UKGPL Season 15 - Watkins Glen (GP) - Jul 2

[Jack O'Ferrall]

UKGPL Season 15 - Fun race - 65 mod - Watkins Glen

This is a test race for the proposed beginners division.  Though this event is on a Wednesday night, this is on a once-only basis and for the rest of Season 15 the Fun races will be on Tuesdays.  The current Season 16 proposal is for the 65 mod league races to alternate with the 66 mod races on Tuesday nights, should a schedule be published the race nights will not then be altered.  If you have problems installing the 65 mod, just post on the thread. If you haven't used the 65 cars before, be aware that though they're far easier to drive they have no proper default setups of their own- you'll have to download one, or alter the gearing.  There are default setups available if you need one, just use the link below.     

Pre-Season Test - Season 15 Wednesday July 2 at 9:00 p.m. London UK time (BST).

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:55 p.m.
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and Race passwords: see above

Server 3.ukgpl
IP address  87.194.135.42

Race date = 02-07-2008
Track = Watkins Glen 1967 Int
Variant = 65mod
Damage Model = Intermediate
Qually time = 20 minutes.
Race length = Short (17 laps)


Password: see above
(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page

[Jack O'Ferrall]

The 1965 season was the last to use the controversial 1500cc formula which had begun after 1960, to the initial advantage of Ferrari.  The 1965 cars are smaller than the 1967 cars and have less torque and hence more grip.  It was claimed that they 'cornered on rails', however this allowed the Grand Prix series to retain the use of circuits which were otherwise to prove extremely dangerous.

The 1965 cars are ideal for those new to GPL as they allow the tracks to be learnt in light reliable cars, however these are also full Formula One cars, and quite fast....

David Wright's 'Legends' site http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/ has the download of the most recent 2.0.1 version (under 'details') as well as being an exceptional guide to both 1965 and 1967, for those interested in Formula One history.

Unfortunately the current 65 mod download does not have default setups.  Default setups for all the cars and tracks that are likely to be used can be downloaded from http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver under '65 setups'.  Note that you will have to add enough fuel for the race, whether short or long!

[b_1_rd]

That was a good fun couple of races tonight.  Enjoyed them, and good learning points from them too, which is what it's all about.

Race 1 was good up until the last lap when my Screen Saver decided to cut in! I thought I'd turned it off but apparently not! Hang over from when I did a reinstall.

Race 2 was awesome until I lost the rear going in to the final turn pushing a bit too hard, allowing the fast guys to catch up again who had elected to carry extra fuel and take the slower(ish) cars to make it a bit more even.  Then....  I'm so sorry to Rob and Steve for taking them out at 'the big bend'.  The rear end let go too far for me to keep hold and I shot across the track in front just as it gripped again and I T-boned Steve's Honda cutting the poor thing in half, also collecting Rob who ended up shiney side down.  3 shift R's quickly took place and we were away again for the last few remaining laps.

Certainly for me, while still on a steep learning curve, it helps when people post up a rough idea of what setup they used so for anyone intrested, the one  I used was straight from the link to the defaults in the post above except I changed the camber to try and achieve even tyre temps across the tyre.  It was nice and stable (except when I did things wrong). My best lap was a 1:11.236 with that, probably loads more time in it with better driving.

Thanks again guys.

[flyingkiwi69]

Sweet race for me!!!  I finally seem to have got over the initial learning curve and am now able to get round the tracks more often than not...still managed to come off three times or so during the race but settled down and managed to actually improve my times over the course of the race!!!  Sweeeet!!!!

It was great when I started getting lapped and was amongst some traffic (for a very short time) and could follow the lead cars lines and braking points, I think that was when I posted my best lap time

So now it's just a matter of building on my technique and improving my times...who knows might be competitive in 6 months or so

Cheers guys for the opportunity to race and see you all out there again soon!

Jon

[Jack O'Ferrall]

Well done on the pole Steve, that was quite fast- and not all the other drivers were in BT7s with extra fuel....  Having different cambers can make the cars harder to drive when they're off the racing line, however it is faster.  Watkins Glen is more like an oval than most tracks though, so there might not be as much advantage on others.  The defaults are fairly soft, you could test whether you preferred to firm up the wheel rates or roll bars.

Jon, the Cooper is one of the slower cars even if the handling is good- have you tried the faster 65s?

Having to change to Wednesday may have cost us numbers slightly, but we'll need at least half-a-dozen new drivers to have a full league season of 65s with my existing proposals, though that wouldn't prevent there being occasional fun races like these ones.  The next one will be Silverstone, after that perhaps East London rather than Oulton, any preference? 

[b_1_rd]

I went back to the default and kept winding on roll bar and wheel rate by 10 and eventually got a 1:10:821. I didn't change the camber this time.  The car felt more controllable in drift but what else does stiffening the car do?  Like I say, I'm still learning and want to get a better knowledge of setups and what effects what.

Hopefully it will help other 'newbies' too.

Cheers

[EvilClive]

Lol !! 
If only I knew what it all did, maybe I could get a car that went where I wanted it to go.
Seriously though, it seems to me that altering one parameter will change a characteristic but altering a second parameter may negate that change, or magnify the change.
In other words there are different ways of arriving at the same result, just to confuse the issue.

There are some simple setup crib sheets which are available, perhaps someone knows where they can be downloaded? which tell you what each parameter will affect.
For what its worth, I have found that as your experience grows and ability improves ( which it will), the setup you can drive will also change allowing you to brake later and corner faster.
Ultimately the setup you want at any time is the one you have absolute confidence in, such that you know what the car will do when you turn in or apply the gas. This setup may be different to anyone else's..or the same as the world record holder....but it is the one that allows you to concentrate on racing, not struggling to keep the car on the grey stuff.

Just my take on things...but others may have a different view.

[Clive Loynes]

As I understand the 65mod “Setup Scene”, they are not so setup critical as the 67s.  I am reliably informed that, for any given car, once you have sorted a setup for one track it will not be a million miles from what you want for any other.  Where they do need to be bang on the money is in the gearbox.  If you don't get the ratios right you can't keep the little beggars pulling you out of the corners.  I think this is true of the smaller 66mod cars as well.

I have a monster pack of setups by GURU that I use for 65mod.  You are welcome to it and I will post it on the RSC-BREASTS forum if you want it and can't find it for yourself on RSC.

On Wednesday I turned on the pc, expecting to do a spot of 66mod Oulton practice for Thursday, when I spotted your server.  Seeing that there were not so many in there and knowing that you were primarily trying to give the newcomers some track time/experience I thought that I would join at the back and give as many of you some "company" as I could.    I mean, what's racing without a bit of PRESSURE!!!!?

By the time I joined, in a random Brabham that I had a setup for, there was only time for one sighting lap before the race started.  There were eight seconds to go when Evil told me that he was running with 32 laps of fuel and I decided that I didn't have time to change anything and that starting from the back I was never going to see the front anyway.  I was right, but had some good fun trying to pass what was probably a BRM, but don't quote me.

For the second race I went for the BT7 and 30-odd laps of fuel for qually and the race.  The thing sounds like a Hoover that has got stuck on the curtains and is about as gutless as they come.  Evil, Burt and I found ourselves in a good battle.  I could catch Evil but couldn't get past.  This let Rob catch us and then going into the Loop, I had Evil under my feet and Burt trying to lever his way past my right ear.  I had tried several attempts on Evil down the inside of the Loop but the outside was new territory and I gave Rob too much room and had a run around the fence.  Bloody thing wouldn't turn right after that so I had to do a ShiftR for a new Hoover.

Good fun though.

[b_1_rd]

There's two really useful cheat sheets in with the 65 default setups from the link above.

I think the stiffer the car the better the power transfer to the tarmac, however it will let go quicker requiring quicker correction.  I just want to check my understanding is right and I'm not barking up the wrong tree.

[karlisss]

i were not be able to race.....
cause my wheel or drivers had problems..
next time.
BTW what track it will be?

[Jack O'Ferrall]

The next track will be Silverstone, and it'll be on Tuesday again, July 15th.

The wheel rate settings on the defaults are approximate to those that were used in 1965.  Roll bar settings were more individual and while there is some advice to keep the rear about 2/3 or less than the front, this wasn't the practice in 1965.  There's no front toe-out on the defaults either- it wouldn't have been used in 1965.  

Firming up the wheel rates should make the car more stable and faster, on a smooth track.  Or to get a more stable car you could add toe-out on the front- toe increases stability at the expense of speed.  As Clive explained, one parameter is related to another and once you can lap consistently you've got the ability to discover how alterations affect your personal style.  The Glen might not be the best track to make a base setup- though the best test track is the Ring...  

However, the 65 drivers couldn't afford to go off the track at all- if you clip the kerb, or go over a bump or just put the car in the wrong position, a softer more grippy car might not punish you.  The defaults are only fairly soft compared to the more usual GPL rates.  'Hotlapping' wasn't a motor sport....

[EvilClive]

The wise Mr Loynes comment about one setup fits all circuits does seem true. I copy my setup for the Brab BT11 ( my car of choice ONLY because I have a setup that suits me) from track to track and then adjust the gear ratios to suit.  I am trying to use other chassis where the opportunity arises and use the performance of my BT11 setup as a benchmark.
Unfortunately, the 67's require a little more finesse to get the best performance and generally speaking, simply copying the setup does not work.
But I believe that it is more important to have a setup that is stable and predictable, rather than one that you might just keep on the tarmac long enough to claim pole position by half a second.

[bernie]

rather than one that you might just keep on the tarmac long enough to claim pole position by half a second.

I should be so lucky 

[b_1_rd]

rather than one that you might just keep on the tarmac long enough to claim pole position by half a second.

I should be so lucky 

Says the man leading the Clubmans Championship! 

[Bully]

HI Guys,
            Sorry for the massive delay, I've bin sucked right into iRacing 

Replay and stuff is @ http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver in the pre season warm ups section.

Bully.