UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Inter League - Zandvoort (1967) - ADC - Mar 15

[Turkey Machine]

I have no experience with the P83, but that would be my general opinion. I'll try both cars tomorrow and see what happens.

[Will Tway]

When in Rome.....
_________________________________________

- lack of experience with the mod
- slower and less experienced drivers in the 3l cars
- intermediate level

That pretty much sums me up.  :'(

Doni, you can take the Coop. I'll be a reserve.

GLA

[Napo]

If you're referring to the "no passing until T1 rule" I don't agree with it at all. We are meant to be racing, not parading. To me that rule looks like being created for people who can't keep their cars under control or can't race.

ditto

[Hristo Itchov]

Thanks, Dave. I didn't mean to be harsh to Doni, but I find it odd and out of place when he made that remark to jr.

As I said earlier, it is a provisional chassis allocation. For one I didn't think about bernie having a clubmans race, so bernie, let me know if you'd rather do that instead of interleague. As for Jethro, he was one of few who let me know what chassis they'd prefer for this one, so that's why I put him in that BRM. So let me know your opinions, people, if any.

[Doni Yourth]

Nonsense, Will.  Please do take the start if you can.  I'm adamant to remain as a stand-by, reserve driver ONLY if one or more of the nominated crew cannot take the start.  Thanks for the offer, tho.  Very kind of you.

I'm at some odds at going up my mates at the ADC.  Part of me wants to see them do well while the other part wants my new GPL mainline club emege victorious.  It's a Catch 22 situation.  If I do get a chance to drive, I'll do my best for the UKGPL. 

Hristo:  No offence taken.  I was merely emphasizing that the T1 rule does have its merits.  John Roberts thinks otherwise and has evidently taken issue with a simple, off-the-cuff statement.  Sorry, John.

And yes, I'm very wierd. 

[bernie]

Alonso might be a double champion, but you've a cat's chance of prising him out of Clubmans for this one when he finds they clash.  Also, if Jethro reckons the P83 is faster off the line than the P261, you'd best put him in the Ferrari and add Doni in the BRM.  And don't hit each other before the race starts. 

Looks like I dropped a boo boo !

To be honest there are that many UKGPL leagues , divisions and sub divisions these days that I find it difficult to keep track of whats what ,who'se doing what to who and where .

One of the thoughts I had was that S17 runs into the summer months , which means that if ever we do get a summer then the chances are I wont be around that much to race due to my summer activities which are still at the planning stage and are all very weather dependant

So with this in mind my thoughts were that I could have the occasional  pop at the Interleague stuff and thus duly signed on. But as you say,  I plum forgot  these races clash with the CC which I am FT in

Another thing I didnt spot is we are talking Pro rules And a minimum distance to qualify as a finisher,   they are very long races and I dont know if I would be capable of doing so many laps without the assistance of a pause button .

That said,  I dont fancy Albi either,  and we have to drop 2 races in CC so I would  be up for this race anyway but dependant on the following :-

1.  I can't find a comfy set up for the fezzer , tried the 312 but  found it very nervous at Zandy (using the one and only set up I have ) not tried the dino engined car yet but will give that one a go !

2. As I live in the loft when "on line"  the weather needs to be reasonably mild for me to sit behind the wheel for so long without running the risk of catching pnuemonia (ive tried a survival suit and moon boots but it sort of hampers things a bit )

After all that I'm still undecided which race I should do , very much open to suggestions but please keep them clean 


   

[Jack O'Ferrall]

How has the weirdness manifested itself in the past?   Why daub John a poor starter, when he isn't? 

The comic analogy applied isn't valid either, it's not about having split loyalties?  I like this, it seems very apt for 66-69 F1- 'Death resists us manfully, but we defeat it at the end.'

 

[Hristo Itchov]

Bernie, if nothing else I could provide you with a decent setup to start with, but you'd probably have to tweak it further to fit your own style. As for the rest, it's all up to you, but it'd be better if you make up your mind until tomorrow so we can finalize the chassis allocation and let our team have enough time to practice with their given car.

P.S. I probably have your e-mail from the breasts announcements so I'll send the setup to that.

[Napo]

Bernie, if nothing else I could provide you with a decent setup to start with, but you'd probably have to tweak it further to fit your own style. As for the rest, it's all up to you, but it'd be better if you make up your mind until tomorrow so we can finalize the chassis allocation and let our team have enough time to practice with their given car.

P.S. I probably have your e-mail from the breasts announcements so I'll send the setup to that.

Watch out Bernie...a decent setup from H will surely send you off roading over the hills.  

[bernie]

A decent gearbox would be a start , I can develop it from there , prob is have little or no experience of 66 chassis set up though I do love to drivin em 

[Turkey Machine]

3 questions.

1) Anybody got a setups bag I can drop into my profile, like what I've found for 65s and 67s?
2) Anybody got a setup for both the P83 and the P261? Am wrestling with both cars, and can't make my mind up. If I go significantly faster with one, I'll take that.
3) How the f**k do you drive this P83 effectively? I'm miles off the pace, 1:31 at the moment is my best, with a setup Geoff Heard kindly sent my way, and adjusted so it doesn't spin me at every corner. I can get that down to a 1:30 or maybe a high 1:29, but I cannot go as quick with this thing as I'd like. The P261 feels weird, I try and drive it like the 65 version, but it doesn't seem quick enough!

[Hristo Itchov]

3 questions.

1) Anybody got a setups bag I can drop into my profile, like what I've found for 65s and 67s?
2) Anybody got a setup for both the P83 and the P261? Am wrestling with both cars, and can't make my mind up. If I go significantly faster with one, I'll take that.
3) How the f**k do you drive this P83 effectively? I'm miles off the pace, 1:31 at the moment is my best, with a setup Geoff Heard kindly sent my way, and adjusted so it doesn't spin me at every corner. I can get that down to a 1:30 or maybe a high 1:29, but I cannot go as quick with this thing as I'd like. The P261 feels weird, I try and drive it like the 65 version, but it doesn't seem quick enough!

Haven't driven either of the BRMs, mostly been handicapped in the Lotus when we were doing 2 liters, but when you say it's that weird it reminds me of how the 67 BRM is, so perhaps you could try the trick that Michiel Pompert came up with for that - weird differential. Try one of those and see how it is - 85/45/5, 85/60/5, 85/60/6. Also if (probably so) it has a lot more weight on its rear, try a very soft front spring and stiff rear plus stiff rear bump/rebound (i.e. 4/4). Stiffer rear than front ARB also works in general for those pigs (i.e. I tend to run mostly 263 front 280 rear, metric units). Also I've noticed a minimum amount of rear toe tends to help alot in both 66 and 65, i.e. 0.06 to 0.2 (metric) and a bit of negative front (-0.1 to -0.3). Another trick would be raising the rear ride height somewhat to shift the weight distribution forward. Hope that helps.

[Doni Yourth]

DRAT!  I was going to post the message below but cannot see how to upload a zip file for Turkey Machine.  Some assistance, if you please.

"Here, TM.  Try this P83 setup on for size.  I used it at the 1st ADC Inter-League trial of only 14 laps or so at Zandvoort.  In the race, I scored a low 29 with it starting with full race fuel, 45 laps, iirc.  The base setup plus an iteration with suffix, 'a', is included in the zip."

[Hristo Itchov]

DRAT!  I was going to post the message below but cannot see how to upload a zip file for Turkey Machine.  Some assistance, if you please.

"Here, TM.  Try this P83 setup on for size.  I used it at the 1st ADC Inter-League trial of only 14 laps or so at Zandvoort.  In the race, I scored a low 29 with it starting with full race fuel, 45 laps, iirc.  The base setup plus an iteration with suffix, 'a', is included in the zip."

We can't attach files or even post our own topics. Perhaps a moderator could be talked to and provide us with a sub-forum with such capabilities?

[Doni Yourth]

Ah...  I see, Hristo.  Well, that's most unfortunate, then.  Too bad.

Failing the ability to upload a setup, I've created an abridged html export of the P83 setup I used for the ADC trial.  Fueled to 25 USG it shows.  As mentioned above, I did get down to the low 29's in-race in hot pursuit of Dave Fletcher, ADC Supremo, but wasn't so close as to be picking up a slipstream tow from him so the potential is genuine.  Hope this helps out, TM.

Car Setup: p83_znd_29p95ar
Track: Zandvoort
Steering Ratio  10:1 
Start Line Weight  1748 lb. 
Front Brake Bias  56% 
Ramp Angles  60/60 
Clutches  3 

Per Wheel Setups  Wheel  Tire Pressure  Wheel Rate  Bump  Rebound  Camber  Bump Rubber 
Left Front  20 psi  100 lbs/in.  1  2  -1.20 deg  0.50 in. 
Right Front  20 psi  100 lbs/in.  1  2  -1.20 deg  0.50 in. 
Left Rear  21 psi  180 lbs/in.  2  3  -1.10 deg  0.50 in. 
Right Rear  21 psi  180 lbs/in.  2  3  -1.10 deg  0.50 in. 

Per Axle Setups  Axle  Toe  Anti-Roll Bar Rate  Static Ride Height  Wing 
Front  -0.060 in.  100 lbs/in.  2.50 in.  No Wing 
Rear  0.500 in.  180 lbs/in.  2.65 in.  No Wing 

Gearing  Gear  Gear Ratio  Decimal Ratio  Final Drive Ratio 
Reverse  9/44  2.692:1  10.433:1 
First  10/31  3.100:1  12.012:1 
Second  18/41  2.278:1  8.826:1 
Third  21/39  1.857:1  7.196:1 
Fourth  20/30  1.500:1  5.813:1 
Fifth  21/27  1.286:1  4.982:1 
Sixth  24/28  1.167:1  4.521:1 
Differential  8/31  3.875:1  - 

Fuel  Current  25 gallons  41 Laps