UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Inter League - Zandvoort (1967) - ADC - Mar 15

[MikeBeattie]

Yes Hristo,

As I pointed out in my post on the Championship post, I'm not available to UKGPL for this race, but happy to run in any of the other 66 mod events

For you information here is the ADC Team

Brabham BT 19...Maarten
Brabham BT 11...Kelly
Lotus 33 BRM.....Fletch
BRM P261...........Malcolm
Honda.................Jim
Ferrari.................Jeronen
McLaren...............Burt
Cooper................Mike
Eagle...................Tom

Reserves..............Robert & Craig

[Hristo Itchov]

Ah, ok, Mike, I forgot about that. And thanks Doni.

I have one worry though - why are we running some of the 3liter cars mixed with the 2liter? I sense trouble coming from that, especially at a track like zandy. From my recent experience the 2liter cars could brake MUCH later for T1 and carry more speed through the corners, especially the long ones, but at the same time the 3liter would rapidly close up on any 2liter on the straights. The start would be particularly dangerous.

[MikeBeattie]

Hristo

The ADC normally runs a "No passing untul after T1" rule.  If you want to use that, it's not a problem for us, so long as everybody understands and complies


Cheers

Mike

[Hristo Itchov]

Hristo

The ADC normally runs a "No passing untul after T1" rule.  If you want to use that, it's not a problem for us, so long as everybody understands and complies


Cheers

Mike

It's not that I have a problem with passing, but since people aim to drive their cars on the limit and that limits differs substantially between 2 and 3 liters, it leads to big differences in speed at various locations on the track. People would have to not only consciously ease off but also have knowledge of what those cars around them are capable of and that's difficult when you're surrounded by such mixed field. We'll see, I hope it wouldn't be as bad as I see it in my mind, but it's just what I've experienced in the past when we did it.

[Will Tway]

Jethro,

Any chance you wanna trade the p261 for the coop?

If not, no worries. I'll start working on a setup this week.

Cheers,

Will

[Turkey Machine]

I won't be able to tell you until Tuesday evening, so keep your fingers crossed. I cannot really push the Cooper hard though.

[Will Tway]

I'll stick with the Coop. Never tried it before so I look forward to something different.

Thanks anyway.

Will

[john roberts]

The ADC normally runs a "No passing untul after T1" rule.  If you want to use that, it's not a problem for us, so long as everybody understands and complies
Cheers

Mike

What a silly rule .. I for one won't be waiting till after turn one before I think about overtaking , but if it happens and UKGPL agree to the rule then I won't be racing .

john

[Turkey Machine]

The ADC normally runs a "No passing untul after T1" rule.  If you want to use that, it's not a problem for us, so long as everybody understands and complies
Cheers

Mike

What a silly rule .. I for one won't be waiting till after turn one before I think about overtaking , but if it happens and UKGPL agree to the rule then I won't be racing .

john

It's going to happen at T1 anyway because of the differential between engines and braking - the 3l cars will pull away at the start, but the 2l ones will claw it back under braking.

[miner2049er]

The trouble with a rule like that is when somebody gets bogged down off the line, everybody has to stay behind them?

The back of the grid won't see the bogged down car and the field just gets more compressed.

[Doni Yourth]

I'll happily stand in for John Roberts who, apparently, has never caused, let alone been involved, in a T1, L1 shunt.

Edit: Some time later...

The 'T1 Rule' of the ADC is designed to let everyone at least get away from the grid and make the first corner without fear of being run over by a hotshot who's gotten a rather better-than-average start or for some bloke who's got a poor one.  It's been in vogue for quite some time and was brought in as a result of far too many T1 shunts in the league.  I've run under it for years and have no problem with it.  That's not to say that there aren't any T1 fiascos.  There are but rather rare.  And this in a league that allows unlimited shift-R's.

Need I mention much more beyond Montreal 1982?

[Phil Thornton]

Just to clarify the "rules" for the inter league races, they are simply based on the 2008 GPL World Champs rules where the teams had to field a selection of chassis.  Because all the leagues run different rules the detail for each race is to be determined by the team captains.  So the "no passing until after T1" should only to be applied at the discretion of both captains.  The rule is obviously intended to reduce the possibility of Lap 1 T 1 pile ups but one would hope that the quality of the entry list should ensure this doesn't happen.  It is up to the team captains to decide if it is really necessary to apply this rule.

[john roberts]

I'll happily stand in for John Roberts who, apparently, has never caused, let alone been involved, in a T1, L1 shunt.

Do you have a problem with my driving or are you just being a smart arse ?

If you can tell me when I've caused a t1 l1 shunt in this league then I'll say sorry .

I said that I would not race if we were going to use that rule , not that I wasn't racing .

john

[Hristo Itchov]

I'll happily stand in for John Roberts who, apparently, has never caused, let alone been involved, in a T1, L1 shunt.

I fail to see your point, why are you saying this? What is it related to? I know John for years but I don't know you, so apart from sounding weird you're not getting anywhere with that.

If you're referring to the "no passing until T1 rule" I don't agree with it at all. We are meant to be racing, not parading. To me that rule looks like being created for people who can't keep their cars under control or can't race. The reason for problems arising from mixing 2 and 3 liter cars has nothing to do with overtaking after all, but I think enough has been said on the topic. I don't expect anyone to follow a no passing rule but rather do their best as to anticipate the differences in cars and know their own and other people's limitations as much as possible. Penalty rules will take care of the rest, hopefully. But I honestly hope we won't mix 2 and 3 liters ever again, I dare say it before the race and even if we get away with incidents that won't change my opinion, we shouldn't be waiting for things to happen before we react.

[Jack O'Ferrall]

Some leagues have T1 rules and we have discussed them for the Interleague races as recently as the GPFun race at Monza last season.  However for many drivers the start is an integral part of the enjoyment of the race.  An alternative is a red flag rule where a pro race is restarted after an accident that involves too many cars.  The UKGPL experience has been that the pro races have started well enough, except on occasions when there has been a disco at T1, which would only be covered by a red flag and restart.

Few if any leagues split 2l and 3l chassis and we raced a mixture of 2l and 3l chassis in the Interleagues last season without incident.  While there were problems with the mixture in the first UKGPL season with the 66s there were a number of contributory factors:

- lack of experience with the mod
- slower and less experienced drivers in the 3l cars
- intermediate level

Also, the system used by UKGPL had some drivers with the slowest 2l chassis while the Interleague system mixes only the faster 2l chassis, as chosen by the drivers, with the 3l cars.

Though Doni hasn't been with UKGPL long, he might be keen to race against his other league ADC.  If we're having a forthright exchange of opinions, Alonso might be a double champion, but you've a cat's chance of prising him out of Clubmans for this one when he finds they clash.  Also, if Jethro reckons the P83 is faster off the line than the P261, you'd best put him in the Ferrari and add Doni in the BRM.  And don't hit each other before the race starts.