UKGPL Season 44 (Spring 2024) 1967 F2 (Amateurs) - Suzuka - Mar 12

[Pete Bennett]

SEASON 44  -  1967 F2    AMATEURS         Round 5  -  Suzuka 2000

Soichiro Honda decided to develop a new permanent circuit in the late 1950s. Designed as a Honda test track in 1962 by Dutchman John "Hans" Hugenholtz, the most iconic feature of the track is its "figure eight" layout, with the 1.2 km (0.75 mi) long back straight passing over the front section by means of an overpass. It is one of only two FIA Grade 1 licensed tracks to have a "figure eight" layout, the other one being the Fiorano Circuit.

Date	=	Tuesday 12 March 2024
Race list	=	igor
Server	=	UKGPL_11
IP Address	=	see igor
Password	=	see above
Damage Model	=	INT
GPL Mod	=	1967 F2
60fps Patch	=	60fpsV2newmod
Track download	=	FASTLANE
Track directory	=	suzu00
Qualifying Starts	=	20:45 UK Time  -  45min
Race Starts	=	21:30 UK time
Race Length	=	19 laps
Replay	=	Folder here
Championship	=	Table here

Please restrict your chat until all drivers are off the track during both practice AND the race, thank you. Only reported incidents will be moderated.

INT damage model for this series so Shift-R is available. Please take extra care when re-joining the track.

[roguk]

Hi getting lots of invalid lap times Training (xxx) here wonder why or where on track going wrong, do not want to get disqualified when race, any ideas.

[Rainier]

Hi getting lots of invalid lap times Training (xxx) here wonder why or where on track going wrong, do not want to get disqualified when race, any ideas.

Same for me.
Maybe when we cut the chicane before the finish line ?
I went several times on sand, too ...

[Cookie]

Yes, maybe the checkpoints, keep 2 wheels on tarmac...

[ configuration_0 ]
  ; Format: dlong, start dlat, end dlat, time penalty (sec), 0 (required)
  ; 3 checkpoint minimum
checkpoint_0 = 2177.0  -5.0  6.0  25.0 0      ; prevents cutting
checkpoint_1 = 5219.0  -5.0  6.0  5.0 0      ; prevents cutting
checkpoint_2 = 5246.0  -45.0  -25.0  5.0 0      ; prevents cutting

Same here with pit board, move it!

pit_board = 8.0 450.0 -100.0 100.0      ; dlat of board, dlong of board, dlong LOS start, dlong LOS end (last 2 not used)

[Rainier]

Yes, one of the checkpoint is the chicane just before the pits. (the IA's are not able to pass it  )

If we cut it (with 4 wheels out ?), we have to stop and wait in the pits during several seconds.

where are the 2 other checkpoints ?     

[EvilClive]

I am not at my race PC at the moment. Can someone check if the checkpoint is activated with just 2 wheels off track or does it require 4 wheels to leave the tarmac. Or, do we need to totally disable checkpoints on this circuit and rely on the moderators/reports to punish persistant track cuts?

I think it is important that all drivers know what rules will apply for this race as some may not be aware of the requirement to stop in the pits to serve penalty?

[Pete Bennett]

I think it is important that all drivers know what rules will apply for this race as some may not be aware of the requirement to stop in the pits to serve penalty?

Is this a penalty which GPL automatically awards in-race via the flags or pitboard? If the latter, what if drivers haved turned the pit-boars off?

As moderator for this series, I would like to keep things simple and retain the "two wheels on the track" rule esp. at the chicane. I will have to rely upon drivers' honesty and observations in order to check for repeat offenders. Inevitably, each one of us will wander off course at that spot at some point in the race so I'll be reasonable. Repeat offenders, however, will be prosecuted.

[Cookie]

Pete, as hoster you can switch the checkpoints off in iGOR...

I do not understand that those trackmakers do not set a pole in such places, so you can clearly see the limit
I am pretty happy for such poles or tires set in the corner as a fix landmark to go!

ATM I am with Marcos in friendly PM contact talking about his ways of limitation...
"Yes, the banks of Bulawayo are terrible... I tried to prevent people to run over the "grass", but maybe I was too harsh... "

[dave curtis]

I'm not answering Cookie,  just adding a non-official reply 

Pete, as hoster you can switch the checkpoints off in iGOR...

I'm sure that UKGPL gererally disable the checkpoints in servers (you can see the setting in iGOR).

However, I suggest that the UKGPL moderator/manangement team reserve the right to revisit this if required.
In the meantime, the court system still exists if any participants feel the need to report repeated/intentional corner cutting.

"Yes, the banks of Bulawayo are terrible... I tried to prevent people to run over the "grass", but maybe I was too harsh... "

I found it was easier to treat the track edges of Bulawayo similar to the while lines at Buenos Aires/BA55N2  - as kerbs. Admittedly particularly agressive kerbs!  (however, it did take me a few events at BA55N2 to realise they were not just painted lines...)

[Pepe Higdon]

We already allow unlimited, unpenalized SHFT-Rs in this league and now we're not going to enforce track limits at three places here? Say it's not so . . .

[dave curtis]

<SNIP>
Yes, one of the checkpoint is the chicane just before the pits. (the IA's are not able to pass it  )
<SNIP>

There are a couple of updates for this track HERE.  One of them is AI related, so may be worth obtainig in case this fixes the issue.

We already allow unlimited, unpenalized SHFT-Rs in this league and now we're not going to enforce track limits at three places here? Say it's not so . . .

I'm not a moderator/this is not an official reply, but the server/checkpoints setting is nothing new / hasn't changed.

Additionally,  the moderator has stated:

As moderator for this series, I would like to keep things simple and retain the "two wheels on the track" rule esp. at the chicane.

I will have to rely upon drivers' honesty and observations in order to check for repeat offenders.

<SNIP>
Repeat offenders, however, will be prosecuted.

Some of the other posts (including mine) do indiacate that it seems fairly easy to fall foul of the track limits, even if everything seems ok from the cockpit view.
Stuffing the corner is one thing, but blatent/consistent track cutting is another matter & should be investigated.

I've looked briefly at recent server replays & there are a lot of 64/offtrack laps, even from Pro/Works drivers. I have not examined where/why.

Maybe as part of personal testing, drivers should be encouraged to analyse their own replays either with GPL offline or with GPLRA (as some drivers are already clearly doing & commenting on) & adapt general driving if they see consistent track limit advisories.

Admittedly the rest of the track also has offtrack areas!

We all want a fair event.


As Cookie mentions, a well-placed pole would help in that area!

[roguk]

Hi Dave Curtis said here are a couple of updates for this track HERE.  One of them is AI related, so may be worth obtaining in case this fixes the issue.
 Downloaded the suzu00_Dbupdt .rar not the AI one, installed it did 10 laps and got  NO  invalid lap times Training (xxx), although the .rar just looked like graphic improvements.

[Phil Thornton]

We already allow unlimited, unpenalized SHFT-Rs in this league and now we're not going to enforce track limits at three places here? Say it's not so . . .

I'm not a moderator/this is not an official reply, but the server/checkpoints setting is nothing new / hasn't changed.

That's right, nothing has changed. The rules are the same regardless of the track. However, where there is confusion the track boundary (i.e. track limits) need to be clarified in the race post (as recommended here).

I don't think there is any confusion here, "In general the boundary of a track is defined by white lines, this means if the kerbs are outside the white lines they are outside the track boundary". So drivers can ride the kerbs at the chicane but they must always have 2 wheels on or inside the white lines. Now whether GPL will log that as an off-track lap is another point. We don't have any control over how GPL logs off-track laps, nor do we have any control over where track builders put their checkpoints.

Personally I don't think agressively riding the kerbs is the fastest line. A gentle touch is fine but bumping over them unsettles the car too much IMO. Obviously missing out the chicane altogether is definately corner cutting and is not allowed.

We have always hosted races with checkpoints disabled (see here) because network latencies can give false black flags. However, we are going to do some tests at some point to see if this is still a problem with modern broadband connections.

[EvilClive]

I am in full agreement with Phil's points.

The rules have not changed as far as UKGPL is concerned, the question about Suzuka 2000 is all around the "checkpoints" within the track software and how the code interprets 2 wheels "off track". Provided that 2 wheels stay on or inside the white line UKGPL does not consider that "a cut corner", regardless of how GPLRA/GPL records the incident. Unfortunately this requires that moderators have to review replays and reports to find transgressors and they cannot simply look at the "stats" to determine guilt, but it might provide a clue to persistent offending.

It is good that members have highlighted what they have discovered within Suzuka, but it should not change the etiquette that is expected here or anywhere else.

Certainly in these F2 cars, hitting the kerbs hard or getting 4 wheels across the grass is definitely NOT the fastest line. In fact, I find in practice around here that even getting 2 wheels onto the kerbs allows the diff to spin up one of the wheels and drive is lost just when you want to power out of the corner, and I have to wait until the car fully regains the track.

[Cookie]

Just a question to the trackmakers: Would it be possible to set some concrete cones or hay bales on this track change the name and let run it?

IMO the key point here is the chicane where you can hardly see the limits, but if you cut it you make easy an 1-2 sec advantage