maddog
|
|
« on: April 17, 2014, 11:02:32 PM +0100 » |
|
This header is repeated here so that people finding the thread will realise that the unofficial mid-season review has been merged with the official thread. Please PM one of the moderating team if there is a thread of general interest or you believe that a thread is 'missing'. Merging threads and keeping track of all the replies is fairly hard work. ******************************* I know it is late in the season but this is our Easter break... As usual, we would like your views on a number of subjects. Are we running the correct series? - We are running two 67 series (non-negotiable), two 65 series, a 66 series, the Friday mixed series, an F2 series. Is that the way we would like to continue
Are mixed grids right? LIGHTS and HEAVIES together or would smaller split grids work better? - Stick to one grid for the F2's and Historics?
Drivers Forum for in-season discussions - You got it, but nobody has used it
Format for next season - Any changes you would like to suggest.
Moderators - Any one like to volunteer to help out? You won't find equal pay and conditions anywhere else!
Anything else you would like to raise. *************************** Martin's original (unofficial) thread starter *************************** There was a time when a mid-Season review was willingly offered up, to allow the discussion of thoughts and ideas, of disgust and displeasures, and the means by which to improve our lot, or to prevent the depravity and corruption from getting any worse! Last time out, the proper page arrived very late, and again it's present absence is presently present? Are there voices to be heard - what fiendish plots have we subjects been subjected to, which require our attention, and naughty words? Has anyone been subjected to toxic mid-Season rule changes, for example, and are these helpful, by providing an unknown fun factor to our racing? Until an official thread is started, place your words here.
|
|
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 11:56:42 AM +0100 by BadBlood »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tom van Ostade
Full Member
Posts: 397
"anything can happen, and it usually does"
|
|
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2014, 01:12:05 PM +0100 » |
|
I have nothing to add except for two points. I vote for a qualification penalty on top of the penalties already given, and perhaps also a 'start from the pits' penalty if he or she has really screwed up, to prevent recurrences of accidents.
I also vote for the Graduates Works and Privateers Cup token system to be carried over to all the other series. We have seen with the Friday Cup how fun handicapping can be, but also how much discussion arises from moderators telling racing which car to choose. A token system will relieve a moderator from finding out which chassis works best for which handicap, and the racers will have nobody to blame but themselves for picking a particular car. Here is a proposed token system for the 1967 F2's:
Matra MS7 FVA : 13 tokens Matra MS5 FVA : 12 tokens Brabham BT23 FVA : 12 tokens Lola T100 FVA : 12 tokens Lotus 48 FVA : 12 tokens Lotus 41B FVA: 11 tokens McLaren M4A FVA : 11 tokens Protos 16 FVA : 10 tokens Lola T100 BMW : 10 tokens Cooper T84 FVA : 8 tokens Ferrari 166 : 5 tokens Brabham BT14 LF : 0 tokens
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
EvilClive
UKGPL Senior Consultant
UKGPL Moderators
Hero Member
Posts: 7751
I always play by the rules.... they are MY rules!
|
|
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2014, 07:11:21 PM +0100 » |
|
We did try a variation on the tokens idea for the Friday Series a few seasons ago, but from memory the lights had 20% less tokens than the Heavies...just to balance things up.
It just gets a little complicated to keep track of the token use across 4 different car sets....at least I found it hard work. But, if there is a general agreement that this is the way to go I'm sure that it could be done.
|
|
|
Logged
|
Evil Waza, now a completely reformed character! **NOW AVAILABLE ON TWITCH @ evilclive67 Rank Only when I sweat
|
|
|
john roberts
Former UKGPL Moderators
Full Member
Posts: 908
|
|
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2014, 11:41:15 PM +0100 » |
|
We did try a variation on the tokens idea for the Friday Series a few seasons ago, but from memory the lights had 20% less tokens than the Heavies...just to balance things up.
It just gets a little complicated to keep track of the token use across 4 different car sets....at least I found it hard work. But, if there is a general agreement that this is the way to go I'm sure that it could be done. the point of the token system is everybody gets the same amount , if you are going to give people different amounts they can spend then you should be handicapping them another way . if everybody gets the same amount it's a very simple system with very little work to do .
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tom van Ostade
Full Member
Posts: 397
"anything can happen, and it usually does"
|
|
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2014, 12:00:39 AM +0100 » |
|
I agree. Have faith in the system Clive, it works really well . For the F2 token system I cobbled up, the 'joker car' is the Cooper. It is fast enough on some tracks that you don't sacrifice too much, and it allows you to run your favorite car in most other races, when you add the start-of-season 10 bonus tokens, except for the MS7, which is the fastest car (and should be since it was freshly developed for the new rules). The differences between the cars are a lot smaller than with the 1967 F1's so the token table reflects that. If it is too hard work to use you can simplify the system further by giving more cars 10 tokens. The system is a lot of fun, easy to use and transparent.
|
|
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 12:03:09 AM +0100 by Tom van Ostade »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
maddog
|
|
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2014, 01:27:04 PM +0100 » |
|
Tokens allow drivers to choose between options, and vary the mix of competition at each race. They also allow all the different cars to be realistically raced, which adds variety and colour. It's a tried and tested system which could work well, wherever raw speed, is not hugely different across the grid. If tokens are properly assigned, disputes over handicapping, and prompt per race designation might not be needed. Where speed difference is great, a 2 tier token type system could titillate . . . whoops, sorry! In this case, Moderation would have to get tough, and decide who amongst us, are the more serious contenders, within a single championship. Or else, simply reduce by half or, the tokens available to the top 3, or? The individual Series would tend to dictate the detokenization situation. And once tuned it would all in theory, be fault free.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
john roberts
Former UKGPL Moderators
Full Member
Posts: 908
|
|
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2014, 02:47:18 PM +0100 » |
|
If tokens are properly assigned, disputes over handicapping, and prompt per race designation might not be needed. Where speed difference is great, a 2 tier token type system could titillate . . . whoops, sorry! In this case, Moderation would have to get tough, and decide who amongst us, are the more serious contenders, within a single championship. Or else, simply reduce by half or, the tokens available to the top 3, or? The individual Series would tend to dictate the detokenization situation. And once tuned it would all in theory, be fault free. the token system is not a handicapping system and wasn’t designed to be one , with the token system everybody has the same potential amount of tokens . i also believe that it also encourages drivers to turn up to as many races as they can , because they are given tokens only by starting races . if you want to handicap drivers don't bother with tokens just tell then what cars they are allowed to drive , be it using historical data or their place in the championship .
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
maddog
|
|
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2014, 03:09:28 PM +0100 » |
|
The token system could be used as an all encompassing tool, to include handicapping, but could quickly become too complex to manage. The chassis handicapping suggested worked well for 65's, but Moderation sadly chickened out when current leadership arrived.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tom van Ostade
Full Member
Posts: 397
"anything can happen, and it usually does"
|
|
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2014, 05:02:14 PM +0100 » |
|
The token system increases the spread throughout the field, so you are always racing someone, which removes the need for handicapping entirely.
I've had another thought, and with the bonus 10 tokens for the first race, the F2 system might not be spread out enough, as you will be able to get to the fifth race handicap free. Increasing the distance to the 10 token spot solves that, and looks like this:
Matra MS7 FVA : 16 tokens Matra MS5 FVA : 14 tokens Brabham BT23 FVA : 14 tokens Lola T100 FVA : 14 tokens Lotus 48 FVA : 14 tokens Lotus 41B FVA: 12 tokens McLaren M4A FVA : 12 tokens Protos 16 FVA : 10 tokens Lola T100 BMW : 10 tokens Cooper T84 FVA : 6 tokens Ferrari 166 : 3 tokens Brabham BT14 LF : 0 tokens
For F2's the token system might be even easier to implement as there are two grids just like with the Graduates Cup so the field should consist of more drivers with roughly the same abilities. But really it doesn't matter as the system will spread the field anyway.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
john roberts
Former UKGPL Moderators
Full Member
Posts: 908
|
|
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 04:35:32 AM +0100 » |
|
in the 67 token model .. the tokens they get for starting a season allows them to take the top car in the ranking (the lotus) for the first race .
john
|
|
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 04:47:42 AM +0100 by john roberts »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
john roberts
Former UKGPL Moderators
Full Member
Posts: 908
|
|
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 04:39:24 AM +0100 » |
|
so you could say start with 10 tokens to start the season ... but then only get given say 6 tokens for each race start ....
when you think about this it could get fun !
john
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tom van Ostade
Full Member
Posts: 397
"anything can happen, and it usually does"
|
|
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 05:16:55 PM +0100 » |
|
Haha I've tried to replicate that with the above token system, you can only pick the MS7 in the first race, when you get 10 bonus tokens. You'll get 10 tokens for participation in an event, so you can always take the Protos or BMW. But you can also harshen the system and add 4 more tokens for each car . To keep it simple it's best to keep the tokens awarded the same, and play with token spending a bit, rather than the other way round.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Iestyn Davies
Full Member
Posts: 303
Variety comes in packs of 7 GPL cars! Drive 5/day!
|
|
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2014, 12:47:41 AM +0100 » |
|
Nice words Maddog.. my only thought is this: would it be simpler with a 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 token situation and 10 starting, 5 to follow etc.? I don't know the strengths of the cars as much, but just aimed to simplify it slightly. In the words of Colin Chapman..
In that situation, most cars would be 6 or 8 and the MS7 10. Sounds like the Protos or BMW are Brabham like "any time" cars, so maybe should be 5. But regardless - good working out Tommie!
|
|
|
Logged
|
GPLrank = -75 Monster = -400 See ya online
|
|
|
maddog
|
|
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 02:01:54 PM +0100 » |
|
The best way to start a new racing format, is to look at past races, as they will give a good idea as-to what will work best. Theory does not always meet with reality. As this currently remains the spot to discuss our thoughts and ideas, about the racing here, I've one topic to add. I seem to remember, at the last Mid-Season review, the 50% RACE DISTANCE to score points idea, was raised by one guy, seconded by one Moderator, and suddenly announced as a done deal when we started this Season! Is this good? Is this working? Are there fewer accidents because we are driving more carefully? Are victims more annoyed because points are now robbed?
|
|
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 06:12:20 PM +0100 by maddog »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Robert Fleurke
Former UKGPL Moderators
Sr. Member
Posts: 1701
GPL Forever!
|
|
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 08:40:51 PM +0100 » |
|
There was a time when a mid-Season review was willingly offered up, to allow the discussion of thoughts and ideas, of disgust and displeasures, and the means by which to improve our lot, or to prevent the depravity and corruption from getting any worse! Last time out, the proper page arrived very late, and again it's present absence is presently present? Are there voices to be heard - what fiendish plots have we subjects been subjected to, which require our attention, and naughty words? Has anyone been subjected to toxic mid-Season rule changes, for example, and are these helpful, by providing an unknown fun factor to our racing? Until an official thread is started, place your words here. There is a Season 26 driver feedback topic, found here.
|
|
|
Logged
|
Driving for Antipasti Racing
|
|
|
|