UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Watkins Glen (GP) - Jan 9

[Al Heller]

First I'd like to congratulate my teammate Bartosz on a great & well-deserved debut win in Works WD to Tommie & Sam for the podium too.

I was feeling all GPL'ed out towards the season break so during the Christmas hols I mothballed my wheel & only dusted it down again a few hours before the race. Pleased to find that a quick practice refreshed my lost mojo somewhat but I was a bit rusty & a persistent man-cold wasn't helping my progress. Well whatever the excuses, I clearly wasn't going to be fast enough so I just took the cheapest car that I thought I could get round the Loop 45 times (Cooper) bolted on my base setup & hoped for the best. Quallied on the back row but unfortunately got collected at Big Bend by a spinning Brab on L1 so found myself separated from the rest of the pack. After that I just tried to keep a consistent pace but despite my best efforts just couldn't find enough speed to fend off anyone. Last of the finishers... hoping to do better next time out.

[Tom van Ostade]

Hi all,

Well, that went quite well actually! Was struggling slightly in qualifying, but still managed to quali in a posisition from which something was possible. Although surprised by the quick drop of the flag I was still very well off the line and had to hold back not to rearend Bartosz. Didn't want to switch lines as well so just tried sticking as close to him whilst not running into Hiro at the same time. It worked and when Hiro took a wide line into T2 I could overtake him for P4.

There was now a reasonable gap between the front three and the leaders, with Hiro having lost momentum as well behind me so I was in a comfortable position. Managed to get a little bit closer at the Loop when Hristo and Bob's accident accured (which in my book is H's fault but that aside, I'm no admin ). Bob scared the heck out of me when he warped right across the track in front of me, but it didn't cause anymore problems for me thankfully.

I then set on to chase Bartosz but he was doing a very good job running fast times. Suddenly and unexpectedly I spun at the last corner. I was starting to wonder if the Glen was trying to get even with me, after all it was going a little bit too well. I was now 8 seconds back but managed to recover before Tim in his Waza could catch me. I even managed to shrink the gap down to 5 seconds before I spun again on the last corner! I was about to set P1 out of my head but seeing the gap being only 10 seconds I figured I might as well push a little bit harder, without risking everything by going flat out. I also promised to myself not to brake so late into the last corner anymore.

Bit by made I gained a little bit on Bartosz almost every lap, so I got the gap from 10 seconds about 25 laps before the finish, to 1 second in the last lap. However Bartosz did a very good job, drove fast and clean so I ran out of time to really challenge him and try an overtake. But I was and am still really happy with P2, Bartosz really deserved this one, he was fast and didn't make any mistakes where everyone else did.

Grats to Bartosz and Sam, and to the podium of the Privateers!

Tommie.

[fpolicardi]

really looked forward to this race and did some practice. pleased with my 105.17. qual.took a defensive line into the bend l2. the gap to the car behind was big enough and I brake a bit early and soft. smashed out.I was in a 50 50 desicion to just stick to left and let myself be outbraked.Just a tad closer and I would done that. too dangerous to defend there the hole race but I would see if I could shake him off first.If I braked on the ideal line he would very likely be in my blindspot when it was time to turn in. I wanted him in my mirrors. that was my desicion this time anyway.ofc that brings in the danger of getting smashed ,but I thought the gap was big enough.maybe next lap if the situation was the same I would have gone wide. I was "supposed " to go faster than him should do low 6 s in the early laps. anyway if not, I would have let him pass a lap or two later if he kept getting attackpositions(learned something from my very defensive driving early at zeltweg amateurs some months ago ).will my dnf s never stop? 8 in a row if I count in the race I finished with bent wheel for 10 laps. Used some hours to modify my gearstick too and it doesn t slip out of third anymore. Didn t help much tonight, but in the long run It s good to have one less thing to worry about.
oh yes...the start was fun. my teammate bart had a real nice 5.12 q and we went out side by side.I took a wideline that made me loose so much speed that tom passed me.exciting yet  clean start. .

Sry again Tom. It wasn't a pass attempt, only when I braked your car came closer and closer and I said "oh my god again this night!"
I had an iRacing race before and at first lap I rearended the car ahead in the same way, I think I had more lag than usual last night that caught me off guard.

Ciao

[Rick Nauman]

... Rick was one of them and I closed-in on him in the Esses, but then for some reason he swerved right and left on the exit of the fast right-hander leading onto the Front Straight. He must've also applied some brakes as well which was really unexpected, so I narrowly avoided him.

"Some reason" perhaps would be that I had lost a bit of control and was gathering it back in.  And no, I didn't apply the brakes.  No behavior there worthy of a fist wave.

Rick stayed in front until The Loop and I was following behind when suddenly near the exit of the corner he again seemed to have swerved a bit and hit the brakes just when we were hard on acceleration. This resulted in a contact and Rick went off. I continued without losing too much time

Again I got a bit wiggly and again, no, I didn't apply brakes.  This time you had 5 seconds to observe my instability but in your impatience you elected not to take the different line to the outside which I had wanted to leave open to you on the exit.  Really sorry that my lack of total mastery of the sport nearly cost you 3 to 5 seconds.  My new race strategy needs to be "stay behind the fast guys."  Maybe you can help by not getting yourself into situations that put me ahead of you.

[Hristo Itchov]

Again I got a bit wiggly and again, no, I didn't apply brakes.  This time you had 5 seconds to observe my instability but in your impatience you elected not to take the different line to the outside which I had wanted to leave open to you on the exit.  Really sorry that my lack of total mastery of the sport nearly cost you 3 to 5 seconds.  My new race strategy needs to be "stay behind the fast guys."  Maybe you can help by not getting yourself into situations that put me ahead of you.

Oh come on, Rick, 5 seconds?! You were as quick from the mid-corner (The Loop) onward and we were having just about the same acceleration, and given that the corner is taken flat out on the exit and that you had a superior car, it was impossible to do anything about avoiding you. You lost speed all of a sudden, it was not a gradual loss of control which I could've predicted. Nobody expects someone to slow down on a part of the track which is taken flat out, especially when they normally have the speed to be as fast as you and when you're fighting with them for position.

As for fist waving, I believe it's appropriate and justifies my frustration at that specific moment.

[Tom van Ostade]

Again I got a bit wiggly and again, no, I didn't apply brakes.  This time you had 5 seconds to observe my instability but in your impatience you elected not to take the different line to the outside which I had wanted to leave open to you on the exit.  Really sorry that my lack of total mastery of the sport nearly cost you 3 to 5 seconds.  My new race strategy needs to be "stay behind the fast guys."  Maybe you can help by not getting yourself into situations that put me ahead of you.

Oh come on, Rick, 5 seconds?! You were as quick from the mid-corner (The Loop) onward and we were having just about the same acceleration, and given that the corner is taken flat out on the exit and that you had a superior car, it was impossible to do anything about avoiding you. You lost speed all of a sudden, it was not a gradual loss of control which I could've predicted. Nobody expects someone to slow down on a part of the track which is taken flat out, especially when they normally have the speed to be as fast as you and when you're fighting with them for position.

As for fist waving, I believe it's appropriate and justifies my frustration at that specific moment.

This reply makes me want to pull over as soon as I see a Waza in my mirrors .

Tom.

[Hristo Itchov]

This reply makes me want to pull over as soon as I see a Waza in my mirrors .

Tom.

Maybe you can give us an example how it should be done? I suppose you know in advance when someone is going to suddenly slow down ahead of you in a place on the track that is taken flat out, or when someone is going to brake 30 meters earlier than normal. Teach me how to do miracles, Tom, because it's very easy to talk from the side with a know-it-all attitude...

It's one thing wrecking someone because you drive as if there's nobody in front of you and a completely different thing when the driver ahead of you does something out of ordinary and unpredictable, and you don't have enough time to avoid contact. If you want to race with someone else, either be predictable and be ready to face the consequences. Just being ahead of someone doesn't lift up any responsibility off your shoulders.

To me it's the risks of close racing and such situations are simply racing incidents. Either that or you should never fight with anybody on the track.

[Tom van Ostade]

This reply makes me want to pull over as soon as I see a Waza in my mirrors .

Tom.

Maybe you can give us an example how it should be done? I suppose you know in advance when someone is going to suddenly slow down ahead of you in a place on the track that is taken flat out, or when someone is going to brake 30 meters earlier than normal. Teach me how to do miracles, Tom, because it's very easy to talk from the side with a know-it-all attitude...

It's one thing wrecking someone because you drive as if there's nobody in front of you and a completely different thing when the driver ahead of you does something out of ordinary and unpredictable, and you don't have enough time to avoid contact. If you want to race with someone else, either be predictable and be ready to face the consequences. Just being ahead of someone doesn't lift up any responsibility off your shoulders.

To me it's the risks of close racing and such situations are simply racing incidents. Either that or you should never fight with anybody on the track.

I overtook some people at Mexico . It was clear Rick was having some problems with his Brabham, also from your close encounter with him a corner earlier. It would maybe have been better to observe how Rick went through the Loop without pushing, and if he got through OK start putting a little bit of pressure on him and observe his weak spots for a lap or two.

In case of a rearend collision, the driver behind is always at fault, except when the driver in front purposefully does something to increase the risk of the driver behind overtaking him. The driver behind can anticipate the situation much better than the driver in front which gives him an advantage. The driver in front cannot control the situation so he should focus on the racing, untill the driver behind moves alongside, usually just before a corner. When this happens the driver in front should leave room on the inside so he doesn't run into the driver behind. In my opinion .

There are always going to be unexpected things when running close to each other. Therefore the driver behind has to keep some kind of safety margin at first, by observing the driver in front, to make sure the future pass is done succesfully and without a collision. You also need to make sure that when you are about to pass someone he knows where you are. I usually do this by trailing his inside rear wheel on the straight prior to the corner, so he can spot me in his mirrors.

Tom.

[Hristo Itchov]

I overtook some people at Mexico .

Oh, I see, you think I had always ended up hitting people instead of overtaking them. 

It was clear Rick was having some problems with his Brabham, also from your close encounter with him a corner earlier. It would maybe have been better to observe how Rick went through the Loop without pushing, and if he got through OK start putting a little bit of pressure on him and observe his weak spots for a lap or two.

It was clear? You weren't even there! If you mean looking at the replay, how was it clear he had a problem? He simply lost control due to pushing too hard. And assuming he had a problem, why did he keep fighting me at full pace instead of making way? You make no sense. When you accept to fight with someone and you're being unpredictable, don't blame it on someone...

In case of a rearend collision, the driver behind is always at fault, except when the driver in front purposefully does something to increase the risk of the driver behind overtaking him. The driver behind can anticipate the situation much better than the driver in front which gives him an advantage. The driver in front cannot control the situation so he should focus on the racing, untill the driver behind moves alongside, usually just before a corner. When this happens the driver in front should leave room on the inside so he doesn't run into the driver behind. In my opinion .

OK, Tom, let's go in a server and I'll let you follow me very close, then I'll slow down suddenly somewhere where you normally go flat out, then you tell me it's always the driver behind who is at fault. 

The driver behind can only anticipate things which are within the normaly boundaries of racing and that excludes everything which is the opposite of what's expected. Otherwise you expect miracles from people and it's rather arrogant when you can't do such things yourself (or maybe you can?).

You speak about moving alongside, but I guess it hasn't dawned on you that this is only possible if you close up completely within the slipstream, especially if you're in a slower car. You're simplying things so much that you're missing the essentials.

There are always going to be unexpected things when running close to each other. Therefore the driver behind has to keep some kind of safety margin at first, by observing the driver in front, to make sure the future pass is done succesfully and without a collision. You also need to make sure that when you are about to pass someone he knows where you are. I usually do this by trailing his inside rear wheel on the straight prior to the corner, so he can spot me in his mirrors.

Tom.

In some situations you cannot afford to stick behind a driver for many laps and figure out where he makes mistakes before you make your move. The race is only a limited number of laps and you take up any opportunity that arises. Besides, even if you follow someone for 10 laps, he can still make a mistake you don't expect, so it's rather pointless assuming you can increase your safety margin by much just by following behind.

And you're speaking of passing - who is passing who here? I wasn't making any passes. It has nothing to do with passing...

I really don't understand why you make irritating comments like "I think it was H's fault but I'll leave to the admins" and the likes, how does it involve you at all and who's asking you? To me it's obvious what you're trying to do, but it's just laughable.

[vosblod]

Not to comment on this in particular, I wasn't there, but don't forget you can report incidents via the srou system (see top of thread 'submit an incident report'). I don't think reporting should be seen as a last resort and anything you submit is confidential. The moderating system is in place to review any incidents impartially based on the UKGPL guidelines/rules.

[Baab]

so it's down to 30m now is it H?!!! Just winding you up, not that you need it, Tom certainly got a bite.

Calm down fella, no need to try and explain away every little issue.  If you criticize others you've gotta expect summat coming back atcha.  Only a friggin race, starting to worry how much this means to you.  Have a beer (assuming you drink), I can heartily recommend Weihenstephan Hefeweissbier, it's a quality beverage.

Bob.

[il_lupo_mannaro]

Such a fantastic race! The Glen is one of my favourite track and my first win at UKGPL happened there nearly two years ago...
Sunday I did the same but, in a 67 car, it tastes... soooo good!!!

I started the race from 2nd place and, luckily for me, Ronnie spun at the end of the second lap and I said goodbye to everybody
It wasn't so easy to keep the concentration for 44 laps and I had heartache when lapping some drivers but in the end I saw first the chequered flag

Grats to all the drivers and to the race organization

See you all in the hot South Africa

LONG LIVE GPL, LONG LIVE UKGPL!!

[Hristo Itchov]

so it's down to 30m now is it H?!!! Just winding you up, not that you need it, Tom certainly got a bite.

Calm down fella, no need to try and explain away every little issue.  If you criticize others you've gotta expect summat coming back atcha.  Only a friggin race, starting to worry how much this means to you.  Have a beer (assuming you drink), I can heartily recommend Weihenstephan Hefeweissbier, it's a quality beverage.

Bob.

I spoke from memory, you checked the replay, so I believed you and said what it is. 30 or 50 doesn't make a difference, does it? In a way, the reason for which I said 50 was because we could easily brake some 20 meters later than usual after our compromised exit from The Loop.

I'm calm, but when someone speaks about things that involve me without being objective, I can't keep silent. Unless we resolve any such disagreements, these things will keep happening again and again, so no, it's not just one race, but it affects our racing in general.

[Tom van Ostade]

I overtook some people at Mexico .

Oh, I see, you think I had always ended up hitting people instead of overtaking them. 

It was clear Rick was having some problems with his Brabham, also from your close encounter with him a corner earlier. It would maybe have been better to observe how Rick went through the Loop without pushing, and if he got through OK start putting a little bit of pressure on him and observe his weak spots for a lap or two.

It was clear? You weren't even there! If you mean looking at the replay, how was it clear he had a problem? He simply lost control due to pushing too hard. And assuming he had a problem, why did he keep fighting me at full pace instead of making way? You make no sense. When you accept to fight with someone and you're being unpredictable, don't blame it on someone...

In case of a rearend collision, the driver behind is always at fault, except when the driver in front purposefully does something to increase the risk of the driver behind overtaking him. The driver behind can anticipate the situation much better than the driver in front which gives him an advantage. The driver in front cannot control the situation so he should focus on the racing, untill the driver behind moves alongside, usually just before a corner. When this happens the driver in front should leave room on the inside so he doesn't run into the driver behind. In my opinion .

OK, Tom, let's go in a server and I'll let you follow me very close, then I'll slow down suddenly somewhere where you normally go flat out, then you tell me it's always the driver behind who is at fault. 

The driver behind can only anticipate things which are within the normaly boundaries of racing and that excludes everything which is the opposite of what's expected. Otherwise you expect miracles from people and it's rather arrogant when you can't do such things yourself (or maybe you can?).

You speak about moving alongside, but I guess it hasn't dawned on you that this is only possible if you close up completely within the slipstream, especially if you're in a slower car. You're simplying things so much that you're missing the essentials.

There are always going to be unexpected things when running close to each other. Therefore the driver behind has to keep some kind of safety margin at first, by observing the driver in front, to make sure the future pass is done succesfully and without a collision. You also need to make sure that when you are about to pass someone he knows where you are. I usually do this by trailing his inside rear wheel on the straight prior to the corner, so he can spot me in his mirrors.

Tom.

In some situations you cannot afford to stick behind a driver for many laps and figure out where he makes mistakes before you make your move. The race is only a limited number of laps and you take up any opportunity that arises. Besides, even if you follow someone for 10 laps, he can still make a mistake you don't expect, so it's rather pointless assuming you can increase your safety margin by much just by following behind.

And you're speaking of passing - who is passing who here? I wasn't making any passes. It has nothing to do with passing...

I really don't understand why you make irritating comments like "I think it was H's fault but I'll leave to the admins" and the likes, how does it involve you at all and who's asking you? To me it's obvious what you're trying to do, but it's just laughable.

Sorry to wind you up like that H. I was really just stating my opinion about the incidents without considering how much it might have upset you. What do you say we fight it out at Kyalami in a few weeks time? Bring it on .

Tom.

[Hristo Itchov]

No bad feelings, Tom, I'm just trying to make myself clear. It won't affect my racing in any way, whether it's racing you or someone else, I play by the same rules. Kya, yuck... don't count on me doing much at that one.