***** IMPORTANT ****** Season 26 Mid Season Review

[maddog]

Thanks Robert, but you will also find a Mid-Season review for these matters, in Seasons 18,19,20,21,22,23,24 . . . and 25.   So there has been continuity until now.  I see nothing here to upset or annoy Moderation.  It is possible for this to happen either way, but we may improve our racing, or our understanding by discussion, and some look to this topic for that reason.   

[john roberts]

Thanks Robert, but you will also find a Mid-Season review for these matters, in Seasons 18,19,20,21,22,23,24 . . . and 25.   So there has been continuity until now.  I see nothing here to upset or annoy Moderation.  It is possible for this to happen either way, but we may improve our racing, or our understanding by discussion, and some look to this topic for that reason.   

you could have just asked for a mid season review thread rather than starting yours in the main gpl channel , usually the review threads are in "ukgpl announcements" , that is where i guess most people will expect to see it . your thread here i thought of it as more light hearted than a formal thread ...

i don't see this as the formal mid season review .

[BadBlood]

Apologies for the late creation of this - I have been somewhat busier than in previous seasons as my improved health means that I am now working full time. This makes the unofficial thread official. So, as is customary your chance to contribute (further).

As John has implied, in future, if you want a thread for the members to see, a PM asking for one would be the best way to do it as it can easily be missed in the open Grand Prix Legends forum. It also nudges me in to action as I had simply forgotten to do this, for which apologies, once again.

The comments above are noted.

I know it is late in the season but this is our Easter break...

As usual, we would like your views on a number of subjects.

Are we running the correct series?

• We are running two 67 series (non-negotiable), two 65 series, a 66 series, the Friday mixed series, an F2 series. Is that the way we would like to continue

Are mixed grids right? LIGHTS and HEAVIES together or would smaller split grids work better?

• Stick to one grid for the F2's and Historics?

Drivers Forum for in-season discussions

• You got it, but nobody has used it

Format for next season

• Any changes you would like to suggest.

Moderators

• Any one like to volunteer to help out? You won't find equal pay and conditions anywhere else!

Anything else you would like to raise.

[BadBlood]

The token system could be used as an all encompassing tool, to include handicapping, but could quickly become too complex to manage.  The chassis handicapping suggested worked well for 65's, but Moderation sadly chickened out when current leadership arrived.

No it could not be used as an all encompassing handicapping tool, The way that the token system works cannot distinguish between drivers so cannot be used as a handicap. The moderation team were happy with the handicap system but abandoned it as it was complex to administer during moderation, caused lots of arguments and in large part, did not achieve its objectives.

We are attempting to simplify the rules so that it is less confusing when drivers swap series and moderating is made easier.

The implication we 'chickened out' is simply wrong. If you desperately want handicapping re-introduced and can make it simple to administer this is your chance to show us how.

[Mark Jones]

Hi I'd like to make a suggestion.  Due to planetary issues I can only take part in the Friday series so I'll stick to that.  Firstly I'd like to thank all the organizers and moderators for their hard work.  Greatly appreciated.  Regarding the series, I think it's become a bit too frantically busy compared to previous years.  Two races every week for half a year is a bit of a grueling schedule.  Perhaps some more gaps should be put in.  

[maddog]

Thanks for providing the official playground, we have come to know and love.  It seems a bit empty without Hristo here. I don't wish to distract but :

I believe the token system could be used as an all encompassing tool.  You could require them thare dastardly front runners, to be awarded a fraction of the usual token tally per race.  BUT, as previously stated, once a pocket calculator became necessary to sort ones accumulated spoils, the plot might get spoilt.  I suspect such would also cause inaccuracy, for those who like to hover over the table . . . at the token tally.  Which would not be ideal, if my compass is correct?

Handicapping - as I recall, 65's were successfully handicapped by assigning each driver a chassis for  the Season, according to ability.  Once done, it was maintenance free all Season.  One or two adjustments for new guys, obviously faster - no race by race arithmetic - no despair over late penalty assessment?  No wavering.  What was required, was a firm hand, and a shrewd judgement.  Where these are lacking, this system adds to the load for Moderators, as some racers are not sympathetic ones. 'Chickened out,' was the crude way of saying, opted out after due consideration.

[Tom van Ostade]

Handicapping where someone judges the speed of someone else and gives him a slower car to achieve a given laptime is never going to work without flaws.

A token system removes the need for handicapping entirely in my opinion.

A combination of both handicapping and tokens is worse than going with just one of the two.

[garethhall]

not sure how tokens are a substitute for handicapping?

Anyway, get clive to let me drive a proper car  in 69x and stop being soooo evil! (it don't matter to me that much as I wont be singing up as a pro/light next season, as I am not even close to being such anymore and part of the reason for the lack of appearances) but its still a bit much of a handicap.

can we drop the f2 part of the Friday series, we have a proper series for it,  in favour of the can am66? it should be out by next season.

review the punishment for l1 t1 pileups, its gotta stop.

are we gunna test the pitstop patch?, is there any intention to introduce it, it may be cool.

all else is cool, thanks to mods/organisers.

[Cookie]

Token system and handicapping are two different pair of shoes!

Tokens are a great system to make a grid more diversified, but it also gives some advantage to the more experienced drivers

Handicapping is necessary for series with drivers of different skills driving together with a single championship table.

My way of handicapping would be to let the drivers do a self evaluation,
to make a fair car choice for the season in agreement with the organizers.

Mixing token system and handicapping would be interesting, but I think too complicated for the administration...

[Arf Arf Arf]

My thoughts on s26 are;

1. I fully support the 50% rule
2. I'm not entering 4 series next season, its too much (...and yet I don't want to stop any of them...)
3. I'd like some clarity on what's happening with the Brands F2 race. As it stands I think we're expected to all (A and B) rerun. However, as far as I understand it, there was only a problem with one replay/upload/set of results (no one has told me different), so I don't see why my group should have to rerun (if that is what's being proposed).

Cheers

Arf

[BadBlood]

I believe the token system could be used as an all encompassing tool.  You could require them thare dastardly front runners, to be awarded a fraction of the usual token tally per race.  BUT, as previously stated, once a pocket calculator became necessary to sort ones accumulated spoils, the plot might get spoilt.  I suspect such would also cause inaccuracy, for those who like to hover over the table . . . at the token tally.  Which would not be ideal, if my compass is correct?

Honestly, it really can't be used in that way as it is a 'one size fits all' system - everyone gets the same tokens regardless of ability. That is how the system works and there is nothing that can change that as the token system is applied to the series and not the drivers

Handicapping - as I recall, 65's were successfully handicapped by assigning each driver a chassis for  the Season, according to ability.  Once done, it was maintenance free all Season.  One or two adjustments for new guys, obviously faster - no race by race arithmetic - no despair over late penalty assessment?  No wavering.  What was required, was a firm hand, and a shrewd judgement.  Where these are lacking, this system adds to the load for Moderators, as some racers are not sympathetic ones. 'Chickened out,' was the crude way of saying, opted out after due consideration.

Problem with this was late and new registrations - we couldn't fairly assign chassis without being unfair and there was a huge amount of negative feedback <ahem>.

[BadBlood]

I'd like some clarity on what's happening with the Brands F2 race. As it stands I think we're expected to all (A and B) rerun. However, as far as I understand it, there was only a problem with one replay/upload/set of results (no one has told me different), so I don't see why my group should have to rerun (if that is what's being proposed).

Intention is to re-run at the end of the season on one grid. There was only an issue with one grid but we felt it fairer to everybody to re-run the whole round (which) implies both grids.

[Rainier]

We could combine tokens and handicaps in something like that :

before first race 20 tokens for everybody
then only 1 token for the first driver, 2 tokens for the 2nd ...10 tokens for the 10th and the followers.



And I am OK with the 50% of the distance needed to score.


  

[Arf Arf Arf]

I'd like some clarity on what's happening with the Brands F2 race. As it stands I think we're expected to all (A and B) rerun. However, as far as I understand it, there was only a problem with one replay/upload/set of results (no one has told me different), so I don't see why my group should have to rerun (if that is what's being proposed).

Intention is to re-run at the end of the season on one grid. There was only an issue with one grid but we felt it fairer to everybody to re-run the whole round (which) implies both grids.

I'm afraid I don't see how that is fair on the grid that had no problems. I don't get to rerun a race where I crash/get crashed into/lose the engine.....

[john roberts]

We could combine tokens and handicaps in something like that :

before first race 20 tokens for everybody
then only 1 token for the first driver, 2 tokens for the 2nd ...10 tokens for the 10th and the followers.

bonkers . using this system if the winner of the first raced used the lotus they would be forced to run the BRM in the 2nd race . i don't think this system would have many happy drivers .

as i have said before if you want to handicap drivers just tell them what cars they can drive .