start caught me out a bit when the flagman didn't wait too much to drop the green flag, but I managed to stay in front until The Loop where Bob made his move and we went around the corner side by side. This compromised our exit speed significantly and what happened next is partially due to that.

Bob's Lotus naturally gained an advantage down the straight leading to Big Bend and so I slotted behind, with the other cars following close by and having a battle of their own. I began to lift up a bit to account for any possible early braking from Bob, but he really overdid by braking some 50 meters earlier than normal, and as much as I tried to slow down and avoid tapping him, it didn't work out and so we collided, going off as a result.

It seemed other people were either involved or went off on their own as well, so it took some time to get a clear road and return in the race. Bob returned in front of me so we resumed the chase, but this time in 12th position or so.

Just as I thought, GPLRA shows that we both suffered engine problems as well as some minor suspension damage, and I couldn't use the full capacity of the revs. It felt like missing a single cylinder or something. Even so, I had the speed to keep up with those in front and reel them in, and in the next few laps I passed a few people with Bob doing the same in front.

Eventually he lost more speed and let me by, so I continued the chase on my own and caught up with some faster drivers who were harder to pass. Rick was one of them and I closed-in on him in the Esses, but then for some reason he swerved right and left on the exit of the fast right-hander leading onto the Front Straight. He must've also applied some brakes as well which was really unexpected, so I narrowly avoided him.

Rick stayed in front until The Loop and I was following behind when suddenly near the exit of the corner he again seemed to have swerved a bit and hit the brakes just when we were hard on acceleration. This resulted in a contact and Rick went off. I continued without losing too much time, but now had Sam some 6 seconds up ahead and he proved very hard to catch up.

I took the majority of the remaining laps to close up on him and at one point I thought it won't be possible, but in one of those laps he lost 1-2 seconds and now I had him well in sight. Our battle never happened though as he went off on his own and so now I was in 3rd, with Bartosz and Tom totally out of reach 20 seconds ahead.

Finally, with 3 laps to go, I went too fast into The Loop and almost made it through, but a little touch of the grass edge at the rear spun the car around and the haybale flipped it over onto the armco, and that was it. It's a shame because 3rd would've been really nice considering all the problems.

Grats to Bartosz, Tom and Sam for making up the podium!
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maddog
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« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2011, 01:07:04 PM +0000 »

The last F1 driver who actually enjoyed wearing the number 13, was Mike Hawthorn, who won the championship in 1958.  He promptly retired, and didn't survive for long afterwards!  It's remained unpopular since.  First there was MH, then Apollo 13, and now me!  I must have words with Tim, at being thrown this number ag'in.  Grumble!

My Cooper was a one speed car - any faster and it would get upset and slow me down.  On cold tyres at the start, I was able to push harder, and held second spot for a couple of laps.  After that, it was a mater of making sure the tyres, were nice and evenly done by race end.  This wasn't helped, by the use of one or two harmless spins along the way, to break the monotony. Roll Eyes

With only a lap left, my car did a number on me . . . t'was about to become fuelless!  I'd foolishly not fuelled it enough . . . or had I?   I wondered if I could survive more than a lap on what little remained.  Billy was around 15 seconds behind, after my minor excursions, so with enough speed and some fumes?  Decided it was not to be.  Reset, and pitted on the last corner, of the last lap, with 4th spot relinquished in the process.

It looked like there was some great racing up front, with Fabio stalwartly hanging on to 1st - "Bravo maestro!" and Bernie and Ronnie swapping 2nd to keep themselves entertained.  There could be worse things to do on a Sunday evening - provided your car doesn't do a number on you!  Angry

     
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Billy Nobrakes
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« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2011, 02:15:29 PM +0000 »

About as good as could be expected. Started on P4 & finished 4th – although it really should have been 5th but was gifted the place because Martin wanted to save 2 shillings & sixpence by skimping on that last gallon fuel.
I do quite like the One x Shift R rule. Based on substantial historical evidence I suspected my ability to survive the Loop 45 times were limited & sure enough about mid race I had an encounter with the haybales. Having one life-line allows for one indiscretion but does encourage diligent driving – for example I popped an engine in qually so I was careful to keep the revs in check at the expense of a little speed.

Ronnie, Fabio & Bernie seem to be setting to pace this season. Nevertheless enjoyed my midfield battles with Mike, Nigel even if they were mostly settled by driver errors. Also a note of thanks to Paul and Hannah. I’m not used to lapping cars but when it did happen they left an obvious gap at the right time.

I think this was Fabio’s first win in a 67 UKGPL race – well done.
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vosblod
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« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2011, 02:47:54 PM +0000 »

Results uploaded and replays in the usual place, any Incident Reports by close of play Friday please. A review of the Privateers shows everyone complied with the single reset rule.
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Baab
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« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2011, 08:06:23 PM +0000 »

Decided to splash out on the Lotus again for this round and it was shaping up nicely.  I was surprised to qually 2nd and only just behind H, who I didn't expect to get anywhere near.  Come the start and I got away reasonably, surprised by the quick flag.  The lotus power then enabled me to pass H into the loop, where I almost lost it.  The power then took me past again before the fateful shunt from H.  Quite an extravagent impact, my car flying through the air.  I did brake a bit early, anxious not to throw it away so soon, it still being L1 and all, but can't agree with 50m too early, from the replay 10-20m max.  (Something else here, I am not as good as H so he probably brakes later anyway, for reference I was usually braking in the lighter bit where the racing line breaks).

I was able to rejoin but the engine had lost power and it felt as if I had traction control, gutless out of the corners and only taking 5th more than halfway down the straights.  Not sure if that was anything to do with my later spins, etc, I was pushing quite a bit into the corners though.  Caught and somehow managed to pass a few cars before I saw H behind me.  He seemed to be quicker and I wasn't sure how much damage he had so let him by.

I was soon lapped by Bartoz but was able to keep his pace for a while.  Pleased to finally finish 6th, but was hoping for better after splashing out!
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EvilClive
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« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2011, 08:24:58 PM +0000 »

Just been allowed my 1st 10 minute break from her flogging for my pathetic performance. Undecided

I was quite content with my race pace at around 1:06.5 on full tanks, although my quali time was hardly any better. After some early shuffling off of the grid and a couple of haybale harpooners at the Loop I found myself tucked up behind Samb's Brabham and just ahead of him that ex-waza Tim. This was ok for the early race and I was happy just cruising along waiting for the fuel load to drop a little.

But, when you are not concentrating fully and your mind wanders, you start looking at Prib to learn where all the usual suspects are that you cannot see ahead or in your mirrors. Its about then that you realise you have missed your braking marker for the Loop and ............

ouch!,,!!!  owwww!!!! ooooooh!!  Yes!! I will concentrate next time !!! Yes Maam!! I'm very sorry. it won't happen again!!  ouch!!........ scared scared
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« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2011, 08:50:56 PM +0000 »

ouch!,,!!!  owwww!!!! ooooooh!!  Yes!! I will concentrate next time !!! Yes Maam!! I'm very sorry. it won't happen again!!  ouch!!........ scared scared

You lucky b*****d, you lucky luck b*****d!

All I got from Gundy was a glare!  A long cold despising stare!! It's worse than torture!  I wish he'd just hit me, twice, with the ceremonial wand!!  I can't stand it anymore!!

Some rare footage of a CHR pre race briefing....don't tell everyone!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFB8WeElPdE
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Steve

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« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2011, 11:57:55 PM +0000 »

Very convincing , a little bit worrying about the possible long term effects of eating all that sushi   Undecided

Could I perhaps suggest a nice juicy steak pie or two , say twice a week for starters , might help to re adjust the hormone imbalance   Roll Eyes

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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2011, 12:40:08 AM +0000 »

@Bob - I doubt I brake later, especially in the Honda compared to your Lotus. And I also didn't expect the early braking considering we had a much slower exit off The Loop, so those 2 things were a factor, plus the fact that I had cars glued to my back and wanted to avoid being rearended myself. Bit of a doomed situation and then there was also the warp exagerating the contact... a shame.  Undecided

@Evil, you know well that Pribluda is the real evil... - uninstall it once!!! Roll Eyes
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