Season 21 - mid season review

[miner2049er]

I think the tokens and values are just about right.

Ronnie was the class of the field and I expect Ross will be next season if Ronnie moves up but the rest are quite close so we have quite a good spread.

As long as the circuits chosen have a good variety things should even out over the 10 races. At the end of the season the fastest guy should win the title as long as he is reasonably consistent and that's what happened.

If I'd won it then the handicap would have been wrong.

[maddog]

Why not start Servers at 45 or 60, upon pain of death, but no laps allowed until 30.  I'd suggest a race report, and penalty for anyone who puts in a freebie.

It's really down to when the division mod is available to start it hence leaving it flexible but allowing an earlier start to check for any blips. We could say no going on before 30 minutes but is having the server there too tempting. Not saying any of you guys would of course but, for example, someone new might forget. We would then have to do extra policing and start DQ'ing (or dishing out penalties) after the event, which is not ideal. Oh yes and it's also extra work checking for the moderator

Thoughts were requested on this idea - policing would be easy - arrivals at 30mins could check for illegal lap times. . . and perhaps skip the, pain of death bit, as this could frighten some newer members.

[BadBlood]

If we were going to have handicapping in the 67's Hannah and I should get a couple of laps start...

Seriously I think the handicapping is OK. If we change it someone will moan  not that all of you lot aren't helpful and supportive at all times... <ahem>.

As regards the server starting, I intend to start it at 08:55 whatever with 35 mins qually. It is helpful however to have the extra window. I sometimes have appointments at 9pm (usually with the goggle box!)

I don't think I will police qually before that. The modding work is heavy enough. If somebody is that keen and wants a clean lap... no tow though...

[Ronniepeterson]

I would like to make a comment about the chassis "points" tally for Privs Cup ,

Wouldd like to hear your opinions on the fact that the Lotus chassis is "way" too cheap 

Also the gap between the other faster chassis Fez etc.  and escp on the faster tracks,  is too wide.

IMO the points tally needs reviewing to encourage faster racers to use the slower cars throughout the season , and thus giving those racers with lesser talents a bigger piece of Privvy Pie.

Re the discussion on tokens/shift-r in the Privateers.

I think Bernie has a point re the current token system maybe favouring the faster drivers. However as Martin and I think Ross pointed out the current system was set to allow at least all of the cars to be used by all drivers. For the record I used the BRM fours times and the Brabham once to allow me to use the faster car of my choice (Ferrari, Eagle or Lotus) when I thought I would need it for a particular track. So maybe reducing the number of free tokens available at the start of the season for the faster drivers might prevent them from using the faster cars so often?

What puts me off the Works Division and attracts me to the Privateers is the Shift-r! To turn up on race night and have an incident of my own or someone else's making which ends my race early permanently is not appealing. I race to win but I race for fun. To be consistant and competitive I need to practice. The single shift-r, while not guaranteeting it, makes practice time worthwhile and a gives me a second chance to enjoy race night. This might not be ideal for the purists but I think it works and encourages more drivers to compete, just look at the entry numbers for the novices (multiple shift-r’s I know but you get the idea).

[b_1_rd]

IMHO the 67's should be on a level playing field as per now, no handicap.  The tokens simply add a bit of a tactical element into the mix.  Some drivers are better at some tracks than others, others are better at different tracks, therefore the choice of faster chassis depends on the track you are better at.

There should be at least one series where by being 'fast' should not be penalised, there's enough of that elsewhere.

[Podkrecony_Ziutek]

So maybe reducing the number of free tokens available at the start of the season for the faster drivers might prevent them from using the faster cars so often?

But then we would have a handicap system in Grads. Problem is, that Grads were created as division with no handicap at all.

IMO instead of trying to introduce handicapping into Grads. Fast drivers from Privateers should join Works, just as it was originally intended

[b_1_rd]

So maybe reducing the number of free tokens available at the start of the season for the faster drivers might prevent them from using the faster cars so often?

But then we would have a handicap system in Grads. Problem is, that Grads were created as division with no handicap at all.

IMO instead of trying to introduce handicapping into Grads. Fast drivers from Privateers should join Works, just as it was originally intended

 

[BadBlood]

If Ronnie is going to stay in the Privateers then we should run mixed mod races and he can have a 65 chassis at Spa while I get the 69 anything....He'd still beat me though

Maybe the token allowance should also be handicapped - e.g. Ronnie starts with zero - I start with 20 - something like that...

[s2173]

Actually the privateers format is the one i most like and i wouldn't like to see it changed... it would even be nice to implement it in some other divisions. Its not in no way unfair to anyone, just the driver skill gap is too huge, more than in most other divs. I think there are drivers form -15 rank to +200, and i dont see anything wrong with that either.

Chasis handicapping doesnt have much result anyway... I think the last pro race at spa was won by pair of hondas, and lots of the historic races - by a mclaren... What I mean is, if hannah and Badblood were allowed to drive lotuses, and all others drove cooper, I doubth the results would be changed at all. It will have effect only on drivers that are wery close on skill level anyway, and I might win against Rainer or Cookie if they are limited to cooper... but i might win against them if I focus hard enough or get lucky too, and this is how race should be imo.

[Ronniepeterson]

My original reply in response to the discussion initiated by Bernie was to offer a possible way of altering the tokens system for the challenging 67 cars in the Privateers, but not to provide a means for me to remain. I actually think the current token system is perfect and should not be changed.

For the record I am unlikely to sign up next season in Privateers its more a question of whether I can stomach the 67 cars in Works with no shift-r, can I be bothered to put in the effort in these cars with no back up plan? The 67 cars are my favourite by far so it would be hard not to but that's one for me to decide.

However, UKGPL provides plenty of other excellent championships in slightly less demanding cars so I am not overly concerned about my GPL fix next season!

[b_1_rd]

Well, I half agree Ronnie.  I too like the fall back of having a reset, because of other commitments I cannot practice as much as I used to so elected to register in privs and for my own entertainment value took the challenge of the slower chassis BRM for the season; it's one of the most enjoyable 67 seasons I've had because most of the time I had someone to race with.

However, I also think 'Works' should be run on pro because it does promote, on the most part, more sensible driving with better risk management on the drivers behalf on overtakes.

Privs is rightly set to allow a reset because it is aimed at those learning to control these beasts while also providing a reasonable 'playground', for want of a better phrase, to allow those who don't wish to or are unable to commit to the added requirement or pressure of a pro race.

[miner2049er]

Maybe the token allowance should also be handicapped - e.g. Ronnie starts with zero - I start with 20 - something like that...

Nooooooooooooooooooooo.........

[Ronniepeterson]

No argument from me Steve. My mantra has always been whatever the organisers/mods of UKGPL decide is good with me. Getting back to the subject of the mid season review, what has been discussed and proposed in the season 22 taster demonstrates that their is going to be plenty on offer to satisfy everyone, including me!!! I'm looking forward to it already, but first we still have Laguna Seca with its corkscrew and unlimited shift-r's, brilliant.

[Ross Neilson]

For the record I am unlikely to sign up next season in Privateers its more a question of whether I can stomach the 67 cars in Works with no shift-r

Ronnie you've been racing in Pro's and Historics with out a shift-R this season, how have you found that compared to Privateers?

In any case you are not forced to do Works if you don't want to. Bernie won the title last season and stayed in Privs, and Vos won it two years ago but is also in Privs now.

You and I have had some good battles this season and the standard you set is something for us all to try and beat.

[BadBlood]

Maybe the token allowance should also be handicapped - e.g. Ronnie starts with zero - I start with 20 - something like that...

Nooooooooooooooooooooo.........

Well it was worth a try