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  • S20GrP Monza: March 06, 2011
March 06, 2011, 10:43:59 PM +0000 - Monza (GP 1955-71) - UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) Works
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 3 +0.505
---
1 49:06.343
---
33 1:28.380
---
Firestone  
Al Heller
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 5 +0.590
---
2 +0.025
---
33 1:28.377
---
Firestone  
FullMetalGasket
 Black Night Racing
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1967) F1 1967 4 +0.563
---
3 +6.157
---
33 1:28.287
---
Goodyear  
kinghiro
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 6 +0.608
---
4 +17.807
---
33 1:28.532
---
Firestone  
jhalli
 
Honda RA300 F1 1967 8 +1.155
---
5 +48.366
---
33 1:29.009
---
Firestone  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 11 +1.580
---
6 +49.518
---
33 1:29.449
---
Firestone  
Samb
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 9 +1.520
---
7 +1L
---
32 1:29.614
---
Goodyear  
Baab
 
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 2 +0.331
---
8 +2L
---
31 1:28.392
---
Firestone  
Rick Nauman
 
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 10 +1.534
---
9 +11L
---
22 1:28.824
---
Firestone  
john roberts
 
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 7 +0.850
---
10 +15L
---
18 1:29.082
---
Firestone  
Pelle_B
 TEAM-GTLDK
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1967) F1 1967 1 1:27.573
---
11 +21L
---
12 1:28.023
---
Goodyear  
kinghiro
 Clark-Hill Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 12 DNS ---
---
Goodyear  
Gpg UKGPL
 
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 13 ---
---
Firestone  

Moderator's Report

Nice and simple as no reported incidents in this one.
So it only leaves me to congratulate Hristo on his ninth championship win in the 67's. Tommie did a great job and made him work for it.

March 07, 2011, 09:24:40 AM +0000 - Monza (GP 1955-71) - UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) Privateers
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Ronniepeterson
 
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 1 1:28.635
145.094mph
1 31:51.257
141.304mph
21 1:29.740
143.307mph
Firestone  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 4 +0.484
144.306mph
2 +0.560
141.263mph
21 1:29.809
143.197mph
Firestone  
maddog
 Antipasti Racing
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 5 +0.590
144.134mph
3 +16.783
140.074mph
21 1:30.002
142.890mph
Firestone  
Cookie
 
Eagle T1G (Weslake 1967) F1 1967 3 +0.122
144.894mph
4 +17.243
140.040mph
21 1:29.396
143.859mph
Goodyear  
Billy Nobrakes
 Black Night Racing
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 7 +1.613
142.500mph
5 +23.867
139.561mph
21 1:30.331
142.370mph
Firestone  
Michael Turner
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 6 +1.133
143.262mph
6 +38.930
138.483mph
21 1:30.459
142.168mph
Firestone  
happyal
 Clark-Hill Racing
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 9 +2.962
140.402mph
7 +1:21.215
135.544mph
21 1:31.412
140.686mph
Firestone  
Nigel Smith
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 10 +4.111
138.662mph
8 +1:26.455
135.189mph
21 1:31.937
139.883mph
Firestone  
BookieW
 HikiWazaRacing
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 11 +4.977
137.380mph
9 +1L
134.147mph
20 1:31.724
140.207mph
Firestone  
il_lupo_mannaro
 Black Night Racing
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 2 +0.010
145.077mph
10 +19.464
132.799mph
20 1:28.844
144.752mph
Firestone  
hannah
 
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 8 +2.933
140.446mph
11 +1:10.676
129.378mph
20 1:32.025
139.749mph
Firestone  
BadBlood
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 12 +5.073
137.239mph
12 +3L
125.688mph
18 1:34.300
136.377mph
Disco
Firestone  
s2173
 
BRM P115 F1 1967 13 +10.283
130.011mph
13 +4L
110.051mph
17 1:40.096
128.480mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Billy Nobrakes
 Black Night Racing
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 14 DNS ---
---
Firestone  
2 UKGPL_T7
 
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 14 15 ---
---
Firestone  

Moderator's Report

Everyone complied with the reset rules and only one item reported which was classed as a racing incident.
So congratulations to Bernie on his third 67's championship. Mention goes to Ronnie too who was hot on his heels finishing only three points behind.


Server replay time: 0h18m26s

Paul spins off at Parabolica, can't see any cars approaching and rejoins off the racing line. Skymole is approaching but takes the corner wide with resulting contact.
This can't be classed as a bad rejoin but neither can Skymole be deemed to be at fault.
Hence racing incident.

  • Racing incident

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) Privateers - Monza (GP 1955-71) - Mar 6  (Read 7464 times)
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vosblod
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« on: February 28, 2011, 09:30:56 PM +0000 »

And now, the end is here, and so we face the final curtain. Yes it's the grand finale of the grads at Monza. I haven't done the maths but it looks like the title decider in both the Privateers and Works so best of luck.

We are running two separate grids for Works and Privateers drivers this season. The Works will run on PRO Damage and Privateers will run on Intermediate Damage with the allowance of ONE shift-R reset. No Shift-Rs are allowed in practice unless authorized by the moderator. A Shift-R (fault or not) MUST be followed by a Stop & Go. A Shift-R for tyres/fuel is not allowed. Any driver taking more then ONE Shift-R OR failing to take a Stop & Go will be disqualified from the race result.

Race List = IGOR
Server(s);
Works = UKGPL_Gpg
IP address = 62.195.32.131
Privateers = UKGPL_T7_2
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = 06-03-2011
Time = 21:00 UK time
Track = Monza
Variant = 67F1
Damage Model = Works; PRO / Privateers; INT
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on clock to allow everyone to join.
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 33)
Password: see above

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page
The track can be downloaded from : original Papy track
Add-on’s available at : http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=2803

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:50 pm UK Time

Reserve drivers should not join the server(s) until there are only 30 minutes of qualifying left. Please restrict chat to pit messages. Moderating will be by reported incidents only, however the moderators reserve the right to review any incident with a particular emphasis on lap one. The aim is to review the race the following weekend so incident reports should be submitted within five days of the race (ie the following Friday). We're hopeful most incidents can be resolved amicably and recommend a days deep breath with a replay review before posting. A sorry in the forum won't be taken as an automatic admission of guilt by the moderators.
The Works will run on PRO Damage and Privateers will run on Intermediate Damage with the allowance of ONE shift-R reset. No Shift-Rs are allowed in practice unless authorized by the moderator. A Shift-R (fault or not) MUST be followed by a Stop & Go. A Shift-R for tyres/fuel is not allowed. Any driver taking more then ONE Shift-R OR failing to take a Stop & Go will be disqualified from the race result.

With the token system chassis strategy will be a factor. A driver must have sufficient tokens for the chassis he drives in the race.  Any driver who does not have sufficient tokens will be disqualified from the result and his tokens will be set to zero.

Chassis costs;
Lotus 20 / Eagle 17 / Ferrari 15 / Brabham 10 / Cooper 5 / Honda 3 / BRM 0

To see your current tokens hover your mouse over your total points on the championship standings page. Ten tokens will be added when you cross the start line.

The Championship is split into two sub-divisions, namely Works and Privateers. The driver split will be;

WORKS drivers
Kinghiro (R)     
Evil Clive   
Hristo   
Tim FMG   
Steve Bird       
John Roberts 
Al Heller   
Vosblod   
Jethro   
Sam B   
Bartosz (Pod)   
Baab (R)   
Beefpie (R)   
Rick N (R)   
JHalli (R)   
Fulvio P (R)   
Tommie van O (R)   
EasternSun (R)   
Pelle_B (R)   
   
   

PRIVATEERS drivers
Bernie     
Burtoner   
Mike Turner   
Billy Nobrakes   
Bookie W     
Nigel Smith   
Fabio (Il Lupo)   
Ronnie Peterson       
Paul Badblood   
Martin Maddog (R)   
Ross Gilles27 (R)   
Hannah (R)   
Nicky I (R)   
Happy Al (R)   
  D-Rock (R) 
Toni Niemi (R)   
   
   

EasternSun (R) - sub-division to be decided upon

67 Patch: The 1.3 Release of the 67mod can be used.

NOTE: Please ensure you join the correct server, due to the way we import if you start the race on the wrong server your result will not count.

REPLAYS
Privateers server replays will be posted in the usual place after the event. Works will now be posted at http://grandprix.xs4all.nl/ . When downloading please check the timetable for other races and DO NOT download while another race is being run.

Built in Villa Reale park north of Monza and officially opened on 3 September 1922. The 1933 race was marked by the deaths of three drivers and the Grand Prix layout was changed, with two chicanes added and the longer straights removed. The first grand prix after WW2 was held on 17 October 1948. The high speed bank‌ing was added in 1954. 1961 had a fatal accident, with Wolfgang von Trips and fourteen spectators dying near the Parabolica. Despite the fact that the bankings were not involved in that accident, F1 never raced on the oval again (except in the film Grand Prix made in 1966). The 1000 km Monza staged the last event on the banking in 1969. Various 'safety' measures were introduced in subsequent years with additional chicanes and run off areas.
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BadBlood
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2011, 09:55:05 AM +0000 »

This is one of my favourite circuits - it was the first track I drove and the one I learnt on. Having been the moving chicane all season I am hoping for a better race here and possibly seeing some other drivers! I have improved my lap times in the Honda markedly and have tweaked the setup and gearing which has shaved 3 seconds off my PB. I was feeling quite proud of myself until I looked at previous seasons results!

One thing I cannot explain is that my tyres just do not heat up - is that because I am being too cautious? Best of 1:33.5 is going to put me last again but never mind, that is a massive personal improvement and I have lapped consistently between 1:34-5 which is also a massive improvement. Looking forward to it.
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2011, 09:57:42 AM +0000 »

Yes, you need to drive close to the limit of grip to heat up the tires and you need to do that at each corner, otherwise they cool off. I wish I had your problem, mine is dealing with overheating which is quite bad here, especially because of Curva Grande.
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2011, 10:27:40 AM +0000 »

You can afford to slow down! I am still at the stage of exploring where the grip goes off and trying to drive on that fine line. I am braking too early for Lesmo 1 and 2 and losing time as a result but every time I try to puish it a bit further up the road I end up in the armco. I am also probably losing time at T1 but I have improved my sector 1 times by about 1.5 seconds through practice.

In terms of gearing, I have tried something agressive and found that I was spinning so I think I have found a happy medium. I am doing about 186 before Parabolica and about 172 through Ascari with foot flat - that is fast enough isn't it?
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2011, 10:53:42 AM +0000 »

You seem to be making some good improvements Paul.  Keep at it.

Unless you are having to accelerate again to get to the corner after slowing down at the lesmo's I'd suggest you are not braking too late.  The biggest thing I am trying to work on at the moment is not late braking but less braking and trying to carry speed, while still getting a good line for the exit.  The most important thing for the lesmo's is to get a good exit from 2 so you can carry that speed along the next section effectively all the way to parabolica.

For T1 I drop to 4th and almost cruise in as far as the tree on the right then gradually feed in the power again.  There are probably better ways there but its too easy to run wide to the barrier there.

May be worth a read: http://wiki.grandprixlegends.info/index.php?title=LOR_Trackguide_Monza
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 10:58:09 AM +0000 by b_1_rd » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2011, 11:00:25 AM +0000 »

Steve is right, you'll be better off by easing off the brakes before the corner and just letting the car carry speed while you turn in.

What setup are you using, Paul? I hope you've ditched the default setup which has way too much understeering.
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2011, 11:13:36 AM +0000 »

Thanks both.


Aware of this but can't get anywhere near the sort of speeds they mention! It is useful though.

I am certainly not accelerating to get to Lesmo 1! Brake hard and turn in and then back on the power (usually too early and back off to make the turn) and then accelerate hard off the apex drifting left for Lesmo 2 - I know that is not ideal but it seems to be the only way I can make the corner cleanly and keep tight.

The setup is pretty bland but I have it set 40% front and 60% back  (80/120) something like that and reverse for the wheel rates (or is it the other way round? Can't remember but it is pretty stable). 55% Bias and Camber of -0.50 with a tweak for the front right (-0.60 I think). 22 PSI all round. 9:1 ratio.
Set the Diff to 85/30 with 3 clutches. Had 30/60 with 5 in the default I think and it was just snatching as I downshifted.

Seems ok. I can't drive your setups H they are just too twitchy!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 11:25:17 AM +0000 by BadBlood » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2011, 11:19:40 AM +0000 »

IMHO:

80/120 should be for the wheel rates.  Try even roll bars at about 150 and if is kicking the rear out lower the rear roll bar.

Set the tyres at 20 psi, you may find they get heat better, 22 seems a bit high, although I know some have them high for the apparent less roll resistance at fast tracks.  Can't say I notice that much difference.

Your diff is close to what I use, I bet H and Clive use something much different to that, but it should be a stable one.

You'll get about 300 different points of view now lol

This may be useful as a basic guide: http://www.intothered.dk/simracing/setups.html
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 11:21:58 AM +0000 by b_1_rd » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2011, 11:25:56 AM +0000 »

Paul,
if you are finding that you are having to get off the power at Lesmo 1, try to resist the urge to mash the throttle and actually squeeze it down in a controlled way whilst "feeling" the grip available until the corner opens up you are sure that you can give it 100%.

Backing off the gas mid corner is likely to unsettle the car and will scrub of any momentum that you might be carrying. Better to persuade the car with gentle throttle and steering inputs to maintain your speed and allow it to drift out towards the armco ( but of course not actually hit it!) as you accelerate towards Lesmo 2 where the same rules apply.
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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2011, 11:29:32 AM +0000 »

80/120 should be for the wheel rates.

Probably is laugh I can never remember which way round they are unless I am in the screen. I'll try it but that is partly my problem - I'll try anything!

Clive,

Thanks for that. Backing off usually puts my front on the kerb on the inside and that is VERY effective at slowing me down Wink but I thought wild and wooly was the WAZA way!
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2011, 12:41:38 PM +0000 »

Why do you have a higher negative camber on the right front wheel? It should be the other way around since you have only right corners. And also, if your car pushes wide when you step on the throttle inside the corner, then it has too much understeer. Ideally you want the car to drift, neither frontend pushing wide or rear stepping out.

I know my setups are twitchy, but they can be easily made more drivable. Change the differential to something like 60/45 or 85/45 with 1-2 clutches, make the rear ARB softer, add some more rear Toe-in and it's quite easy to drive yet responsive. I have a friend who has never driven GPL and I gave him to try a few laps, and with those changes to the setup he managed to do quite OK, as it helped him feel the car better.

As I told you before, you're far from the point where you should adjust setups to suit your driving style, because your driving style is far from developed. Don't fall into the trap of many who develop a style which only suits beginner setups and stop improving as they obtain habits which are difficult to change afterwards.
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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2011, 02:12:28 PM +0000 »

The tyre was heating excessively on one side - I couldnt work out why. The tweak didn't make much difference one way or the other so I think I will try Steve's suggestion of lower pressures, equalize the cambers and see how that goes. I only change the cambers to equalize tyre pressures - its not about time for me.

I'll take another look at your setup with some modifications to the diff. If nothing else, it would give me some better gearing. The main problem with your setups for me is the brake balance - when I set it back to 55% (which is what I am comfortable with) it doesn't seem to agree with the rest of the setup.

As far as habits go, I am still learning about how to point the car with brake and gas and although I don't drive 'on the edge' which means I am inherently slow, I am slowly beginning to understand what is possible.

Thanks, as always, for the assistance.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 02:18:27 PM +0000 by BadBlood » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2011, 07:40:22 PM +0000 »

I'm having similar issues re times have levelled off and can't seem to go much faster...still half a sec off my best.  BTW, that race lap record is rather pacey, can it be right?  What's your pb for Monza, H?  I see the world record is a 1:24:31.  Some of the older UKGPL records seem very fast, was GPL different back then or did we have a wealth of speed freaks.

Sounds like the race will be competitive, Pelle and Tommie in fezzas and H handicapped with the Honda (probably....no offence to the Honda).  Sounds like a few others will be pretty speedy here too.  I just hope to finish without incident and preferably in a good position.

Bob.
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2011, 08:08:16 PM +0000 »

The record here on UKGPL is wrong, it's not possible to do better than a flat 26 (in the Lotus) or maybe a high 25, though the best I've seen is 26.1 or something. And the WR being 24? That must be with 69s, lol.

My PB with the Honda is around 27.5-27.6, but I'm usually running into high 27s low 28s, and mid 28s during races.
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2011, 08:22:20 PM +0000 »

The tyre was heating excessively on one side - I couldnt work out why. The tweak didn't make much difference one way or the other so I think I will try Steve's suggestion of lower pressures, equalize the cambers and see how that goes. I only change the cambers to equalize tyre pressures - its not about time for me.

I'll take another look at your setup with some modifications to the diff. If nothing else, it would give me some better gearing. The main problem with your setups for me is the brake balance - when I set it back to 55% (which is what I am comfortable with) it doesn't seem to agree with the rest of the setup.

As far as habits go, I am still learning about how to point the car with brake and gas and although I don't drive 'on the edge' which means I am inherently slow, I am slowly beginning to understand what is possible.

Thanks, as always, for the assistance.

Paul, have you ever tried Greger Huttu's setups? Obviously Greger was an alien but he also made some very driveable setups to use for long races, which have a very mellow diff and stable rear end. His banzai-hotlap setups are called 'GH2' with the laptime he did with it, the easier ones are called 'GH', and the easiest ones are usually the 'GH_long_race' setups. I learned GPL in the Brabham BT24 at Zandvoort with Greger's setups. Here's a link:

GH2 setups:

http://www.teamredline.co.uk/file/setups/2/

GH1 setups:

http://www.teamredline.co.uk/file/setups/1/

Tommie.
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