UKPnG Season 1 Clubmans - Mosport 1977 - Jun 30

[psuedo]

I quite agree with MJ. I would have been at the sharp end in the 350 at race pace but couldn't get within a second in the Stang.
Having said that, I know from experience that it is a next too impossible job catergorising cars due to differing driver abillity, and an even less thankful job trying to catergorise drivers too.   So absolutely no fault of Legzy's or WT's if things aren't always perfect.

IMO, with it being a clubmans championship, ie relying heavily on folk 'doing the right thing' and selecting appropriate cars, it could be best if the top two or three drivers post their average times for a track as early as possible b4 the race, in the car they are going to/most likely to use. This would then give the rest of us a chance to find out what car (if any) we can get to within striking distance of those times and possibly make for even closer races.

[pribeiro]

 
 
Was disapointed in qually to only be 18th on the grid with a mid '37 and see that the top 10 had all done 1:36's.   which is why the clubmans classing doesnt seem to be working for me so far. I seem to be forced into a car that puts me 1 to 2 secs behind half the grid in each race, whereas i thought the idea was to equalise the performance spread    I felt happy in the shelby GT350 as i could at least do regular 37's in it, but then because the odd alien reported fast times in it, it was moved into the next grouping leaving me in cars that i could do the odd '37 in with a clear track and no distraction, but mainly 38's, especially in the race proper.
I think we are being a bit punitive in car groupings for the group C&D drivers. A car should only be moved into a higher group if the drivers in that lower group 'are' putting in perceived faster laps in it, rather than a driver from that higher group saying this car can do a xx. time.
Maybe the groupings should be reviewed right upto race day as it appears that alot of drivers suddenly pop in laptimes way quicker in some supposed slower cars, leaving others stuck in cars with no hope of competing at the front end, or that their talents (or lack of) allows them too. It might just be me not being very good in the US cars but interested to see what others think, as there is no denying the laptimes gap.

Agree.
It is happening to me also Mark. Always qualifying 2nd half of the field.
So, or we are in a wrong group or we are slow drivers.  
Anyway, this is the first season on P&G and the intention is to obtain experience to the next one.
Mr. Legzy is doing an astonishing job.  

[Truetom]

So, or we are in a wrong group or we are slow drivers.  

Heh, this might be the "what was first, an egg or a chicken?" question. I also qualified 17th, then went upwards. Would be nice to quali a bit higher, though I'm not sure how to solve this problem - if it is a problem at all. 

[Mark J]

IMO, with it being a clubmans championship, ie relying heavily on folk 'doing the right thing' and selecting appropriate cars, it could be best if the top two or three drivers post their average times for a track as early as possible b4 the race, in the car they are going to/most likely to use. This would then give the rest of us a chance to find out what car (if any) we can get to within striking distance of those times and possibly make for even closer races.

Yes, thats my thoughts too. I did mention this at the last race via Pm, that if its obvious a target time is un-attainable for drivers in a certain group bracketed into a certain car(s) then surely they should be able to try a car from the next group up that gives them the opportunity to at least compete with the top 10. We dont expect to be given a car to beat alien drivers in but we should at least have the opportunity to race against them/ give them a harder time.

None of this is meant as criticising Legz and Tony,  just asking for a little more flexibility to close the gap between top 10 and rest of field because last night proved the target time is being beaten by a second for the top 10 whilst more than half the field struggle to stay within that target time on a consistent basis. Maybe we need to post aggregate laptimes instead of PB's to set target times for the car groupings  

[Manteos]

Another great race guys! Started from 9th place after a crash during qualif (when i was 2nd...), i tried to make an unlucky comeback, even if i was faster than drivers in front of me... My usual unlucky began when i found a twisted car in front of me at the hairpin, and i was not able to avoid the crash, that caused a suspention damage to my car that i've brought back all the race... it happens...
After that I began to make a lot of mistakes and lose some position, until the 14th... I replaced the gap with the drivers in front of me and i had some great battle, that let me make a lot of overtakes and have a great fun with some of you! In the end i conquered a 10th position, not happy about the final result, but really amused in the duels!
Great result for the VDA team, that could be even better if Pippo's wife had not removed the plug of the modem during the start ... anyway great debut of Peppe in 3rd place, and GRATS to Gavino (aka ayrton4_94 aka flying Sardinian) for his first race won here! U.F.O Driver!!!
As ever Grats to Legzy for the great event organization! Cu at the next one!
 

[goldtop]

I love this series and I think Legzy is doing an exceptional job in creating the conditions for close and exciting racing throughout the field. Last night most of the quali times and best race laps were within 2 seconds of pole which is a great achievement considering the range of driver ability.

Some less than impressive driving by some IMO, particularly the individual stationary mid track during quali which ruined my best lap   My early exit was also the result of trying to dodge past a slow recovering driver after they had punted someone off track.

Also, is it really necessary for some to drive with headlights on in the daylight

[Ade]

Well that was a great race   i was still practicing in the Shelby GT350 SCCA on Monday night until Legzy mentioned on teamspeak that it had been moved up a class so gave the Mustang ATCC a go in a 3 lap race with a rushed setup but got a high 1:36 in it so it looked a bit too fast for me   so i went with the Jag (didn't fancy wrestling a Yank tank round in the heat anyway)
Was hitting 1:37s with it in race trim and could get one high 1:36 lap in Quali trim so it was good to go.
After everything had settled after the start and folk had done their falling off i had some fun with Oilseal   in his Cobra 289, we would be side by side at the end of the back straight then i could get a bit of a lead on the twisty bits then he was back on my case again on the straight (until he ran wide at T2)
Then the chase was on for Pepz (sorry for the tap at Moss corner) when you ran wide, good to see you held it together couldnt catch him though  

I see folk had some tyre wear problems,  i tried the Dunlop R5 D9 (hard i think) but with more side slip they would overheat and not cool down quick enough on the straights, with the Dunlop R5 D12 (soft i think) i had less side slip, less heat buildup so they cooled down quicker with less tyre wear.
Out of interest, what tyres did Lazlow run on the Jag ? i was on 11 on the front left when he said he was on 12 and i definitely wasn't being kind to the rubber (I think that's how it works)  

                           Great race all, thanks to legzy and Tony for another fine race

                                                               Next, Cheers Ade

[BillThomas]

All members welcome

Practice 1: 20:00 (20 mins) (Aim is to see if a longer praccy session effects the number of CTD's experienced)

Thanks, I got CTD rejoining for practice - AGAIN.  By the time I'd rebooted and got on line last time you were all in qualifying.  This time I got into practice and was able to settle down by the time qualifying started.

In the race I got knocked wide in the hairpin and lost a couple of places and had a few laps battle with an Alfa - Legzy I think.  Was steadily drawing away from him when I over cooked it all on my own and went off on the hairpin again.  We had a close battle then till I went off on the exit to T1 and wrecked my suspension.  Thanks for the race.

Bill

[pribeiro]

Also, is it really necessary for some to drive with headlights on in the daylight

Ofcourse it isn't.
I don't race with headlights on at GTREVO, GTL and RFACTOR. However, I turn on at P&G,
because it is lovely to see the all the well made dashboards with lights.
If any Admin state that it will be forbiden (which I don't believe), I will let them off.  :'(
This is my reason of having the lights on. 

Cheers

[Legzy]

Well I really enjoyed that! Which is somewhat odd because I span myself off 4 times & as a result spent a lot of the race on my own, right at the back but catching lap by lap the cars in front.

So two early spins in the first two laps put me dead last  . I then managed to pass a couple of people, mostly down to them going off/wide & then engaged in a good scrap with Bill. I felt I was about a second a lap quicker, but there was no way past. He defended well through the corners & had just enough extra speed that I couldn't quite stick with him down the straight. Repeated those laps about five/six times, only broken up the once when I caught a kerb lost a bit of momentum at the wrong time . But just as we started to engage again, Bill  had a moment & I slipped through & away. Think he retired soon after, so no defending on my part required sadly. Cheers Bill 

I then had to make up a fifteen second gap to the next car & did it with about 6 laps to go (would have been sooner if I'd not got over excited when he first came into view & I span myself again). Team mate Lazlow was struggling with tyres & went badly wide & onto the grass, so no fight there either. But Oily was just twenty yards up the road & we were immediately scrapping His American brute v my elegant Italian Alfa. Yup, all over him in the corners & just trying to stick with him on the straight. LOL, I loved it! 
Managed to sneak past with 1.5 laps to go & smugly told him on TS that "he needed to take me on this straight or you've no chance"... errr, he caught me & I blew my braking he was straight past but I still had a chance, till I tried too hard to force a move that meant I clipped the grass & spun. Gutted that the fight wasn't to the very finish, but really enjoyed it while it lasted. Cheers Oily 


Thanks to all that drove, sounds like you enjoyed it too. I do like that track. 

[Josè Arrogantio]

Thanks again to Legzy for all his good work  

good race...was a bumpy ride, (as is getting bumped... ) but I made it to the end I had some thrilling racing

I locked up and under-steered in to your car, totally my fault.  
I was going to stop and let you past at the next bend but ended up spinning in to retirement.
Glad to see you made it to the finnish!

I did get balked a couple of times, once it appeared that I was pushed onto the grass whilst overtaking down the straight and another time by a re-joiner hogging the racing line forcing me to slam on and attempt (failed) to go round the outside.

I didn’t realise you had an overlap when I moved over I thought you had just taped my rear.
I would of let you past had I known it was my fault, sorry.  

[PippoPelo]

hi all
my first race with P&G it has been very cool and very amusing infact i I have had an a good battle to distance with Ade  , very thx to Legzy for the realization of this champ .

Another great results of the team VDA especially to Ayrton. Manteos and Pippomox in the next race i want you in the first 6 position

ps: no problem Ade for the small push after all they are runs of cars

my tag name is "[VDA] Peppe" nope Pepz sorry for the problem

see u later in the next race
Pepz

[Paul968]

I enjoyed that more than I expected. I thought the tanks would be in their element with the long straight, but things seemed to balance out nicely. Ayrton was in another league in qual, but the race for the other slots near the front was pretty intense. 4th was a good place to start from, and not long after the start there were only 3 of us fighting it out  - Ayrton, myself and Samb in his falcon. He was warping around a bit, which made it rather scary at times, but he was hanging on grimly and it only a matter of time until he could stay close enough through the hairpin to get a run down the straight. After that he was chasing Ayrton, who made a mistake in the end and let Samb in front. I watched them duke it out for quite a few laps (great to watch guys!  ) until Ayrton got in front again, and then Samb's tyres started to wilt. He was all over the shop, and in the end he fell victim to the evil T2, leaving me to vainly chase after Ayrton. We were pretty well matched to the end, but I think he was just controlling the gap and had a little in reserve had I got close. Very Happy with 2nd, and really enjoyed driving the lovely 250 again. Ayrton proved that he is clearly a bit too fast for his own good, so I can see a Healey beckoning in the future for him

I completely disagree that the cars were not balanced. Within each group there is a spread of ability, a spread of car strength (they can't be exactly the same) and most importantly a spread of effort - some put in a lot of time and others do a lot less. Now, if you take the exceptional Ayrton out of the equation, we has 19 cars within 1.5 secs on the grid, all with a wide range of ability and cars. I'd say that was pretty successful! MJ - looking at your pace in the z06, you were only 0.1 secs quicker in qual than you posted on the forum a week before! At that stage I was struggling to get out of the 38s in the 250. Maybe you didn't practice as much as some of the others?

[Legzy]

I found driving that yank tank for an hour in that heat blinking hard work, ive even got a blister on my left hand !  

Yeah, really great effort by everyone to turn up in the heat! I've now been up into the loft to get a desk-fan for the next race!  

though the track felt very narrow during the early half of the race with other cars all around,

LOL, too much close racing for you?  

I was running 10th with about 3 laps to go when i ran wide on that final sweeping turn and lost 3 places to following convoy of cars

Martin said something similar to me, I'm dead chuffed with last night. Only one finisher was lapped & being able to get to the end of a race, falling off & three cars are straight past, suggests that the field was close. That's what I'm aiming for.

Was disappointed in qually to only be 18th on the grid with a mid '37 and see that the top 10 had all done 1:36's.   which is why the clubmans classing doesn't seem to be working for me so far. I seem to be forced into a car that puts me 1 to 2 secs behind half the grid in each race, whereas i thought the idea was to equalise the performance spread  

Some of the slower drivers in faster cars will be able to put together a few fast laps in the race, don't worry too much about where you are on the grid, just do the best you can. The key I'm sure you're aware to being a fast driver is hitting fast laps regularly. Blunder qualified in 19th but managed to drive constantly at a good pace & was up to 8th as he crossed the line. But you are correct that some of the fast drivers yesterday were able to set shockingly fast times in the slow cars (mostly through the amount of practice time they were putting in ). People (& cars) will be "rewarded" where required.

 I felt happy in the shelby GT350 as i could at least do regular 37's in it, but then because the odd alien reported fast times in it, it was moved into the next grouping leaving me in cars that i could do the odd '37 in with a clear track

Bearing in mind, what I just said... I'm happy with the changes I made, though I'm disappointed I was unable to make the changes for you all sooner.

 

I think we are being a bit punitive in car groupings for the group C&D drivers. A car should only be moved into a higher group if the drivers in that lower group 'are' putting in perceived faster laps in it, rather than a driver from that higher group saying this car can do a xx. time.
Maybe the groupings should be reviewed right upto race day as it appears that alot of drivers suddenly pop in laptimes way quicker in some supposed slower cars, leaving others stuck in cars with no hope of competing at the front end, or that their talents (or lack of) allows them too. It might just be me not being very good in the US cars but interested to see what others think, as there is no denying the laptimes gap.

I take on board what you're saying, but the leader board does not agree. The top eight are all drivers of the Group C&D cars. But it's early days & it's still far from perfect, that's for sure  

p.s. other people have also made good points/questions too, I've just run out of time at the mo.

[psuedo]

I didn’t realise you had an overlap when I moved over I thought you had just taped my rear.
I would of let you past had I known it was my fault, sorry

No probs mate, I didn't even know it was you (not looked at replay yet) but appology accepted....these things happen, I just like to point them out so folk are aware of them.