iRacing Season 5 Endurance - Daytona Road - Jan 30

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

Looking forward to this. Will there be a pracci session for those old enough not to have anything better to do on Saturday night?

I'm using the official iRacing 2.4H race as a warm up.

[popabawa]

The Mustang definitely feels different, braking into T1 seems a lot more controllable to me

I've done quite a few races around Daytona Road in different cars and the racing has always been pretty decent.

[Adam Parle]

I hadn't thought about a practice session ... it'll be a little redundant if everyone is doing the Rolex 2.4.

Unfortunatlely the Rolex starts too early for me to attend - and the Vette drivers need something to do .... so yes, I'll set up a server.

[Samu81]

I'll write my race report rather here than at iRacing's forums 

Results:

http://members.iracing.com/membersite/member/EventResult.do?&subsessionid=3028331&custid=18021


Well yet again I came to server without any practice what so ever. In fact last time than I drove Mustang was our league race at Laguna Seca 2 weeks ago. So getting used to it after practicing and driving only DP for the iRacing’s Rolex Daytona 2.4h event was really taking time. I managed to get one decent lap at practice, a tad under 2:04 but I was way too inconsistent. At qualifying I had major problems with traffic and my setup and it was really close that I wouldnt have any Q -time at all, lol. Fortunately when time was allmost out I got one lap, even that full of driving erros. I was really disappointed.

During early stages of race we had really good fight going on with Dario untill some lapping Vettes almost took him out and “gave” lead to me around lap 11. Before the race I havent had any idea about how much I should take fuel so I had taken full tank and decided to drive as long as it lasts. As race progressed I got more and more familiar with the setup and the car (proper driving lines, braking points etc) so I was able to pull a small gap untill Dario got crashed into (?) around lap 17 or 18. Really shame Especially because I had major problems with my car when it got lighter. Car was a real handfull so who knows what would have happened if Dario would have had a clean race and stay with me.
 
After Dario got taken out I just went to safe mode so to speak and really yelded each and every Vette as much as I could. I did my only stop around lap 35 (out of Mustangs total of 57 laps) and after that car felt somehow better. I was able to push more and got some decent laptimes even while still avoiding / yelding for Vettes really much. To sum it up; few hairy moments but otherwise really good race with polite drivers. I enjoy more these races than ie. official Grand Am –series average races that I drove at S4 / 2010.
 But few notices after qualifying session:

-If you blow your fast lap, whats the point to block drivers behind after it?
-If you come out of the pits, ie. you’re at your warm-up –lap, why divebomb or otherwise ruin Mustang’s lap who are at their flying lap?

Mustang overshot one corner in front of me and blew his flying lap there, yet he didnt gave me any room but rather blocked my line so that my fast lap was also ruined.
Vette spun out in front of me, I didnt suffer there, but after he rejoined track and catched me he decided to overtake me at such a place that my fast lap was again ruined.

I know that 15 min isnt much time to qualify but please respect other drives and their attempts to have a good Q –time, thanks!

[Samu81]

Now, that's not going to be a popular comment, so allow me to clarify. Actually, this might not be popular either... Hm. Anyway:

I *know* how hard it is to drive a slower class car in a race like this, it's incredibly difficult and a great deal of patience, foresight, and compromise is required. Yet, while some are absolutely capable in even the most complex traffic situations, that doesn't extend to all.

I'll mention two people in particular here - Adam Parle, who in both of these races I've done has managed to read every situation thrown at him expertly, and Simon Gymer who in addition to that managed to do it in my 2.4 split yesterday as well with arguably even more bloodthirsty DPs. I think I can speak for Simon T and James as well here; these two are among people - and there are others; most actually - that it's possible to implicitly trust in worst case scenarios.

At several points during the race however, I found myself in a few dodgy situations:

1) A Mustang allows two Corvettes through on exit of a corner, then switches abruptly to the other side of the road in front of me, running as far to the right as possible before a left hander as if to say 'come on through, here's a massive gap for you' before turning in on me at the apex despite the fact that I'd been on that side of the road the whole time. This happened 2-3 times, one topped off with being called an idiot followed by ragequit.

2) A Mustang driving in the middle of the road at various points on the track, umming and aahing about what to do, twiddling thumbs, and then at the last second using a combination of tarot cards, a german octopus, and a broken abacus submerged in enchanted olive oil to make a decision about where he ought to place his car, leading to much panic braking followed by swearing and dread the next time he came about.

3) A Mustang that gets caught in a bad place, thus leading to a Corvette sitting behind mid-corner, but instead of holding his line thinks 'OH GOD I'M GOING TO DIE' before binning it pathetically

4) Mustangs that after several hours of driving are incapable of being driven competently enough to not oversteer on exit with a Corvette on the inside.

So, let's highlight the issues here in each case:

1) Lack of foresight to acknowledge that a car will catch you at a certain point of the track - or a disbelief that two cars can go side by side through a corner despite the fact that other people seem to manage it fine.

2) Not being able to make a decision, or read the obvious 'HELLO I AM ON THIS SIDE OF THE TRACK AND MAKING MY INTENTION CLEAR' car-placement language that the Corvettes were doing.

3) Being scared of everything that moves and a non-acknowledgement of the fact that if a Corvette catches you in a bad place, then the best thing to do is just to hold your line rather than pani... OH GOD THERE IS A CAR HANDBRAKE TURN!!

4) I can't put anything here that isn't offensive.


Mustang drivers, please understand this point: It's not aggression that causes us to be (wrongly) perceived to be rather short with you and unwilling to acknowledge that you're in your own race as well - it's the fact that we have NO time whatsoever to play with. When you see us coming, be it on the track or on the relative screen, you have a comparatively huge amount of time to plan your approach and be ready for it. If we're tucked up behind another Corvette especially, we do not have this luxury, and we have to make a decision instantly. We just do not have the time to process any late information. That's why it's critical to make yourself readable - and that doesn't necessarily mean any compromise on your own race.

If we catch you in a bad place, then that's fine - it's not a problem as long as we're all in control of the situation. The problem arises when Mustang drivers think "actually, I'll go *here*" because we have no chance of reacting to that quickly enough.

I should make clear that these were a handful of isolated incidents, overwhelmingly the traffic was great, but Adam and Simon (and outside of this race, Michael Hornbuckle springs to mind as well) seem to manage it perfectly every time. Why can't everyone? What's happened since Watkins, when there were no major problems?

To Jamie:

From my experience after driving the iRacing’s Grand Am –series with both Mustang and DP and collecting almost 1700 laps of multiclass endurance racing (plus all the practice and qualifying sessions, atleast another 500 or so) I really can tell that the faster car is A. much easier to drive and to be positioned at multiclass let alone at overtaking situations and B. is responsible of making a safe pass, even while that would mean being stuck behind Mustang trough whole bus stop.

Main problem with DP / Vette + Mustangs is the huge difference in speed. Faster car just appears at your F3, the blueflag signal comes IMO way too late in this sim. Many times you’re fighting for lead or even win against one or 2 fellow Mustang drivers and then theres come this train of DP’s (or Vettes). Its hard, really hard to just yeld over as Vettes would like us to do. Not to mention the fact that Mustang is atleast 10 times more wobbly, more unstable and especially much more slowly to respond to any steering inputs than a Vette.

Should I just slow down and yeld for em at turn entry, – no way. I wont do that because I have as much right to place my car the fastest, most optimal racing line trough corner X as have Vettes. As they’re the guys to overtake us, they’ll wait their turn for it. Or, as in this sim, just divebomb hell out of the Mustang and cause all these mayhems, simply because of lack of respect other class racing and / or lack of patience.

 

[Mike Wrightson]

Not a great one for me, I wasn't getting it together with the car in practice and only qualified 7th.  I had a lap going that was nearly 1 second up on that time, but I got a 1x in the bus stop and that ruined it.

The start went OK, but after a few laps, Jamie was starting to hold up a train.  It all went wrong when we lapped the Mustangs for the first time, I ended up on the outside of T1, and took a big hit to the left front.  The car seemed OK at first then it spun violently as soon as I turned right.  Fished it out of the grass to see if it would be OK, but no, it spun again at the next right and I took my tow.

I hadn't gone nearly far enough to make this a scheduled stop, so I would need 2 more stops   Pressed on as quickly as I could with nobody to race for the rest of the 2 hours.  I had one more spin that wedged me into a wall at T1.  Luckilly I pulled the car out and could carry on, but the front was trashed and the car was now 2 seconds a lap slower.  Shame that, I might have challenged Dmitry for 6th if I hadn't done that.

See you all next time

[Adam Parle]

It was a pretty frustrating night for me in the end.

I set a PB in qually - the changes in the new build definately helped, I set a new PB on the third lap of practice after the build went live - and starting infront of Bernie was a fair indication of me having hooked one up.

I didn't have the best of starts, and didn't put up a fight when Bernie came alongside.  I was always going to be quicker chasing him than trying to hold him off.  After that, I was just trying to hang on to Bernie and Dave as they built a small gap, whilst I was building a gap behind me in the process.

I avoided contact with the Vettes, which got me past a stricken Bernie, and after Dave got a "bit" of a tankslapper I got past him too.  Things were looking pretty good at this point - and the gap to Dave was up to about 10 seconds before Dave pitted.  I duly pitted the next time round, took tyres and fuel and headed back out after a very solid stop.  However, just as headed past the parked pace car the dreaded red bar of doom appeared ... and a disco soon followed.

After the router reestablished a connection to the rest of the world, and rejoining the race, I sat watching all the folk that had been behind me lap me ... a little frustrating.

I came out just behind Dave, but being a lap down I didn't think unlapping myself was really an option for a while - but in the end I did pass Dave, only to lose the back end on the grass in the infield later that lap.

Frustration led me to quit at this point .... having had such a solid first half of the race, to have the race ruined by a connection issue was gutting.

All being well my connection will behave itself at Road Atlanta on the 13th.

[Burtoner]

just curious i know in the official iracing pts etc, its per class, but if you come 5th in your class dont you get same pts as 5th in different class?

Or is our system not working like that?

I finished 17th out of 31st and get 0 pts?

[Adam Parle]

just curious i know in the official iracing pts etc, its per class, but if you come 5th in your class dont you get same pts as 5th in different class?

Or is our system not working like that?

I finished 17th out of 31st and get 0 pts?

You got 44 points from this race?


... you were driving a Mustang this time ... so no points for you in the Corvette

[Simon Gymer]

Looking at my scoring record for this series (83, 67, 36, 16) it looks like I'd be better off not turning up for the next round otherwise I might score negative points.

[Burtoner]

ah right Mustang is classed as GT3?

So whats GT2?

[Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer]

So whats GT2?

A class for which there are no cars in iRacing at present.

[GizMoTo]

So whats GT2?

A class for which there are no cars in iRacing at present.

my car became a GT 0.5 on lap 52  ask Paul Richards the other .5 was all over the windscreen of his car at the chicane watching the replay it just looked like I dumped a shed load of oil on the track and we both went waltzing on it

I may have not finished but it was still fun and it did put a different spin on a DNF other than a plain old crash 

thinking of which it's good job we don't actually dump oil/water all over the place cos it would have got very messy for the rest of the race at the chicane 

[James Yates]

Main problem with DP / Vette + Mustangs is the huge difference in speed. Faster car just appears at your F3, the blueflag signal comes IMO way too late in this sim. Many times you’re fighting for lead or even win against one or 2 fellow Mustang drivers and then theres come this train of DP’s (or Vettes). Its hard, really hard to just yeld over as Vettes would like us to do. Not to mention the fact that Mustang is atleast 10 times more wobbly, more unstable and especially much more slowly to respond to any steering inputs than a Vette.

Perhaps try scrolling through the F3 screen, and make sure you are looking in your mirrors often. You shouldn't be 100% relying on the blue flag coming up. If you're fighting for the lead, please remember that often the Corvette that's lapping you is fighting for position too, or even the lead. Just because your fighting for a class win doesn't mean you have right of way.

Jamie's point of cars holding their lines is backed up by your point that the Mustang doesn't respond quickly. If the car is wobbly and slow responding make sure you move onto the line you're going to hold early on so we know what you're going to do. What we don't want is a Mustang changing lines constantly.

Should I just slow down and yeld for em at turn entry, – no way. I wont do that because I have as much right to place my car the fastest, most optimal racing line trough corner X as have Vettes. As they’re the guys to overtake us, they’ll wait their turn for it. Or, as in this sim, just divebomb hell out of the Mustang and cause all these mayhems, simply because of lack of respect other class racing and / or lack of patience.

You shouldn't have to yield but if you can let a Corvette down the inside and back off a little it makes things a lot better for both of you. It stops either of you losing much time and means that the quicker car can do a safe pass. You only have the right to run on the optimal racing line if the track is clear too, if you go drive all over the track while a Corvette is trying to overtake you you're just going to cause an accident, especially if you try to run the optimal racing line once the Corvette is already alongside you because you've left the door open. Divebombing isn't a good idea though, although I didn't see many people doing it. The biggest issue is some Mustang drivers faff about and leave the door open for a bit, so the Corvette drives up the inside then they drive back onto the racing line and say "oh you've divebombed me". While they may have dived down the inside you had left them a nice gap to drive into, and when you're coming up to lap a single car that usually means you'll go for it.

The biggest issue I had with a few Mustangs was people who didn't hold a line. They would wallow about across the track so you never knew where to go, especially on the banking, which is the exact place where a Corvette will be doing >170mph. How there wasn't a huge crash in that race I'll never know, sometimes it looked like the Mustang drivers not only had their mirrors turned off, but their screens too. Being held up by someone who cant place a car on the track is annoying and makes people more likely to take risks to make the time back up leading to more incidents. Just place your car in a definitive manner, rather than looking like your trying to trick the Corvette into passing before closing the door. Also don't just drive a mile off the track either, nor yield in a place that would be dangerous for both cars - such as the bus stop at Daytona.

[JazzGreenway]

Just place your car in a definitive manner, rather than looking like your trying to trick the Corvette into passing before closing the door.

While I agree with everything you say James, this here is quite often a recipe for misunderstandings, and the way you describe it is a misconception because of the Mustang needing a late apex.
Mustangs often need a late apex to make the optimum turn especially with these hairpins at Daytona, so it may seem we leave the door open. But... because the Corvette closes in so quick, I don't think the Corvette has a 'right' to steal the racing line in these kind of situations if he's coming from relatively far back. It's not exactly a divebomb but it's close.
Quite a few times I've had a Corvette waiting behind me to make the turn, so I make the turn as I usually do, but then the Corvette changes it's mind since I apparently 'left the door open' because I'm racing my normal line. Now at that point I've already decided the Corvette isn't going to pass me, which leads to confusion

I hope that made sense, I think the racing overall is outstanding in this league but the situation above is the responsibility of the faster class, imo. And maybe you didn't mean this at all, in which case you can just ignore me