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  • S21GrW Sandown: August 14, 2011
August 14, 2011, 10:10:47 PM +0100 - Sandown (1962-83) - UKGPL Season 21 (2011) Privateers (67)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Ronniepeterson
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P115 F1 1967 4 +0.496
101.950mph
1 52:18.077
98.428mph
44 1:09.314
101.276mph
Goodyear  
Rainier
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 1 1:08.360
102.690mph
2 +2.653
98.345mph
44 1:08.348
102.708mph
Goodyear  
maddog
 Antipasti Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 3 +0.319
102.213mph
3 +12.792
98.028mph
44 1:08.747
102.112mph
Goodyear  
b_1_rd
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P115 F1 1967 9 +3.702
97.414mph
4 +1L
95.088mph
43 1:09.762
100.626mph
Goodyear  
Michael Turner
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 7 +2.252
99.415mph
5 +2L
93.353mph
42 1:11.554
98.106mph
Firestone  
BadBlood
 HikiWazaRacing
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 11 +8.990
90.755mph
6 +5L
87.004mph
39 1:14.235
94.563mph
Disco
Firestone  
hannah
 
Honda RA300 F1 1967 10 +4.605
96.209mph
7 +6L
83.255mph
38 1:14.338
94.432mph
Disco
Firestone  
s2173
 
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 6 +1.369
100.674mph
8 (+5) +9L
90.440mph
35 1:10.816
99.128mph
Disco
Firestone  
miner2049er
 Clark-Hill Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 5 +0.774
101.540mph
9 +10L
95.711mph
34 1:09.401
101.150mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Ross Neilson
 Clark-Hill Racing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 2 +0.240
102.331mph
10 +24L
95.030mph
20 1:09.130
101.546mph
Disco
Firestone  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 8 +2.333
99.301mph
11 +43L
82.017mph
1 1:23.882
83.688mph
Disco
Firestone  
vosblod
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P115 F1 1967 13 12 +31.515
59.945mph
1 1:51.407
63.011mph
Disco
Goodyear  
2 UKGPL_T7
 
BRM P115 F1 1967 12 13 DNS ---
---
Goodyear  

Moderator's Report

A nice clean lap one and all drivers who reset took a Stop and Go.


Server replay time: 0h02m28s

Mike T clips a haybale, spins and ends up facing backwards on the grass. He then rejoins by doing a 360 across the track. Paul and Hannah are approaching and, Paul at least, can be clearly seen. Paul has to swerve to avoid him but does not go off. It does not look like Mike was attempting to rejoin straight onto the racing line so our rules have this;

"Inconsiderate Bad Rejoin: Penalty 1 Places
The rejoining driver was in full control but nevertheless drove straight back onto the track without leaving enough room for other cars. Contact was NOT made but other drivers had to take avoiding action."

However I am going to mitigate this down to a Warning purely because Mike does appear to make efforts to stay to the side and no major harm was done. He may well have decided there was enough room to rejoin without affecting the oncoming traffic but really should have waited for the cars to clear first.


Server replay time: 0h02m36s

After the above incident Paul and Hannah have passed Mike T when Paul clips a curb and spins. It all happens very quickly and Hannah does the correct thing and slows right down until the situation becomes clear. In the meantime Mike goes into the back of Hannah. Mike does not appear to slow very much and is travelling at much greater speed then Hannah at point of impact. He had time to see Paul going awry and should have slowed much more. According to the server replay the flagman is not waving yellows. This type of thing falls under the incident approach rules which have this;

"Avoidable Lack of Care: Typical Caution
The yellow flags were difficult to see. The approaching driver was unsighted because of circuit topography, other cars or bandwidth limitations (i.e. number of cars that are visible). The cars from the incident were resetting or driving unpredictably. The approaching driver slowed down but contact was made with the cars from the incident."

Whilst the yellow flags were not shown I feel a Caution is more appropriate then the next level down to reflect the fact that, notwithstanding flags, Mike could have been more cautious and slowed more then he did. It also reflects the fact that Hannah was not at fault here. Hannah, whilst not spinning, can be considered part of the incident as he had to slow.


Server replay time: 0h07m23s

At 6m54s Ross takes a solo spin finding himself facing backwards. He then drives backwards for a distance, possibly to put himself in the position of rejoining on a straight rather then a corner. Ross then goes to rejoin, but appears to struggle, and by 7m23s is spreadeagled across the track. In the meantime Hannah has come upon the incident and slows to get round Ross. Whilst doing this he is hit by Sky. There are really two aspects to look at here;

1) Is Ross to be penalised for the Rejoin? Well he actually does his best to rejoin safely although the whole process is somewhat convoluted and takes nearly 30 seconds. When he finds himself across the track and realises cars are approaching he does the right thing and waits to allow some predictability for cars trying to avoid him. The actual coming together between Hannah and Sky may be a consequence of the rejoin but is not caused by the rejoin. Accordingly I cannot find fault in what Ross did excepting, in those circumstances, perhaps a reset might have been a much simpler option. However that is easy to say with hindsight.

2) Hannah and Sky's coming together; approaching the corner the flagman is clearly waving yellows. Hannah does the right thing and slows right down to be on the safe side. He rounds the corner, see's Ross and moves right to go round him. At this point he is hit in the rear by Sky. Sky can see the yellow flag too and obviously slows to make the corner BUT when he rounds onto the straight, where he can clearly see a stricken Ross with Hannah approaching, he actually accelerates. It is not for me to put myself in Sky's mind but, perhaps, he decided there was a potential gap to make a place on Hannah. The reason is irrelevant as the fact is, despite warning flags and seeing a car lobstered across the track with another car clearly attempting to go round, instead of slowing he goes faster. That is much more serious then the incident at 2m36s. Our incident approach rules have this;

"Total Lack of Care: Penalty 3 Places
The yellow flags were clearly visible. The cars and debris from the incident were clearly visible. The cars from the incident were either stationary or moving very slowly. The approaching driver made no attempt to slow down and contact was made with the cars from the incident."
The 'incident' in this case is Ross spreadeagled and stationary across the track. Again Hannah, whilst not spinning, can be considered part of the incident as he had to slow.

The next penalty down, Blatant, would only apply if Ross had been moving. The speeding up towards an incident really means only the most severe penalty can apply.

Special mention must also go to Dave Rainier, the first driver to come across Ross having a wobbly, who did a textbook manouvre to safely avoid him. A great lesson in evasive driving.

August 14, 2011, 10:57:10 PM +0100 - Sandown (1962-83) - UKGPL Season 21 (2011) Works (67)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 1 1:05.358
107.417mph
1 48:53.580
105.300mph
44 1:05.618
106.992mph
Firestone  
Beefpie
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 2 +0.118
107.224mph
2 +2.620
105.206mph
44 1:05.824
106.657mph
Goodyear  
Baab
 
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 3 +0.900
105.958mph
3 +1L
103.552mph
43 1:06.426
105.690mph
Firestone  
Samb
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 5 +2.117
104.047mph
4 +51.589
101.752mph
43 1:07.705
103.694mph
Goodyear  
fpolicardi
 Team7
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 7 +3.876
101.404mph
5 +3L
95.888mph
41 1:09.169
101.499mph
Goodyear  
Arf Arf Arf
 
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 4 +1.823
104.503mph
6 +37L
99.802mph
7 1:08.474
102.529mph
Disco
Firestone  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 6 +2.448
103.539mph
7 +38L
99.423mph
6 1:08.216
102.917mph
Disco
Firestone  
john roberts
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 8 +8.169
95.483mph
8 +42L
90.280mph
2 1:13.241
95.856mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Gpg UKGPL
 
BRM P115 F1 1967 9 9 DNS ---
---
Goodyear  

Moderator's Report

A moderators dream; nice and clean lap one and no reported incidents. Keep these coming...

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
Grand Prix Legends
F1 1967
1:05.358
107.407mph
Hristo Itchov
Qualifying
Honda RA300August 14, 2011, 10:57:10 PM +0100
S21GrW
Grand Prix Legends
F1 1967
1:05.618
106.981mph
Hristo Itchov
Race
Honda RA300August 14, 2011, 10:57:10 PM +0100
S21GrW
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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 21 (2011) Works (67) - Sandown 68 - Aug 14  (Read 10632 times)
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2011, 02:44:13 AM +0100 »

I think people experiencing screen freeze counts as proof, but no, I don't have any yet personally and I hope I still won't after tomorrow's race, lol.
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vosblod
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« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2011, 10:25:02 AM +0100 »

The only reference I found to a problem re Sandown 68 was one event at GPL Racer which was a while back so hopefully that was a one off, as Martin says that was probably before the V2 rasterizers.

I'm afraid we can't re-run the whole race just because a single driver has a screen freeze. That is prone to happen anywhere and might not be a track problem, how many races do we get where no one has a single problem. When it's a track issue it tends to take out a lot of drivers around the same time and that is what we are looking at.

As for proof, I'm not really sure, but if you have someone running comfortably in a good position (relative to his usual position in races) and suddenly disappears, and later says it was a freeze, why would he lie? There's no gain from that, lol.
With all due respect, and not accusing anyone here of being underhand, but a driver who goes out in a comfortable position and can then claim a freeze to get a re-run would, of course, get another shot at the race regardless of the underlying reasons for their disappearance.
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« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2011, 10:52:42 AM +0100 »

Besides the point, but this track is very narrow with lots of kerbs and quite a short lap, which should guarantee that some runners will be lapped and it being relatively difficult to do so.  I am not looking forward to racing on it and would put money on there being some appreciable stacks.  Probably more for small cars/karts than 400bhp monsters.  Of course this is just my opinion...possibly Arf's too.

When the tracks are chosen is track width a factor?

Of course this is very 11th hour and this is not a request to change (I drove the circuit only recently).  Have to see how the race pans out.

Bob.
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Ronniepeterson
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« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2011, 11:31:17 AM +0100 »

Hooray for a practice server, thanks!!!!!
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2011, 12:20:23 PM +0100 »

The only reference I found to a problem re Sandown 68 was one event at GPL Racer which was a while back so hopefully that was a one off, as Martin says that was probably before the V2 rasterizers.

I'm afraid we can't re-run the whole race just because a single driver has a screen freeze. That is prone to happen anywhere and might not be a track problem, how many races do we get where no one has a single problem. When it's a track issue it tends to take out a lot of drivers around the same time and that is what we are looking at.

As for proof, I'm not really sure, but if you have someone running comfortably in a good position (relative to his usual position in races) and suddenly disappears, and later says it was a freeze, why would he lie? There's no gain from that, lol.
With all due respect, and not accusing anyone here of being underhand, but a driver who goes out in a comfortable position and can then claim a freeze to get a re-run would, of course, get another shot at the race regardless of the underlying reasons for their disappearance.

In my mind screen freezes have always something to do with the track. Even if there are other factors, if the track itself is not prone to screen freeze (i.e. Papy tracks), it won't happen.
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BadBlood
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« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2011, 02:04:25 PM +0100 »

What sadistic swine picked this track? I don't think I'll bother - which is a pity. No way I could stay out of the way and not block people off and ruin their races.

Wasn't expecting to be around anyway so nothing lost I guess.

Can't say I am impressed with the Aussie tracks though... Sad
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« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2011, 03:05:54 PM +0100 »

I don't think lapping will be a problem as long as the lappers are patient and wait until they are on the straights before passing.
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« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2011, 03:10:21 PM +0100 »

What if they are only faster in the corners!!! :'(
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« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2011, 03:45:29 PM +0100 »

Probably more for small cars/karts than 400bhp monsters.  Of course this is just my opinion...possibly Arf's too.

Ha ha, you know it is!! I certainly agree that this seems to be an odd choice for the 67s. Just did some lapping in a 65 Ferrari to persuade myself that this is a nice course, and it works with lower powered engines...in fact it was quite a lot of fun. I shall now join the 67 practice server and see how much fun that is.

Due to the traffic chaos in west and south west London today (which has persuaded me to leave London for the actual Olypmics, this was just practice travel chaos....oh and some blokes on fast bicycles Grin), I shall be in tonight, so I might as well give it a go, but had planned to avoid this race. I don't think I'm giving anything away by declaring that my strategy for the race will be the same as got me 2nd at Lakeside - slow and no risks, only passing the carcasses of those on more aggressive approaches! Those lapping me please have patience - you can put yourself out the race moving slightly off line (ask Paul if you don't believe me  Cheesy)!

Arf^3
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 03:48:18 PM +0100 by Arf Arf Arf » Logged
maddog
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« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2011, 04:00:03 PM +0100 »

What if they are only faster in the corners!!! :'(

It's quite simple - when you undertake an overtake, avoid being overtaken by the usual tendancies.  This track requires give and take, to avoid risking a change of unders, or being taken to the cleaners, lest you're taken over with a need, to be undertaken, by the Undertakers ! Shocked 
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2011, 04:12:48 PM +0100 »

I don't think lapping will be a problem as long as the lappers are patient and wait until they are on the straights before passing.

As long as backmarkers cooperate.  Wink

What if they are only faster in the corners!!! :'(

It's quite simple - when you undertake an overtake, avoid being overtaken by the usual tendancies.  This track requires give and take, to avoid risking a change of unders, or being taken to the cleaners, lest you're taken over with a need, to be undertaken, by the Undertakers ! Shocked 

Well said!  Cheesy
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 04:16:20 PM +0100 by Hristo Itchov » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2011, 06:01:37 PM +0100 »

Thanks for those pearls of wisdom Martin and Hristo. laugh
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« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2011, 06:14:58 PM +0100 »

Well - Ronnie has dragged me around to a 1:16 so maybe I will play. Still think its horrible though.
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« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2011, 06:54:52 PM +0100 »

Well, that track is great...from the kind i enjoy...lapping at...now racing is another thing. Monaco setups work great here, with a few clics higher fifth gear, if that would be of any help.
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« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2011, 07:37:07 PM +0100 »

Nope  Grin
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