UKAC TCR Series - Vallelunga - Rounds 3&4 - Oct 3

[Simon Gymer]

Now I know you’ve all been cheating by being good at setups  I don’t feel so bad about being so slow. 

[phspok]

Strongly opposed to fixed setups. These things are not fun with the default setup.

[Mark J]

why would we want fixed setups?  unless the real series uses them then no wish or need to enforce them here.

We all want the car to handle to our own driving traits, whether you like the car very pointy or with a bit of safe understeer.

Ive always asked in the past for a seasoned racer to upload a decent setup to bring the racing closer but nobody ever does, unless you happen to be on the practise server same time as one of our quicker guys and they are generally helpful with letting you try theirs via stracker. 

I just went online before this race and looked up FWD race car handling. Generally a stiff rear end and rear toe-out were recommended. The front i'm not sure about because it doesnt want to turn in but if you soften the front it just gets so sloppy through the corners. It does appear to have high damper settings at 15 front bump!

[FullMetalGasket]

I can't see the point in driving race cars with a fixed setup - they're too reactive to the setup they have and therefore must be set to suit their driver.
I've shared and swapped setups in loads of games with both faster and slower drivers - even people who are on my pace 90% of the time run massively different setups to acheive the same times.
A fixed setup can only equalise the field in bog-standard road cars, preferably ones that are pretty old and basic at that.

[Jeffrey]

why would we want fixed setups?  unless the real series uses them then no wish or need to enforce them here.

We all want the car to handle to our own driving traits, whether you like the car very pointy or with a bit of safe understeer.

Ive always asked in the past for a seasoned racer to upload a decent setup to bring the racing closer but nobody ever does, unless you happen to be on the practise server same time as one of our quicker guys and they are generally helpful with letting you try theirs via stracker. 

I just went online before this race and looked up FWD race car handling. Generally a stiff rear end and rear toe-out were recommended. The front i'm not sure about because it doesnt want to turn in but if you soften the front it just gets so sloppy through the corners. It does appear to have high damper settings at 15 front bump!

It's pretty hard to share setup with these cars, as they are all "different", so I don't think you will see my setup on stracker, as it's for another car. I can upload it on dropbox and then you can copy it to the Alfa, but my setup is pretty extreme in some settings and I don't know if that was the right way to go, it just made the car feel more fun for me.

[Baikal]

  Ok ok )) It was just a calm question from me, guys  
I am not so persistent with  opinion of fixed set using. But many of leagues in using it in such series and more satisfied. Because of more close racing and no need a big amount of time for traning. It's fully responding to my own "wants" of this car- simple to drive with lot of fun. For me i love near the default set in this car .  The car is moving naturally to IRL FWD in default set. And i dont sure , i will be satisfied with extremal settings or not. I think, not, because the car will move more and more unnaturally here, imo.
So, let's continue things as is 
  

[Fabri Fibra]

The car is moving naturally to IRL FWD in default set. And i dont sure , i will be satisfied with extremal settings or not.

With "IRL FWD" are you talking about regular FWD, road cars? If yes, i disagree. Road FWD cars, specially of '80-'90, suffer much weight transfers and in entering the rear can be dangerous.
Instead the TCR mod cars are very stable and the rear is very friendly (even with extreme setups). I think the IRL TCRs are like that, because the aerodynamics and slick tires of considerable size. But I'm not a big expert in these categories.

In general, I don't play for close battles ("simple to drive with lot of fun"), I usually prefer cars that require some effort to drive; my fun is this.

[Baikal]

With "IRL FWD" are you talking about regular FWD, road cars? If yes, i disagree. Road FWD cars, specially of '80-'90, suffer much weight transfers and in entering the rear can be dangerous.

There are a lot of diffirencies in FWD cars. I've used some of them irl. And VAZ 21093 looks very similar to this Leon in overal, including good rear stability in braking. Allow same sportish style of driving. Same sense of understeer in speed up. Every time i drive Leon model in default set i remembering VAZ 21093 ( naturally before speed 130  ) Another FWD car was Toyota Camry 94. It's an absolutely different thing. More power, more comfort, but rear end was not so stabil in casual braking and it was not so sportish car.   

[Sutol]

To stop the usual early first lap/corner pile ups, could the percentage damage be turned up. This would make drivers more careful and let's face it closer to reality.

[Jeffrey]

To stop the usual early first lap/corner pile ups, could the percentage damage be turned up. This would make drivers more careful and let's face it closer to reality.

I think it will just increase the amount of people quitting after lap 1 incidents. The incidents here were mostly not caused by stupidity or being overambitious but small mistakes resulting in a large incident. Increasing the damage won't make people less prone to mistakes but will punish the victims even harder.

I think harsher penalties or always reviewing the first lap for incidents is a better way to "scare" off perpetrators.

[FullMetalGasket]

I'd have to agree with Jeffery, I would have been out on Lap 1 with realistic damage, just for slowing enough to avoid the pile up in front and being hit frome behind by several cars.
From watching the replay the guys behind who hit me were 95% not to blame, moderating would recognise that - the damage model wouldn't care

[Sutol]

If the damage was increased to the point where heavy contact resulted in reduced drivability, then I think it would be worth a try. Afterall, as they say the race isn't won in the first corner.

I'm often at the back of the grid, and even if I make it through the lap 1 carnage I am still at risk at being tagged by the drivers that we're involved being keen to get back in the race.

I appreciate what you say  but think it would be worth a try. Any solution will be a compromise but at least the experience will be moving towards reality.

[phspok]

Anything that reduces people taking foolish risks is good, particularly lap1.
Having run several series over many years with different sims, my opinion FWIW
is that place drop from penalties is more effective than damage. Though we have had
a couple of people over the years who's egos were dented by a penalty and they left the series
but this is rare.

Either may have some effect, but as FMG pointed out damage will ruin your race
when you have done nothing wrong, whereas if you got 2 places dropped last race
through being over enthusiastic into T1, you are more likely to be a bit more
cautious. When you are supremely confident in your own abiltiy, damage is not
something that is at the front of your mind.
When the flag drops people go nuts, can't be stopped, but a little
consideration will go a long way.

[Mark J]

must admit I also considered raising the damage levels to make people drive a bit more carefully. Have seen too many trying to drive through people without consequence so it might make more drivers circumspect. The flip side, as mentioned, is that you can quite easily be a victim with higher damage. I would probably have had to retire from both races with severe damage thanks to the T4 carnage through no fault of my own. 

Tricky call ! Maybe nudge it up to 75% or 80% 

To be fair, after 3 of us reviewed the replays, what seemed during the race as daft driving on lap1 was generally more a case of smaller errors culminating in bigger incidents. A nudge under braking pushing a car into another car etc. We just all need to be more careful on cold tyres/brakes and give a little more room.

[Fabri Fibra]

I would like to have 100% of the damage, but only for a matter of realism.
I come from 10 years of air sim (like PorcoRosso) and I have always played in servers "full real". When I started playing with AC, I was surprised that sim-racers prefer to play with less% of damage, although they like the word "sim".

That said, I agree with others. Increasing the % of damage would not reduce the contacts (which are few in this group). Most contacts are due to small mistakes and misunderstandings between pilots. I have never seen aggressive or irregular actions.