UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Friday Trophy - Monza - Jan 17

[liveclive]

Hmmmm................There were a lot of "incidents" in both races which shuffled things a little more than perhaps was ideal.

Monza is notorious for Lap 1 incidents at Curve Grande and Parabolica and it does not seem to matter how many times drivers are urged to "be careful" , ambition overrides skill and track space and the result is a crash fest  

I was lucky with the F2's and slipped through the wreckage almost untouched to find myself on the back of the leading group. I was happy to sit there for a few laps and allow the group to stretch a gap back to the recovering pack. I knew that there were some of those very quick Matras behind and I was keen to have some safety margin.
On a track like Monza with evenly matched cars it is almost impossible to overtake and pull away unless the car you are racing actually makes a big mistake and you get a couple of seconds gap. So, I was amazed at the moves being made ahead of me between the 4 cars!!!! From where I was watching it was very entertaining but GEEEEZ was it risky at times. The inevitable happened, and 2 cars tangled big time leaving 3 cars in the group.
Still plenty of laps to go and although the Lola BMW was capable of pulling some high revs in the draft and keeping up with the FVA's it failed miseerably when faced with a wall of fresh air   So I sat in the slipstream and only made some practice moves to use on the last lap.
It was all looking perfect until the two cars in front touched and just when I thought.."I'm through and away in 1st place " a spinning car clipped me and I was dropped way down the field!! rats!!!!
I salvaged a half decent result by using the moves I had practiced during the race and picked up 2 places between Ascari and the finish line on the last lap.
Apologies to Dave Curtis for moving across on him mid race..my fault I had simply lost track of where you were.,,

I was half expecting that the 69x's would cause problems between the Heavies in their much grippier cars against the wingless wonders of the Lights which might be quick in a straight line but definitely presented a challenge under braking and cornering.
Once again there was a pile of scrap metal at various places and I was caught up in the first one and lost a wheel so had to reset. The rest of my short race was a series of being clipped by other cars as they span or bounced off each other until eventually I was nudged at Parabolica and snared in the hedge.

Big grats to Paul on FL in the 69x's and to the podiums in both races.

I think that the use of the unwinged cars in 69x might "balance" the Lights and Heavies, but drivers will need to be aware of the difference in the way the cars behave and leave room accordingly.

Just a heads up..but T1 at Lime Rock ( the next track) is like Parabolica    so be warned

[AndyL]

The F2 pile up out of CG lap1 was entirely my fault. It seems we all got through T1 together, I was happy with the cars close in front and behind me. Then I drifted to the left as I normally do, unaware that Nicky had been alongside me since the start straight. I am sorry to all that were caught up and I am suitably embarrassed.
For the rest of the race I had great fun at the back with Paul and then Walter, mostly trying desperately to hang on to their tow. It seems that my Cooper was a bit slower than the popular light choice the Lola.

In the 69's I took the 49 with a straight setup copied from the 67 Lotus, but it was about 2 seconds a lap slower. I had a slow start and took it easy into CG and saw a big pile up. I just about stopped, but cars were re spawning everywhere and it took a while to clear. I had an expedition through the sand at Parabolica at one point. The Lotus had good top speed, so I could pass on the straights, but woeful cornering requiring very early braking. I had an intense finish staying just ahead of Greg and suddenly a short powercut seconds after the line. So I went from breathless noisy intensity to immediate silence in a dark room.

It was a really fun evening driving cars I wouldn't normally use and I had 2 clean races after the L1 T1 incidents.

[clouds]

Guys I was not of the party and so I should not say a word but...did you think that often incidents are caused by races too much short and so every opportunity to overtake seems to be the last one each driver could have ?
I don't know if making just one lap entitles a driver to gain points like last season but if nothing has been changed this is another reason why incidents happen at 1st lap. I would like to see  the rule to minimum 70% of the race to gain points for the championship (if the race lenght is 18 laps this means that at least 16 laps have to be made to get points and then I think any race should be long enough to make this rule significant, that means races of at least 45-60 mins each one).
And last but not least, if we all don't learn to make a perfect 1st lap without incidents, we just have to make rolling starts (in the GPFUn championship we had rolling starts). I know this is not spectacular but, I dont like to quickly stop the race of some guys that think to get on the podium.
We are already very few drivers, if some should be annoyed by incidents during the 1st lap, we could easily loose some participants and the last races could be made by a very few guys.
The last chance could be to restart the race if 4 or 5 drivers are involved in an incident during the 1st lap.

I'm reading just now about warping at Curva Grande (T1R) and this is another reason we should pay maximum attention during the 1st lap.

[Cookie]

Just had a quick look at the replays and there was quite a bit of action!

Some interesting driving elsewhere but I am not going to point the finger as we all have different views. But one thing I will say, in my opinion we should be using loose grids in every race in every series.

Thanks again everyone for some top, if explosive at times, fun.

I installed the standard loose grid for Monza, but I am with you, it was not loose enough

This explosive driving is the result of the mixture of the car/driver combinations.
With an underdog car I have to drive way more aggressive, as I can not gain from technical advantage.

Passing Paul 69X into CG e.g. was just a normal pass for me, as practiced many times with other evenly matched drivers like Rob who just were able to drive a wide line. But Paul driving on the edge could not keep this line and span...

So should I make a difference in passing a heavy or light guy?

[EvilClive]

I think that if you make a pass against a slower car/driver and you give enough room, then you are quite entitled to make that move.

The only thing I would say to the Light drivers is:-  remember that the car you are about to pass may not be as completely under control as you are with your car, and there is a risk factor. You might find that you get involved in a costly incident as a result? Sometimes it is better to wait until the next straight and make an obvious and positive move that gives both cars plenty of space. Generally speaking, if a Light driver ( in a handicapped car) can get within striking distance of a Heavy driver ( in an unrestricted car) then I think the pass is inevitable. Maybe not instantly, but the pressure on the Heavy driver will usually force errors and I hope give a lesson in how to stay cool and learn racecraft for future events when being hassled from behind?

Personally I try to make passes against car/driver combinations that might get spooked by the sudden appearance of a car alongside under braking, by exercising a little patience and trying to do it where there is less chance of me being surprised by a suddenly spinning car on my nose.

Cloud's suggestion that we make the races longer to avoid the reckless first lap incidents does have some weight, but let us be honest here? Is it worth risking contact and a crash on the first lap? instead of being just a little cautious and losing maybe a couple of car lengths instead of half a lap?? personally I don't think it is worth it especially at somewhere like Monza.

This season we are implementing the 50% race distance rule to score points, so there is an incentive for drivers to survive.

 A wider spacing on the grid?  It might help, but at somewhere like Monza the difference in getaway from the start removes any gaps before CG. I picked up about 2 places in the F2's and 4 places in the 69x race and I did not have wings!! and I did not consider it a perfect start for me. I had too much wheelspin and had to back off a little to regain traction. That means that I ruined any nice spacing pattern for the cars around me. This was always going to be a problem with cars/drivers of differing abilities but I do not see what we can do about it except to hope that drivers try and be aware and be careful.

 BTW I find that once you hook up a fast start it is suicide to try and back off and hold your place, because the car behind might also have made a flyer and will not expect you to suddenly slow down, so you get a rude shove in the gearbox department. Although I made passes on the way to CG once into the braking zone I always try to brake smoothly and stay "in my lane" and I will follow the car in front either on the inside or outside all the way through the bend and down to Lesmo . Unless I am 100% sure that there is no-one alongside, and that I have enough speed to make a complete pass before Lesmo 1. By sure, I mean that I have been able to check pribluda, my mirrors, my memory of who was alongside as we approached CG and then even a quick look left or right to confirm. needless to say it is very rare that I can do all of this unless I am feeling pretty sure about a pass anyway. usually I am far too busy fighting cold tyres and heavy fuel tanks to worry about a pass!!

It would be good to have some feedback in these early races about the choice of cars available to each group. I am old enough to know that the cars will not please everyone  but I can only strike an "average" handicap without everything getting far too complicated.

[Cookie]

IMO your car choice is perfect!
Look at the quali times how close they are

Of course Monza is a track every GPL driver knows well and the differences will get bigger with less popular tracks.

As for T1 crashes, I sometimes wish we had a device implemented that gives a shunter some physical pain  
Maybe a more drastical punishment for "red zone" sinner could help, like a non qualifiying in next race...


For the next Friday I will increase the grid length from 7 to 12 meters per slot. GT and CA are way bigger than F1+2

The race length is ok, but for a double dash it should not be any longer!!!

[maddog]

Helpful comments Clive - Monza is a dangerous track, and that's part of the fun, as well as cause for carnage.  Despite the wreckage, almost everyone seems to have enjoyed it.  I has a potential podium spot in 69x, but my 5 wheels lacked continuous coordination, as the race unwound.  

Handicapping seems very promising for 69'ers.  I suspect the lights to shine brightly in Can-Am's, under current conditions.

Regarding Sergio's comments above - if we were to pursue racing as he suggests, the fun factor would be reduced.  Mature and sensible, yes, but racing has always been a sport for the young, or the young at heart.  Penalties are available, and beyond the red, allow drivers the choice of what is, and is not acceptable.  

[clouds]

A little off topic but...you could also think to implement the cover and open wheelers championships as well !

Every action against who make an incident is well accepted, I've nothing to say about this, my point of view is instead aimed to avoid (prevent) incidents at 1st lap not only by punish whom made the incident.

[Cookie]

A little off topic but...you could also think to implement the cover and open wheelers championships as well !

The idea of this series is to fit the best allround drivers,
as it was in reality these days when Clark, Hill, Steward, Rindt and co drove in Touringcars, F2, F1 and Sportcars in a season!

So should I make a difference in passing a heavy or light guy?

Of course I make a difference!

[Robert Fleurke]

Having watched server replays I like to apologize to Martin for rearending him in Para on Lap 1 in the 69X race. Even though on my screen there was a lot of warp from the start on, (especially Mark and Martin) there was no excuse taking so much risk braking late. Really sorry to you and the ppl that caught up in that incident, like Clive and others.

First race I was a victim myself twice, but want to say sorry to Doni for my kind of harsh comment, you didn't rejoin agressively, you just spun in front of me in Lesmo 2. No worries.

I must admit it's very hard to race cars with different performances and different drivers. There are huge differences in performance, braking points. corner speeds and straight line speeds. This caught me out too in 69X.

Hope for better luck in UKGPL from now on, and eliminating my own mistakes.

[maddog]

NP here Robert.  I managed to throw my car into Raoni's path, entering the Diabolica later, so equally guilty.  This Series was quite well behaved last Season, so perhaps a dangerous track played it's part in our downfall.  Online pre-race testing, might help educate those new to a mixed ability format - cars and drivers both!  Cookie is very good at providing a Server.

[Ronniepeterson]

Feedback for Clive. The cars definitely seemed to even out the playing field Although I suspect the choice of track and/or off track excursions helped. If anything I would go harsher on the Lights, if possible. To me a Light driver winning or more than two Light drivers regularly on the podium means they have it too easy. Race length is long enough for me and I would go shorter if anything as I think you have already added a few laps, I may be mistaken.

[Robert Fleurke]

Personally I always enjoy running slower chassis', and get the best out of it. Yesterday I was surprised I got still F2 pole with the Coop (1s tow), when I was targetting racing in midfield for both races. Should have taken the Antipasti Ferrari ofcourse! In the race it's hard to hold off the faster running cars in the Cooper, was just trying to survive, but couldn't avoid Greg and Doni.

Just wanted to race closely in the pack and have fun. If and when I will run on Friday, as sometimes I'm busy, I will continue to take slower chassis' whatever the rules might be. It was kind of fun being the lone 63 on the grid, even though it didn't last long.

The format to me is good, Clive, good restriction and length. No need to change anything AFIAC. As far the racing itself, simply said rather be safe than sorry. And I should read that line a few times as well...

Respect to the guys who ran the F2 Coopers and the 69X wingless cars like the 49 and T86B! That's the spirit! And finally congrats to Axel and Il Lupo for their respective wins, and to the rest of podiums.

[Mark Jones]

It was a shame the touch with Jones at the parabolica,we was in fight for the first position.

You mean down the start/finish straight?  Yes that was a shame- it seems to be a small bit of warp while we were side by side.  Sorry to Dave In the 69 race where there was a bit of warp into the parabolica while I was trying to dodge around you.

[BadBlood]

Passing Paul 69X into CG e.g. was just a normal pass for me, as practiced many times with other evenly matched drivers like Rob who just were able to drive a wide line. But Paul driving on the edge could not keep this line and span...

I hadn't expected the pass and tried to take a wide line to leave Cookie room but couldn't stop myself sliding into the armco. Just came down to lack of ability as Cookie says but you shouldn't treat us with kid gloves or we will never learn...

As for the fastest lap, I am fairly sure those wings didn't help at all...