clouds
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« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2012, 11:15:16 AM +0000 » |
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Hi. Like I said yesterday nite, at first I'm sorry to have rearended Bernie just at the last corner before the chequered flag because I misjudged the braking distance so my apologies to Bernie are due, and at second after the heap just a few meters after the green flag in wich I've involved I...unfortunately forgot to stop & go in the pitlane so take your decisions.
For the second race at Silverstone I've been suffering of a throttle command inversion (and this is not the only one case I've had). While I was slowing down approaching the Stowe turn chased by Hristo who was closing on me very fast, when I've raised the throttle and pressed on the brake pedal, the trottle had a strange behaviour and seemed like to be pressed at maximum overreving the engine and making me hitting the wall just in front of me. Fortunately my Ferrari seemed not having any damage but it has been difficult to get the car on track again because this kind of uncalibration in pedals has lasted after 4 or 5 seconds making me almost spinning out returning on track while the throttle pedal was having an On/Off behaviour.
And last but not least...why I was not been able to save my replay ? When I try to run a replay in 60fps why GPL Crashes To Desktop ?
Thanks
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« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 11:17:53 AM +0000 by clouds »
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Sergio "Clouds" Lonzar
...Houston, we've had a problem here!
Jack Swigert, April 13rd, 1970. Apollo 13 on the way to the moon.
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Cookie
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« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2012, 11:23:18 AM +0000 » |
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Sergio, please read the second post here Fulvio and Nicky, thanks again for your help! I never had this overload before with my server, and the races of last week did not show any signs of this. But it worked fine in Silvy after the change!
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« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 11:25:20 AM +0000 by Cookie »
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Axel "Cookie"
poor, he who sees no stars without the punch in the face
an aphorism of Stanislaus Jercy Lec
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fpolicardi
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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2012, 11:57:19 AM +0000 » |
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Sergio, please read the second post here Fulvio and Nicky, thanks again for your help! I never had this overload before with my server, and the races of last week did not show any signs of this. But it worked fine in Silvy after the change! Link doesn't work, see last post for the right link. Your welcome! Ciao
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Fulvio Policardi Team7 Driver
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clouds
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« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2012, 12:47:05 PM +0000 » |
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Rgr that Axel.
Thanks!
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Sergio "Clouds" Lonzar
...Houston, we've had a problem here!
Jack Swigert, April 13rd, 1970. Apollo 13 on the way to the moon.
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2012, 12:47:34 PM +0000 » |
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And no, I didn't notice any difference in handling with the 60 fps patch.
I do not agree with you: the game's physic does not change, but, imho, the game is more quickly in response to input. That might be the case for some PC and wheel/pedal configurations, but I really didn't see any difference on my end. If anything, it even makes it easier to drive, because everything goes smoother. @Axel - I know the Monaco times issue is not related to the 60 FPS patch, it was due to the bandwidth settings causing trouble. I'm not sure how you're going to correct the lap times, but I know we've done that before in UKGPL so somebody else knows how for sure. I know for certain that Kleinfeld, Sky and Bernie were actually lapped (nothing personal), but I don't know about the others down the order.
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Cookie
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« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2012, 01:05:52 PM +0000 » |
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If anything, it even makes it easier to drive, because everything goes smoother.
@Axel - I know the Monaco times issue is not related to the 60 FPS patch, it was due to the bandwidth settings causing trouble. I'm not sure how you're going to correct the lap times, but I know we've done that before in UKGPL so somebody else knows how for sure. I know for certain that Kleinfeld, Sky and Bernie were actually lapped (nothing personal), but I don't know about the others down the order.
Thanks for this compliment!As we all learn, and as I have never before seen those bandwidth settings on a 60fps server before, we hope that this problem is solved now! About the Monaco results, we will find a solution, but it will need some time as I am a newbie in LM2...
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Axel "Cookie"
poor, he who sees no stars without the punch in the face
an aphorism of Stanislaus Jercy Lec
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NickyIckx
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« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2012, 02:22:40 PM +0000 » |
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Maybe we can test this with BREASTS on a full grid with F2s and 65s tonight? good idea , I would then suggest 65s at Monaco and F2s at Silverstone . I will set up my server for both , using recommended settings outa mentioned readme. ( 5/84 5/384 ) .afaik my internet provides enough down/upload to handle 384 . But , Axel , if you want to test your server , of course I will be fine with that . thx Fulvio for hint ! mostly I do join via IP . the moment I have to join my own server , I had to . so (If you join by Igor you don't need to set anything on client as usual, only if you join direct IP you need to set core.ini parameters. ) was very important information to me
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« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 02:24:42 PM +0000 by NickyIckx »
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Cookie
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« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2012, 03:18:33 PM +0000 » |
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Great Nicky! If Clive agrees: Lets try your server I have this 6000 Internet by 1&1 I have set my server to 5/84 and 5/196 now for FC practice Kyalami
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« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 03:21:14 PM +0000 by Cookie »
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Axel "Cookie"
poor, he who sees no stars without the punch in the face
an aphorism of Stanislaus Jercy Lec
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2012, 10:41:47 PM +0000 » |
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Firstly a big thanks to Axel for organizing this! The first race at Monaco was a bit of a disaster for me. I arrived late and so had to start at the back of the grid. When the flag dropped everyone disappeared and then it started raining Ferrari's. Cars were appearing from everywhere. When I did get going the field was pretty strung out so I couldn't tell if there was more or less warping. When I did catch another car (and when I got lapped) the connection seemed pretty good and there was no discernable warp. As far as car control was concerned, the steering was more precise and the braking more responsive. The second race at Silverstone was much better. The very tight grid resulted in me banging wheels with someone and I spun out shortly after the start. However there wasn't any warp as far as I can remember. If it hadn't been for the tight grid the start should have been pretty clean. During the race the server was rock solid. No warping and the cars were always visible (until I got left behind of course). Again the car control was much improved. Overall a good test for me but I suggest we need to do a few more tests before we consider running the 60fps patch for a league race. Personally I think it is the way to go but we have to be sure. As far as I can ascertain the 60fps patch should (in theory) give us less warp contacts and (my experience so far confirms this) better car control. Warp is the single most problematic issue in on-line racing as far as I'm concerned so anything that reduces it has to be worth investigating. If the tests don't back up the theory then we'd have to decide if the extra complications with using the 60fps patch was worth the effort. Good advice from Fulvio regarding the core.ini settings. Particularly the bit about only having to change the client and server send rates from 3 to 5 for the client when connecting by IP. However this is the bit that I don't quite understand about the 60fps patch. The 384 is the bandwidth that sets the number of cars that you can see. The 3 or 5 dictates how many ticks between the server or client sends, i.e. the rate at which the server and client exchange data about the position of the cars. To reduce warp we need better position data so surely we need less ticks between sends. According to Bart Westra "The time unit in GPL. 1 Tick = 1/36 seconds or ~27.778ms. When there are enough system resources, GPL displays a new frame every tick to give you 36 fps (frames per second)." So using 5 with the 60fps patch means we have pretty much the same latency with the 60fps as we have with the standard 36fps. So how is that going to help with the warp?
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2012, 11:16:15 PM +0000 » |
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According to Bart Westra "The time unit in GPL. 1 Tick = 1/36 seconds or ~27.778ms. When there are enough system resources, GPL displays a new frame every tick to give you 36 fps (frames per second)." So using 5 with the 60fps patch means we have pretty much the same latency with the 60fps as we have with the standard 36fps. So how is that going to help with the warp? Good point, it should produce the same kind of warp contacts as with 36 fps. Perhaps it's only less pronounced warp contacts when we run on setting 3 and 60 fps, but as we saw in these races, that requires less than 12-13 people on the server, at least on Axel's.
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BadBlood
Former UKGPL Moderators
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Sassafrassarassum Rick Rastardly!
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« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2012, 01:44:59 AM +0000 » |
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I believe that part of the 60FPS patch is to make GPL reset the tick to 1/60th of a second.
We currently use send_every=3 so that give 12 updates a second. Using 5 with the 60fps would imply 5/60 of a second per update = 12. There is nothing to stop us trying other parameters but we are limited by bandwidth whatever we do so it is a case of finding a sweet spot.
I think when Cookie had it set to 3 he was trying to update 20 times a second - 4 would be 15 times a second. It may help with warp but lose with lag where frames are dropped. Case of suck it and see. I had noticeable 'wobble' at various points but connectivity has never been a big issue for me. The major effect of 60FPS is client side.
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BadBlood aka Angel Moose GPLRank +71.5ish GPL65Rank +71.1ish Other ranks? Middlin' Slowish
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clouds
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« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2012, 09:48:13 AM +0000 » |
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Honestly speaking I've not noticed so much difference between 36 and 60fps in a stand alone stint, at least not so much like I was reading since the 1st exit of the 60fps patch. At monaco I had much warp and I've seen cars flashing in front of me while it has been not at Silverstone.
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Sergio "Clouds" Lonzar
...Houston, we've had a problem here!
Jack Swigert, April 13rd, 1970. Apollo 13 on the way to the moon.
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fpolicardi
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« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2012, 10:37:06 AM +0000 » |
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Both frequent ratio (3,4 or 5) and number of cars visible(132 for 8, 384 for all) have big impact on Upload bandwith of the server, while they have less impact on Download bandwith and more impact on CPU/GFX performance of clients.
I'll install 60fps patch on T7 server so we could test next race on T7 server that has a commercial 10/10 Mbs connection and see how things go with 3/XXX or 4/XXX settings. As we saw last race connection problems arised soon on the server in practice as clients went over 12/13 so we can easy adjust the settings in a little time.
Ciao
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Fulvio Policardi Team7 Driver
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Cookie
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« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2012, 11:58:21 AM +0000 » |
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Thanks Fulvio for this offer!
I am not happy with the Monaco race inconvenience we all had, but I am happy to have made this experience, because we learned a lot about this connection related stuff.
To me it seems that there are 2 different things intermingeled:
1. The 60 times per second updated collisionbox of the cars <-> 2. the X times per second client - server updates
These 2 factors are independent and do not interfere!
@1 the 60fps collisionbox with its smaller peaks is less than the 36fps collisionbox, so you will have less warp and you can have closer fights!
@2 The client-server update rate has an effect only to the server! In this "Monaco" case the traffic just was too high for my servers connection as it was nearly double upload Kb/s and download Kb/s!
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« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 12:10:20 PM +0000 by Cookie »
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Axel "Cookie"
poor, he who sees no stars without the punch in the face
an aphorism of Stanislaus Jercy Lec
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Cookie
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« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2012, 01:52:07 PM +0000 » |
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Now I need your help to get the right Monaco results! The problem is caused by a bug in GPL or the Monaco track!
RACE FASTEST LAPS
Pos Driver Time Lap 1 Alex Barresi 12.606s 1 2 Albrecht Kleinf65 13.048s 1 3 Pierre D 17.211s 1 4 Bernie65 Darwin 20.833s 1 5 Nigel Smith65 20.906s 1 6 Hristo Itchov65 1m27.809s 16 7 Bob Whitwell 1m30.140s 14 8 Mark75 Barresi 1m30.918s 15 9 Dave Rainier65 1m31.451s 15 10 Sergio Lonzar 65 1m31.696s 16 11 Skymole 2173 -m65 1m31.753s 17 12 65 evilclive 1m31.765s 3 13 Axel Cookie 1m32.132s 2 14 Nicky Ickx65 1m33.169s 6 15 Jason Blito 1m33.222s 10 16 Phil Thornton65 1m33.384s 14 17 Axel Cordt 1m41.660s 4
RACE RESULTS (After 18 laps)
Pos No Driver Team Nat Laps Race Time Diff 1 6 Hristo Itchov65 Ferrari JPN 18 26m55.339s 2 10 Albrecht Kleinf65 Ferrari GER 18 27m26.296s 30.957s 3 14 Mark75 Barresi Ferrari ITA 18 27m39.980s 44.641s 4 9 Sergio Lonzar 65 Ferrari ITA 18 28m22.605s 1m27.266s 5 1 Skymole 2173 -m65 Ferrari JPN 18 28m25.549s 1m30.210s 6 16 Bernie65 Darwin Ferrari GBR 18 28m33.436s 1m38.097s 7 12 Dave Rainier65 Ferrari MON 17 27m06.571s 1 lap(s) 8 8 Jason Blito Ferrari GBR 17 27m43.281s 1 lap(s) 9 17 Phil Thornton65 Ferrari GBR 17 28m02.005s 1 lap(s) 10 22 Pierre D Ferrari CAN 17 28m10.252s 1 lap(s) 11 2 Bob Whitwell Ferrari GBR 16 26m59.436s 2 lap(s) 12 11 Nigel Smith65 Ferrari GBR 9 13m44.613s 9 lap(s) 13 3 Axel Cookie Ferrari GER 6 9m52.814s 12 lap(s) 14 21 Nicky Ickx65 Ferrari RSA 6 9m55.463s 12 lap(s) 15 4 Axel Cordt Ferrari GER 4 7m59.003s 14 lap(s) 16 5 65 evilclive Ferrari GBR 3 4m52.254s 15 lap(s) 17 7 Alex Barresi Ferrari ITA 1 13.621s 17 lap(s)
- Hristo won it! no doubt - Albrecht claims to have been only overtaken once, by Hristo!? - Mark is your 3rd position correct? - Sergio is your 4th position correct? - Sky is your 5th position correct? - Bernie is your 6th position correct?
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Axel "Cookie"
poor, he who sees no stars without the punch in the face
an aphorism of Stanislaus Jercy Lec
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