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  • S20A Kyalami: January 25, 2011
January 25, 2011, 09:45:42 PM +0000 - Kyalami (1961-67) - UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
kinghiro
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 2 +0.152
108.921mph
1 49:53.590
107.065mph
35 1:24.645
108.186mph
Dunlop  
FullMetalGasket
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 5 +0.765
108.132mph
2 +3.063
106.956mph
35 1:24.612
108.228mph
Dunlop  
G Jonsson
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 3 +0.496
108.477mph
3 +3.335
106.946mph
35 1:23.982
109.040mph
Goodyear  
fpolicardi
 Team7
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 4 +0.715
108.196mph
4 +17.840
106.431mph
35 1:25.131
107.568mph
Goodyear  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 8 +0.882
107.983mph
5 +28.281
106.063mph
35 1:24.970
107.772mph
Dunlop  
Clutch4
 Mountside Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 6 +0.803
108.084mph
6 +33.555
105.878mph
35 1:24.911
107.847mph
Goodyear  
Podkrecony_Ziutek
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 9 +0.946
107.902mph
7 +34.202
105.856mph
35 1:24.745
108.058mph
Dunlop  
Al Heller
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 10 +1.004
107.828mph
8 +42.408
105.570mph
35 1:25.149
107.546mph
Dunlop  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 13 +2.112
106.439mph
9 +1L
103.742mph
34 1:25.940
106.556mph
Dunlop  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Lotus 33 (Climax 1965) F1 1965 12 +2.023
106.550mph
10 +2L
100.157mph
33 1:27.126
105.105mph
Dunlop  
Turkey Machine
 HikiWazaRacing
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 7 +0.807
108.079mph
11 +27L
104.692mph
8 1:25.517
107.083mph
Disco
Dunlop  
Baab
 
BRM P261 (1965) F1 1965 11 +1.059
107.758mph
12 +0.184
104.664mph
8 1:25.384
107.250mph
Disco
Dunlop  
kinghiro
 Clark-Hill Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 13 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Brabham BT7 (Climax) F1 1965 1 1:23.922
109.118mph
14 ---
---
Dunlop  
2 UKGPL_T7
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 14 15 ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

Kyalami brought with it the first non-Brabham victory of Season 20 and also one of the most epic races in the history of the Ams!
After Tom's bribe to Hristo's ISP resulted in internet failure mid qualifying, the start was looking VERY interesting - with the first 10 drivers seperated by only a second, most of whom with laps that were within 2 tenths of one another.
The start saw a massive re-shuffle as the drivers with long 1st's plumeted down the order while the remainder rapidly jumped to the advantage.
35 laps of close battles then occured across the entire field, with positions changing nearly lap by lap and no fewer than 3 leaders, who while only officially changing places 3 times actually swapped spots 16 times in total!

Come the close of play and Tom managed a very well fought and well deserved maiden win in the Ams.
With Tim M a few seconds behind and and a Flying Goran in third.

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Jan 25  (Read 7082 times)
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kinghiro
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« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2011, 09:39:28 PM +0000 »

I m was so happy with my 1 st ams victory that I watched the replay for two hours. Smiley.Especially when it s so close racing from start to finish..it was intense but clean. FMG covered it all. I was a bit slow out worried that H was there but not visible and flagman caught me offguard but not much. Gøran flew past me most because of my high 1st (calibered for the hairpin). My BRM engine brought my passed gøran at lap 6 . Thx for a great race Gøran and Tim.
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« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2011, 09:47:46 PM +0000 »

Well done on the win Tom. FMG's race report was so good I am going to watch the replay myself soon Smiley

I was interested to read that you use first gear at the hairpin (I presume you mean Leeukop?). I don't use first anywhere at Kyalami which I suppose is a waste of a gear. Was your idea to sacrifice speed off the line by having shorter gaps between the gears once you were up and running?

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
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« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2011, 10:00:41 PM +0000 »

Depends very much on the car and circuit Gilles  Smiley
Closer ratios keeps you more in the powerband (which is especially usefull at high speeds), but you also have to keep in mind that more shifts = more time in neutral Wink
I normally gear the BT7 (and other 6 speed cars) using first almost exclusively as a 'drag racing' gear to get off the line, and the other 5 geared to suit the track. Even with the BT7's lack of power it can still work happily aslong as you get the ratios right for your chosen driving style  Smiley
The most obvious examples I can think of where I still use first would be circuits like Spa (The final bend would be done in first in the BT7/Coop) and Pebble beach - where I actually had 2 first gears, one for T1 (2nd on my shifter) and one for T2 (1st on my shifter as it's slower).
At pebble when leaving T2 I'd shift up as follows: 1-3-4-5-6 while powering up the next straight.
Exiting T1 I'd go: 2-3-4 before braking for T2 where I'd normally brake 4-3-1 or sometime straight from 4th to 1st.
It gets very confusing but I did a lot of practice to hammer home what gear I should use where!  Grin

For Kyalami I only used 2nd for the tight left hander after Sunset, sunset itself was done in 4th and all the other turns were either flat in whatever gear I'd reached or in 3rd.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 10:02:37 PM +0000 by FullMetalGasket » Logged
Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2011, 10:02:39 PM +0000 »

Well done on the win Tom. FMG's race report was so good I am going to watch the replay myself soon Smiley

I was interested to read that you use first gear at the hairpin (I presume you mean Leeukop?). I don't use first anywhere at Kyalami which I suppose is a waste of a gear. Was your idea to sacrifice speed off the line by having shorter gaps between the gears once you were up and running?

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

I would definitely use 1st for the hairpin in a 5speed gearbox car, otherwise you sacrifice too much torque with big ratio gaps from 3rd to 5th if you set 2nd gear so short. Well... unless we're talking about a torque beast like the 67 Brabham or the Chaparral from the GT mod.  Grin
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kinghiro
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« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2011, 11:50:45 PM +0000 »

Well done on the win Tom. FMG's race report was so good I am going to watch the replay myself soon Smiley

I was interested to read that you use first gear at the hairpin (I presume you mean Leeukop?). I don't use first anywhere at Kyalami which I suppose is a waste of a gear. Was your idea to sacrifice speed off the line by having shorter gaps between the gears once you were up and running?

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Usually I use to do as Tim say. 1 st as getaway gear then rest for the track. anyways on this track I found I had to compromise too much. I wouldn t like to have second shorter than it was the way I used it and I remembered I had a tendency to loose ground there last race. a high 1st there gave me a good turn in (not too good wich is dangerous) and a decent torque at exit. The fact that I had too shift twice at the short straight after was actually a trade off but putting it straight to 3 rd (H shifter) (wich I had to have that high to stretch it all the way to the hairpin and also not get a too big gap up to 4 th) became a too big gap. 4 th I had to have as it was to stretch it down towards the right turn before the hairpin. if I used  5th there I would either have to make it so short that the gap to 6 th would be too high or just loose time on that shift. I did not like to have to shift in the middle of the fast lefthander ( that would be t3)
lots off words as usual trade off trade off.
I can t give a straight yes to your question because the alternative would be to not use 1 st there at all, but lets just say it was easier to go fast there with a high 1 st so I was faster in average.But yes I did sacrifice the speed off the line. with a peerfect entry I think to keep it in second would be just as fast if not faster, but I tended to go wide or cut kerb too often. This race I didn t loose ground there . ..xpt when I tried to enter defending once with Tim behind me  Wink defending entry means bad exit so he passed me right after anyway hehe, but a defending entry in second would mean very low revs, or use a very low 1 st there would often result in twitchy entry, very careful with acc on exit and actually have to shift up a big gap to second before exit was done completely.
You can look a bit on how it worked if you take time to look at rpy. I even think I used to gain a bit on gøran in the hairpin but I might have to eat those words. At least I didn t loose anything.
Can also put in that I was a bit scared to put 2 nd shorter cause a possible aggressive turn in at t1 when shifting down, although others might have had full control there anyway. Its down to driving style and how I use the clutch and H shifter. I also liked to have 2 nd as it was for possible side by sides down to t2 and a somewhat close gap between 2 nd and third.And can t forget about the last twitchy segment and final turn either lol.
omg I guess I could have made my point using a 10 nth off all these words.H made a good point,he was talking about 5 gear boxes, but I think it also applies here.Tims point of more shifting mean more time in neutral is also good.I like to be able to not shift up just before a brakedown. tell me if you had patience to read my hole post.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 01:18:33 AM +0000 by kinghiro » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2011, 03:08:59 PM +0000 »

Although there is good logic in using 1st only to get off the line if the other 5 gears still give you a good spread.

But the alternative logic is that you only leave the grid once, but take the "1st gear" hairpin 30 or more times. So maybe, having the gear that feels right for the hairpin saves you more than what you lose off the grid??

Do you really lose 30 x more than you gain, by having a slightly higher 1st gear at the start. I guess it depends on whatever suits the individual.

For what its worth I ran a higher 1st gear and was slow off the grid, but it worked for me during the race when I could capitalise on Al's hesitation out of the hairpin and I was able to fire my Cooper down the inside and gain a place.
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« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2011, 03:17:56 PM +0000 »

The benefit of using less gears for the corners translates in less gear changes per lap, and that can actually gain you a noticeable amount of time at some tracks. It's too specific to each car/track combination to be able to give any general guidelines, but the more you keep it within the optimal torque range the better.
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« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2011, 06:59:03 PM +0000 »

consider too the undesireable effects of increased  "wheelspin" if using shorter gears . low speed torque seems to give faster acceleration out of slow corners rather than high rpm's and wheelspin   Roll Eyes

The ideal ratio will drop into the 90% torque/power curve , but how do we know where that is in GPL ?
Does anyone know if GPLRE models the correct power curves Huh
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« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2011, 08:51:13 PM +0000 »

The torque curves for the 67 cars are on this page:

http://alison.hine.net/gpl/grehelp/tables.htm
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« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2011, 09:30:24 PM +0000 »

of course it is entirely possible that my "high" 1st gear ratio is very close to Tim and Hristo's low "2nd ratio", and that I have just closed the gaps between all the ratios up to max revs in 6th?? But all such info is classified and would result in a hefty FIA fine if found in the hands of the Mclaren team  Wink
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« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2011, 09:39:42 PM +0000 »

You can ask Hristo as he's your teammate Wink
I'm not so sure the Black Night management would approve of my divulging sensitive data to a fiendish waza though!

My gears were similar to H's though, as I nabbed his setup and then tweeked most of it  Grin
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« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2011, 10:20:39 AM +0000 »

Thanks for all the advice chaps, seems like - as ever with this game - the answer is "it depends".

Definitely something to bear in mind on some tracks though, although probably not useful if you only have a 5-speed box to start with.
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2011, 04:40:14 PM +0000 »

Mod report published  Smiley
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