GT fun series Race 2 at Monza 25th Feb

[blito]

I`m willing to give it another go. I personally think the trouble we had on the rolling lap was a lot less trouble than we would have had at C Grande from a standing start.
Incidentally, I`ve done about half a dozen rolling starts before in GTR2 ( including one from pole position - yay for reverse grids!) and have gotten to quite like them. We never seem to have startline/t1 pile-ups in that game!

[blito]

BTW - I`ve noticed that these GT races dont count towards our SROU racing history - can that be rectified?

[Cookie]

I personally think the trouble we had on the rolling lap was a lot less trouble than we would have had at C Grande from a standing start.

I totally agree! Maybe next time in 2 rows...

But first of all I want to thank Clive for this great GT fun series. 

No problem here cause I know sh.t happens...

My race was short cause my engine had got a damage and I became slower and slower, in Lesmo 1 I kissed the armco a little with my rear end what maybe caused the end of the race for me when the engine exploded just before SF line.

For me the problem was the pro modus! In intermediate this would maybe not have happened...

Looking forward to the next GT fun series which will make same or even more fun

Greets

Axel  (not Alex!)

[Ronniepeterson]

Always willing to give it another go. But a few initial observations. Why is this any safer than a standing start where cars are going much slower at the point where the race actually starts theoretically giving people more time to react to trouble ahaed. Also, the Porsche is a slow car, I'm not suggesting its gets a 3 lap headstart so why are cars like the Chaps being given an artificial helping hand because they can't get off the line? Don't they have a big enough adavantage already? Pick your car and live with it I say.

[Hristo Itchov]

True about the Chaps, but it does make the start safer. Chap drivers are almost 99% certain to be out at the front and by doing a very a slow start, those behind have no option but to either slow down with them or go around them. It may not be so dangerous on a track like Monza, but on other tracks it can be disasterous.

As for the Porsche, we're not going to run it along with the other cars in the upcoming official division, are we? 

[maddog]

Yes well, that was interesting.  I didn't manage to stain my Ferrari red.  There was perilously little time to, though the opportunity did arise, well before the startline!

I hopped aboard my Ferrari, having been informed that rather than racing, I was being lead, on a casual jaunt about the Italian countryside.  This was suddenly livened up, by what I assumed to be some kind of drunken brawl. Became somewhat perturbed when one or two of those behind me, decided to gain some extra height, to get a better view of the action.  And immediately concluded, the calm and tranquility touted in the brochures, must have hidden itself elsewhere about the track.

As people retook their rightful seats, we started to race.  But then, the helpful Ferrari alongside me, gave me a rather rude tap on the shoulder, to remind me to slow down for the bridge we were rapidly approaching.  Having parked backwards against it, I decided I might try a spot of train spotting, seeing as the track was temporarily busy anyway.  You can imagine my disappointment, when I realized, it wasn't a railway bridge at all, but a languishing moth-eaten road, with no transport.  And with my cars wheels perched against the bridge, and no way to reset them onto the ground, I was stranded.

Had the sudden thought, I might be able to flag down one of the rapidly circulating bread vans, they called Chaparrals, as they looked quite roomy.  But soon realized they were being kept too busy with slower traffic.  So I sat and watched the race, which had somehow passed me by.

An interesting idea, to combine a majestic tour of the scenery, with a motor race. And then to prevent anyone from rejoining, after they've been quite innocently lured, into trying out one of the picnic spots, spotted along the way.  I'll mark my diary for next year.    

[Ronniepeterson]

Just watched the replay of the rolling start and I cannot think of a single positive thing to say about it. I tell a lie, Hristo as polesitter and leader of the warm up lap was the only driver not at fault. But be honest the rest of us were forgetting or ignoring all the rules. A combination of moving off the line before the car ahead of you, too close or too far away from the car in front, unnecessary jockeying for position, no hint of single file, when the trouble started people simply recovered into the path of others causing further problems, people trying to take advantage of others misfortune. Meanwhile Hristo and Juha were oblivious to the mayhem. Total disaster and race killer. But we need to have a few more goes before we say yay or nay.

[Nigel Smith]

Really enjoyed this. Not having any setup experience with these beasts meant running the default, with just a tweak to the left camber and one step up on the gears. It understeered very badly but flew down the straights- thats one step forward one step back. Whats the time lapse between qually and race, 'cos yet again I missed the start and I was only changing fuel!
Once I caught everyone up on the warm-up lap [I'm definitely in favour ] AND AVOIDED THE MAYHEM, things settled down nicely, and that extra speed paId dividends but all the time I could feel the car becoming more reluctant to turn in the Lesmos and the Parabollox. Eventually- lap 26 I think- the inevitable happened and I wiped a wheel off on the armco at Lesmo 1. Just gutted I didn't make the finish and get some points for the team.
I WILL BE BACK !!!!!

[maddog]

But we need to have a few more goes before we say yay or nay.

It says very little for the skill of drivers, if we're unable to accelerate from zero to full speed, without contacting those around us to have a chat.  And what little it says, is not good!   

[Hristo Itchov]

@Ronnie - it's sad to read that. It appears there were many who don't realize that the purpose of the warm up/pace lap is to get some heat in the tires, increase oil temp and mentally prepare for the race. It's not the time to try and intimidate those around you or to play silly games. The excitement level goes too high obviously, but there's nothing exciting in a warm up lap. As long as everyone understands that they need to keep 3-4 cars lengths from the driver in front and to avoid accelerating or braking too much and too suddenly, and as long as we keep single file (one-car column) formation, we'll do just fine.

The only actual rule we need to achieve an agreement is, what's the pace the leading car should go at (both minimum and maximum, excluding corners), and where is the point at which the leading car begins to accelerate for the start of the race.

@Nige - Once qualifying time reaches zero, GPL goes into Stand-by mode, waiting for everyone on a flying lap (those who have crossed the s/f line before the clock went zero) to finish it. Then it goes into Complete mode, although sometimes it waits for a driver in the pits to get off the pit lane before it can do that. Complete state lasts about 10 seconds, then the countdown for the race begins and it's 30 seconds. You need to join the track within those 30 seconds.

Once the 30 seconds have elapsed, the green button disappears and the drivers on the track are given control of their gearboxes and can change gears, and make a fault start if they want. 1 minute after the start of the race (or maybe it's 1 minute after those 30 seconds have passed, not sure), the green button appears again to allow those who missed the regular start to join the race from the pits. Depending on your pit stall, you may be positioned after the s/f line, which means you'll be counted as a lap down for not having crossed the line on your out lap, but you should still keep racing normally and ignore blue flags.

At the end of the race you also get a Stand-by mode, just like in Qualifying, so the race isn't over until it switches to Complete (which is when you're allowed to chat BTW) as the last car crosses the line.

[b_1_rd]

Really enjoyed this. Not having any setup experience with these beasts meant running the default, with just a tweak to the left camber and one step up on the gears. It understeered very badly but flew down the straights- thats one step forward one step back. Whats the time lapse between qually and race, 'cos yet again I missed the start and I was only changing fuel!
Once I caught everyone up on the warm-up lap [I'm definitely in favour ] AND AVOIDED THE MAYHEM, things settled down nicely, and that extra speed paId dividends but all the time I could feel the car becoming more reluctant to turn in the Lesmos and the Parabollox. Eventually- lap 26 I think- the inevitable happened and I wiped a wheel off on the armco at Lesmo 1. Just gutted I didn't make the finish and get some points for the team.
I WILL BE BACK !!!!!

Nige - try these revised setups from JR, you will find they have less understeer tuned in  

http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=6605&st=0

[EvilClive]

I have just emerged from my cave, where I retreated to hide my embarrasment after last nights cock-up on the rolling start!!     sorry again guys.

I think maybe we might avoid some probs if we stay in 2 columns as per the start grid, that would ensure twice as much clear track ahead on the rolling lap?

Thanks to me, we all lost a huge chunk of time to Juha and Hristo who flew away in the 2F's, ( great times guys!1)  and I found myself trailing Nicky in his Fez with Fulvio in his 2F. I was quite happy with my pace and maintained a "safe" gap from where I could watch their dice but avoid any spins etc. As the fuel load was coming down and the tyres came up to working temp, the car felt more settled and I knew that I could push if I needed to later in the race.

I think I was still mulling that start fiasco over in my mind, when I ran wide ( for absolultey no reason at all!!) approaching the bridge after about 10 laps of steady pace, and managed to perform a 180 spin which for a moment I thought would take me straight down the track and miss the hard stuff..........but it didn't and I got mashed against the concrete of the bridge. I probably deserved that!!  

It seems there are differing views on the rolling start, but that it might be worth trying a few more times at different circuits before we decide if its viable or not. ( perhaps I will start from the pits in future!!).


I would like to thank everyone for joining in these GT races and for giving us the chance to get some idea about how these cars can be raced ( or not raced ). I will publish the final results table in a day or so and then try and work out where all the handicapping went wrong and allowed the 2F's to win so many races!!!  . I might be revising some of the token values (for cars and drivers) if we run this format in a proper series!! lol.

If everyone is still happy to join in some more fun races, I will organise further events on Friday evenings until the new season of races starts in UKGPL ??

 As this has been an unofficial "team" series I would like to retain that element so that finishing has its rewards in gaining team points. We can either add these races on to the current series or run them as "stand alone" team events. As it is a fun series there is very little difference IMHO. Also if everyone agrees, keeping the same teams will allow me to compare the results of the same car/driver combinations on differeing circuits.

I would like to try and find some tracks where the Porsche might benefit, although it does look like the 2F is just "the " car to have almost anywhere. I have a couple of ideas up my sleeve and will announce the next race early next week.

Just some of the circuits under my consideration...(but I would like to hear from Porsche drivers who may have track suggestions of their own, before we consign the Porker to a series of its own.)

(Targa has been suggested but it really is not practical to run a grid started race there, and a rolling start might be an endurance feat in itself!!!)

Brands Hatch
Adelaide
Pau
Leipzig
Dijon Prenois
Mosport (wet)

Suggestions received...

Nurby
St Jovite....good call 


The main problem is that just about all circuits have a straight!! and that is where the Chapps dominate.

[Hristo Itchov]

I'm up for more fun races, but only if we finally pronounce the current series as finished, so I could test other cars in the following races, without worrying about team points. I know it's a test series, but we Oranges take it seriously nonetheless! 

[b_1_rd]

Will try and make some more races for sure, Clive and thanks for your time an effort putting this one together.

I know there's always 1001 ways to create a series, but how about drivers just going it alone (i.e. no teams) but the driver must take a different car each race, just for some variety.  Personally, I would like to see the Porsche left in, for the fun races at least.


I know they are not to everyone's taste, and frequently are regarded as ruining a classic track, but it could be worth looking at the more modern version of the older tracks, where many will still be familiar with the track layout, but with added chicanes; they were, after all, designed to make the racing safer, or in other words, slow it down.  One that springs to mind in Monza 99.  I have not driven it and have no idea what its like in GPL but its just one that sprung to mind given our latest run.

A run out at Nurby in GTs would appeal to me too

Just a couple of thoughts.

[EvilClive]

Steve - I was really enjoying our little game over the first quarter of the race and was disapointed you retired after I dropped back. Shame i had that little trip across the gravel at Para - I was so keen on my mirrors thinking about letting the leader lap us that i forgot to brake 
Anyway, it was fun in a strange sort of way, changing up a thousand revs early and deliberately running 5s/lap off my potential to make sure the car lasted... I finished 9th (of 9 still running) but the server has classified me as a retirement.. maybe `cos i was 4 laps down

Although GPL will automatically drop you if you are a certain distance down on the winner, my rules for this series clearly state that if you finish, you score points!! So I am overriding Papyrus on this one