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Author Topic: Next GT fun series race at Rouen les Essarts Fri 11th Feb  (Read 6549 times)
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john roberts
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« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2011, 12:10:10 PM +0000 »

I am considering a "Rolling Start" for the PRO Monza race, which might save a few engines from exploding on the grid?

if you slowly build up the revs of the engine rather that just redline it straight away , then you won't blow up on the grid .

john
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2011, 12:42:13 PM +0000 »

I am considering a "Rolling Start" for the PRO Monza race
I don't think UKGPL have ever tried that (Phil?)
Not to my knowledge, which goes back to season 4 when I first joined UKGPL, so I think it's fair to say we haven't tried it.  As someone said in an earlier post, other leagues have tried it so it would be best to ask them how it worked out in practice.

Further to the Rouen start, I've seen the replay and I know exactly what happened.  So does everyone else, especially Pedro Wink.  What is important here is to learn and not to blame and argue, thankfully that is what is happening on this occasion, nobody is too upset and we are all having fun.  But if it happened in a league race on PRO rather than a fun race with a shift R "safety net" I think a few people might have got annoyed.

There are only 2 ways to sort this IMO.

1.  Stick with PRO rules and try to eradicate bad starts.
2.  Accept bad starts will always happen and allow a shift R so the innocent parties don't suffer too much.

It may be that option 1 is the only feasible option if it is the only way to slow down the Chaparrals.
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2011, 12:50:04 PM +0000 »

I don't see why its too much to ask if it increases the chance of everyone getting past the first few laps into some proper racing instead of there being a crash at T1 or Lap 1 and spreading or reducing the field further than it would be by a 'parade' lap; surely that's the idea of racing?

And whose fault would it be if a crash happens? Certainly not the racing's fault, but the drivers'. How are people ever going to improve if you keep sanitizing racing to the point where responsibility is completely taken off their shoulders?

Two major concerns:

1) Someone in front of you driving slowly and by having to stay behind without being allowed to pass, you drop time (and lose the tow) to the cars ahead.

2) Someone makes a mistake and you're forced to wait behind until they recover. And I'm not talking about spins or offs, but about going wide, losing the car for a moment, etc.

It's again the tendency to look for excuses for not driving in a more safe manner and reduce the risk of incidents by changing the nature of racing. Don't we have wide spread grids already? Don't we allow for shift-r? Aren't we going to try a rolling start for exactly that purpose? I think we should draw the line right there or next time someone is going to propose that you should never attempt to pass on the outside line or something.

I think it's a good idea to just avoid going 3-wide down the straight and to leave enough room in front of you in case of emergency (or just earlier) braking. That's what safe driving means and it doesn't detract from racing.
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BadBlood
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« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2011, 01:01:13 PM +0000 »

a single file lap at a reasonable ( steady) pace

What happens if I get blue flags? Wink
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« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2011, 02:33:34 PM +0000 »

What happens if I get blue flags? Wink

Why would you get a blue flag on first lap?


As for rolling starts. I'm a big fan of this kind of starts in GT cars. We need to remamber that those cars were made for rolling starts and some of them have problems with GP starts.

At HSO they use rolling starts and they don't have problems with that:

Quote
Races will feature a rolling start.
Once everybody is on the grid and green lights have been shown, drivers will start a formation lap at low speed. Do not overtake, keep a good margin with other drivers.
After the last turn, cars will keep rolling at reduced speed in the starting grid formation.
When the leading car will be in sight of the start/finish line, an admin will give the real start of the race by typing "GREEN FLAG" in the chat.

This really isn't that hard to made a safe rolling start Wink
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maddog
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« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2011, 02:54:45 PM +0000 »

As for rolling starts. I'm a big fan of this kind of starts in GT cars. We need to remamber that those cars were made for rolling starts and some of them have problems with GP starts.

These cars were not made for rolling starts.  I was at Brands Hatch to see them during this era.  Rolling starts are a much more recent phenomenon, in European racing.  So either we haven't the skill and discipline to reproduce reality, or we haven't yet learnt, they all start differently.
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« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2011, 04:19:53 PM +0000 »

if the same goes next GT events ,what about rule of passing not allowed before T1 ?
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2011, 04:51:24 PM +0000 »

Until T1 is OK, but if you ask me not to pass during the whole opening lap, I'm going to disappoint.  Cheesy
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b_1_rd
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« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2011, 04:53:00 PM +0000 »

I don't see why its too much to ask if it increases the chance of everyone getting past the first few laps into some proper racing instead of there being a crash at T1 or Lap 1 and spreading or reducing the field further than it would be by a 'parade' lap; surely that's the idea of racing?

And whose fault would it be if a crash happens? Certainly not the racing's fault, but the drivers'. How are people ever going to improve if you keep sanitizing racing to the point where responsibility is completely taken off their shoulders?

Two major concerns:

1) Someone in front of you driving slowly and by having to stay behind without being allowed to pass, you drop time (and lose the tow) to the cars ahead.

2) Someone makes a mistake and you're forced to wait behind until they recover. And I'm not talking about spins or offs, but about going wide, losing the car for a moment, etc.

It's again the tendency to look for excuses for not driving in a more safe manner and reduce the risk of incidents by changing the nature of racing. Don't we have wide spread grids already? Don't we allow for shift-r? Aren't we going to try a rolling start for exactly that purpose? I think we should draw the line right there or next time someone is going to propose that you should never attempt to pass on the outside line or something.

I think it's a good idea to just avoid going 3-wide down the straight and to leave enough room in front of you in case of emergency (or just earlier) braking. That's what safe driving means and it doesn't detract from racing.

If we are doing a rolling start that's what I was meaning by a parade lap, so it appears that there is confusion somewhere.  Probably me misinterpreting something  Huh  Isn't this planned for the pro race so there is no shift-r?

Certainly my POV is not to sanitize racing by any means, nor look for excuses for bad driving but to maximise the chance of enjoyment for everyone, not just those at the front of the grid who normally get a clean start and have a decreased risk of having someone else's accident.  We're talking about lap 1, not the complete race; I'd hate it to turn into the farce that is F1 at them moment where there is positive discouragement of anyone taking the slightest risk.

Martin - They did use rolling starts, frequently.  Yes, they also used standing starts and on very tight grids to the point the drivers could reach out and touch the car next to them which were, for the spectator, far more exciting but, for me, they run too much of a risk in mid pack for sim racing starts and normally result in a significant incident to effective spoil the race for too many people too frequently.

Anyway, Clive has already indicated that he is considering the rolling start, it's his series and his call; if he decides to trial it then great, if not then I'll be happy with it also.  As long as things are considered then that's all that can be asked.
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« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2011, 04:54:39 PM +0000 »

A T1 rule could be just as effective I think so agree with you both on that too.
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Steve

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« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2011, 04:58:38 PM +0000 »

You spoke about not being allowed to pass for a whole lap after the start (excluding the pace/warm up lap), so that's what I disagreed on. Up to T1 is fine by me, but after that you better watch your (virtual?) mirrors.  Grin
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b_1_rd
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« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2011, 05:04:48 PM +0000 »

 Grin not for at least the first half of the race I hope, I'll wave as you pass again...and again...and again if Rouen was anything to go by.

Sorry, yes didn't phrase it well, I meant only 1 lap in total of no passing i.e. the warm up lap, not lap 1 of the race proper.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 05:06:53 PM +0000 by b_1_rd » Logged

Steve

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« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2011, 05:59:38 PM +0000 »

Right. I guess you're not as conservative as I thought.  Cheesy
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EvilClive
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« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2011, 08:59:17 PM +0000 »

I have been out of the house all day and only just returned to find a "nice" discussion brewing re the rolling start.

So, just to clarify what I have in mind for the PRO race at Monza....because GPL does not allow a "warm up lap" or a "parade lap".

My proposal is for the cars to assemble on the grid as normal, but when the start flag drops we move off in single file and hold our positions until we exit Parabolica when full on racing begins.  

OK, we effectively "lose" a lap from the race length, but everyone should get off the grid safely ( without blowing an engine) and be ready to go for it as they enter the S/F straight first time around.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 10:50:36 PM +0000 by EvilClive » Logged

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blito
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« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2011, 09:14:27 PM +0000 »

and be ready to go for it as they enter the S/F straight first time around.

except for those who dont like the rule who will already be at Lesmo lap 2 by then.....
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Jason Blito
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