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Author Topic: Novice tips  (Read 4263 times)
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maddog
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2013, 11:59:56 PM +0100 »

I don't know if Johnny has raced on the same track as Hristo, but he is amongst the best in the business.  I imagine even the fast guys take notice of his ideas and technique, because they work.  But this thread has now become confusing.

You guys need 2 threads - Pro tips , and NOVICE TIPS - RESTART.   For Novices, 10 clear subject titles or  11, for experimental recklessness under supervision, in the GPL Labs.  Pro-fessor H. for the Pro's, could offer a separate coarse, to those interested in gaining a degree in cornering, if that's not already been done.  You could even use the same subject titles.  Cool
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 12:06:06 AM +0100 by maddog » Logged
EvilClive
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2013, 10:50:00 AM +0100 »

The biggest problem with this topic, and publishing a guide to setups, is the danger of starting a row between those who DO tinker with setups about which is the correct way to develop a setup.

From experience, opinions about setups are like noses....everybody has one!! plus I am convinced that whatever setup you are looking for will be dictated by your driving style ( or more correctly, the style in which you want to drive).

So, I think there is room for an interesting discussion between the more experienced members regarding setups and how we think they work for us.
But I also think that there is a real need for a straightforward "Starter Kit" for those who want to start playing with setups and trying different things, because quite frankly there is a whole world of different handling out there waiting to be explored.
I suggest that anyone who has stuck with the default up until now should download a couple of setups for the same car and circuit from those available on the track database and just try them. You will think that you are driving a totally different car, or that the laws of physics have somehow been corrupted momentarily. What you find, you might feel is better or worse than what you are used to but it will show you that handling can be dramatically changed by adjusting the setup.


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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2013, 04:25:13 PM +0100 »

I think you can easily come to basic approach to setting up the majority of GPL cars (F1 type cars anyway) by just looking at a collection of setups. Here's an example of a setup (in metric units) that would work for most cars, ranging from 65 to 67:

Front Tyre Pressure: 131 to 159 for F1 cars, 152-172 for F2 mod.
Front Springs: 140
Front Bump: 2
Front Rebound: 2 or 3
Front Camber: -0.50 to -1.25
Front Bump Rubber: almost always minimum
Front Ride Height: almost always minimum

Front Toe: -0.064 to -0.508 (less with 65, 66 2L and F2, more, in negative direction, with 66 3L and 67)
Rear Toe: 0.127 to 0.699 (same as above, except in positive direction)

Rear Tyre Pressure: same as Front
Rear Spring: 193
Rear Bump: 2 or 3
Rear Rebound: 3
Rear Camber: -0.25 to -0.75
Rear Bump Rubber: almost always minimum
Rear Ride Height: almost always minimum

Pressures and Camber should be set according to the tyre temps reading after a stint on the track. Try to equalize all temps across the thread. The only exception is on fast tracks, where higher pressures give more speed down the straight, due to less roll resistance.

As for drivetrain settings, set gears so you keep the car in maximum torque range in the middle of the corner. The differential is really a matter of personal preference, so you only need to understand what each of the settings of the diff does to set them accordingly, to experiment. I prefer more lock on power, less lock on coast, and 1 or 2 clutches at most. I usually start with 45/60/1 or 60/60/1-2, regardless of mod.

Some cars (like 67 BRM or 65 Honda) are an exception of this setup base, due to their different weight distribution, but most of the cars work fine with that.

69 are a bit different because of the wings, so they change more than no-wings cars from track to track.

Now, if you want to know what to tweak to fine tune the car by following some simple guidelines without actually understanding the parameters, there are plenty such online. I'm not a fan of those, as I said, because they're never quite correct for all situations or all cars. Here's one though:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbarnett/SetupMatrix.html
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dave curtis
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2013, 05:47:47 PM +0100 »

Hehe - well, looks like that's a good way to potentially kill off the thread Smiley
[as in looks like there's a degree of info in there!].

That's not to take anything away from the other contributers of course.

Personally,  I probably would not even notice the difference with minor/moderate tweaking.  I'd just put it down to the driver (me) having an off day.   But,  I appreciate that at the higher echelons of racing society, there is a need to know what you want to do & what you want the car to do for you. 

But thanks all for the advice. Maybe just maybe I'll pick something up.  Gotta start somewhere, right...?

Cheers,
Dave.

 
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Johnny.P
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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2013, 07:04:38 PM +0100 »

Seeing that I started this thread it seems right that I sign it off. I had a few more gems in my notepad for novices when your having that 'off' day. My notepad says:-  Raise the ride height- although this will scramble nearly every other parameter- your car will be much more tame and less twitchy.

Regards
John
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maddog
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2013, 07:35:13 PM +0100 »

I've been amazed at how many racers online, don't make their own setups.  For me, it's a part of the challenge, and put's me fully in control of my own destiny - good or bad. Tongue  Experimentation is needed, with simple stuff to try, so it's fun.  That was Evil's idea, and Hristo's generic setup above, makes a good starting point.  It's not really such scary stuff.  Grin
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EvilClive
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2013, 10:04:51 PM +0100 »

Well thank you Hristo for saving me some late night writing and editing  lol.   Undecided The articles that you have posted probably cover far more than I was trying to put together!!!  Roll Eyes  and I doubt whether my version would have been as good. LOL  Wink

I have just read the link   http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbarnett/SetupMatrix.html  and I recommend anyone wanting to play with setups reads it. It has been written to cover simracing in general and there are some obvious sections that DO NOT apply to GPL. However where it refers to parameters that do exist in GPL, it is probably exactly what I think you would want to know as a starting point.
Read it in conjunction with the 2 graphic pages that H posted ( http://www.jamesonline.net/images/gpl/suspension.jpg  &   http://www.jamesonline.net/images/gpl/drivetrain.jpg ) .

These guides do not tell you what you should do to create a setup that will knock 10 seconds off a World Record time, but highlight how adjusting a parameter should affect the way that the car behaves. Perhaps more importantly, it suggests which parameter is causing your current setup to do what you DO NOT WANT it to do and where to look to control it?

With any setup the biggest source of variables is with the nut holding the steering wheel. I'll leave you to work out how much you tighten that one .................... Wink

« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 12:40:34 PM +0100 by EvilClive » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2013, 12:41:13 AM +0100 »

Ooh - I suppose that I should probably point out that the Setup Comparator at www.gplsc.net/gplsc/  looks like a good way to compare a number of setups from different sources.

It's still all gibberish to me,  but even I have used this in the past.  Probably also handy if your custom naming has got rather cryptic/out of hand Smiley

Cheers,
Dave.
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Walter Conn
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« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2013, 01:13:35 AM +0100 »

My notepad says:-  Raise the ride height- although this will scramble nearly every other parameter- your car will be much more tame and less twitchy.
Good suggestion, keep them coming please. - WC

EDIT: Sorry that I posted this at a late hour. I forgot about the time difference.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 11:17:29 AM +0100 by Walter Conn » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2013, 01:09:01 PM +0100 »

Raising the ride height is something that I have actually done on several occasions when I am near the end of qually for a race and my attempts to create a setup have got to the point where only a 6 armed alien with a brain the size of a planet could possibly control the beast I have created.
Raising the ride height effectively softens everything and makes a twitchy setup less so. It is a trade off between ultimate response from the chassis and driveability ( is that a real word??).

As I have said before you will do quicker and more consistant lap times if you feel confidence in the car under you. So, if raising the ride height makes it more "user friendly" that is probably the way to go in the short term. Maybe returning to the original lower setting in some private development and adjusting things to make it work, because lower should = faster.

Bear in mind that some tracks will need a slightly higher ride height anyway to avoid bottoming out the suspension OR you will need to have much stiffer springs and bump rubbers to avoid some nasty moments.

A very good example is Brands 67.
This track is a great challenge with its altitude changes and sweeping curves, but many cars suffer at Dingle Dell or even at the entry to Hawthorn if you are really too soft.. If your setup is not right and you hit the depression just wrong at high speed, things go crazy very quickly!!!
The car will snap sideways uncontrollably usually resulting in a trip into the hedges or the start of a chain reaction of contacts should you be racing in close company. The frustrating thing about this is that it might not happen on every lap, or it is fine if you are running a light fuel load in qually. But 1st racing lap with a heavy tank of fuel and cold tyres catches you out big time.

Also if you set the front springs/dampers too low the car might bottom under braking which can also be spectacular  Wink.
So maybe next time you find that you are losing control suddenly, think about what the track is doing just there and try a few adjustments?

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« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2013, 04:33:59 PM +0000 »

Thank you Hristro for the suspension recommendations. So far so good. I did not see any advice for setting the front and rear ARB. I read in 4 wheel drift that a rule of thumb is to set the front ARB 10 pounds higher than the front spring rate (Imperial measurement). Then multiply the front ARB by 70% for the rear bar. Thanks, WC
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« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2013, 01:20:57 PM +0000 »

Crikey!! someone who still has a copy of the original manual that came with the GPL CD.   eek

There are some useful tips in there, although I think the GPL aliens have uncovered ways of maximising performance way beyond that which the original game developers envisaged.
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dave curtis
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« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2013, 04:28:11 PM +0000 »

Crikey!! someone who still has a copy of the original manual that came with the GPL CD.   eek

There are some useful tips in there, although I think the GPL aliens have uncovered ways of maximising performance way beyond that which the original game developers envisaged.

It's also available out there (along with the manual) for download in .pdf format.
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« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2013, 05:22:01 PM +0000 »

I can probably find them and stick them on UKGPL3.
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