UKGPL Season 16 (2008) - Spa (1967) - 65 mod - Aug 12

[b_1_rd]

Just to clarify something here...

The upshift without letting off the gas.

I did employ this method for many of the upshifts at Spa and Monza that followed, without causing any apparent damage to the engine.  I do however, not use speed shifts for half a lap (or in the case of Spa, 1/4 lap) or so.  I don't know if that 'beds' the engine in better to accept a speed shift, allowing the temperature to come up a bit from cold.

I am no expert in the physics of gear changing just wanted to point it out for those, like me, who are trying to get within some sort of semi-competative time.

Basically what I'm trying to say is do whatever suites you! It seems to work for me but not others.

Whatever you do, make sure it's fun 

[Jack O'Ferrall]

Thanks everyone for a great night.  I was pleased that no-one disconnected and everyone came home on the same lap!  We had all the chassis being raced and I've got some suggestions for teams, I'll contact anyone who I'd like to try another car.

Since we haven't raced Mexico yet, we'll go there next.  If anyone starts to get frustrated with T1, just ask for advice! 

While we could split into 65s veterans and 65s beginners, unless we get full grids it seems better to start together.  To produce more than a dozen drivers racing regularly seems to take twice that many registrations.  When registration begins I'll ask drivers to indicate whether this will be their first full online season and we'll keep separate track of the beginners competition.

What you might have done karlisss, is to start with the right setup but not to have changed the setup loaded in the 'race' slot from the default?  

Whenever you redline the engine it risks damage, this is minimised with the mods but even at int level you can't race like that with the 67s.  Also, UKGPL league rules penalise resets for destroyed engines.  If you practice offline at Grand Prix level you'll get into the habit of protecting your engine, though you might want to use an easier level to learn a new track!  

Some of the new drivers have been asking for a 67s practice, we can run a couple of int shorts on Sunday, post on this thread if you're interested: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5096.0

[b_1_rd]

Any 67 practice would be good.  Althought this Sunday I'm at the real Castle Coombe for some bike racing, so may be touch and go if I could make it.

[EvilClive]

I'll be thinking of you in the rain   whilst I walk my dogs just down the road on the Eastern edge of Bristol.

[Clive Loynes]

Just to clarify something here...

The upshift without letting off the gas.

I did employ this method for many of the upshifts at Spa and Monza that followed, without causing any apparent damage to the engine.  I do however, not use speed shifts for half a lap (or in the case of Spa, 1/4 lap) or so.  I don't know if that 'beds' the engine in better to accept a speed shift, allowing the temperature to come up a bit from cold.

I am no expert in the physics of gear changing just wanted to point it out for those, like me, who are trying to get within some sort of semi-competative time.

Basically what I'm trying to say is do whatever suites you! It seems to work for me but not others.

Whatever you do, make sure it's fun 

Not a good habit to get into Steve.  Took all of the Soggies efforts, including Hristo, over two seasons to finally badger Burt into changing gear properly.

I believe that engines are more fragile when cold at the start but even if you delay being brutal they will still break if you don't lift when changing up.  Not every time; just when you really, really don't want it to.

[EvilClive]

I have to agree with Clive,

We all ( well most of us anyway)  speedshift occasionally just through bad hand /foot/eye co-ordination and sheer involvment in the racing and over-rev the engine and get away with it. I find that it is most likely when downshifting for corners rather than up shifting along a straight, but either way it is just "not good"!!! 
You will certainly get away with it for a while and may even gain an advantage in some races. But, I promise you, that when you start doing longer races where you may be duelling with the same guy for 10-15 laps or more, you will be devastated when the whirry thing behind you goes "pop" and he disappears into the distance!!!! (...plus you will need to perform a stop and go in the pits ( in 67's anyway, losing you another 15-20 secs).

The 65's and 66's do seem a little more forgiving in terms of engine management and you might get lulled into a false sense of security and bad habits which will bite you in the a** when you move into 67's. Even the aliens will monitor their oil temp during a race ( about the only indicator we have of engine abuse) and back off for a lap just to avoid blowing up and losing a huge amount of time.

With practice you will find that the actual difference between speedshifting and "proper" gearchanging is actually minimal. If you lose a tenth of a second per change ( which is unlikely) , it is nowhere near what you will lose if you blow the engine and have to make a call into the pits!!

My advice would be to avoid the habit of speedshifting otherwise you will become Burt Mk2 and be referred for counselling and corrective therapy at the GPL home for the heavy right footed.

[happyal]

I've been changing my gears this way since I started, so I think I need to get out o fthe habit. What is the correct way, just to lift slightly when you change gears?

I tried Mexico last night for the first time, Jack since no-one else has asked for help can you please provide me with some, I need all the help I can get at the moment.

I had such a good time at the Spa race, I'm glad I took part, also I think I learnt a lot too.

[Clive Loynes]

When you change up correctly the rev counter needle just drops from one value to another, without any wild threshing about like s fly fisherman's rod.

It's timing of the feet and the fingers and the more I think about it the more I bugger it up.  I think that I initiate the change with the paddle and then time the off-on of the throttle.  If you don't lift soon enough you will zing it and if you are too early with the "on" you will do the same thing.

If you don't lift then the rev counter goes to its max value and engine damage is registered.

Changing down it's a matter of not being too agressive. By that I mean that unless the gears are close ratio you have to give the poor thing a chance to lose some speed before it has its neck wrung off by being jammed into a lower ratio that will scream its nuts off.

In the 65s at Monza, Curva Grande is a good example where this can happen.  In qually I was hardly lifting before snicking down a gear and getting back on the power.  In the race, if I had managed to load the correct setup, I would have been kinder to it and delayed the downshift a tad. 

[EvilClive]

This is getting tedious!!!  I keep agreeing with Clive

When I first started online racing I had never heard of speedshifting, although in fact I was doing it all the time!! I thought that the engine explosions were just some sort of random thing thrown in by the game software.

I think the first ever race I did online was watched by the venerable Mr Loynes, and he was the first person to mention "speedshifts" to me.
It took me a while to break the habit, but then I had been doing it for about 5 years whilst playing on my own!!!!
A whole season driving the Waza, ( Honda to the uninitiated) which has a very delicate engine if not treated with respect, taught me a great deal about gear changes, right foot control and survival.
As Clive says the ideal change up through the box will see the rev counter drop from just below the red line and stick ( without bouncing off the stops) as the higher gear is engaged. Likewise changing down, I suggest practising your braking to lose the same amount of speed but delaying the gearchange, by making your first change from 5th to 4th, when you would normally be doing 4th to 3rd.
Then you should have the revs low enough to make further changes without hitting the rev limiter.

 There is no penalty in 65's for a Shift-R reset because it is intended to be a fun introduction to GPL online racing, and quite right too.

If, as we all hope you guys new to this, progress into the 66's and 67's and maybe the 69's these things will become more important.. Some races either do not allow any Shift-R's ( so blow the engine and you are a DNF statistic) or you will be required to perform a Stop and Go in the pit lane every time you wreck an engine. The first ends your race and fun prematurely, the second, you will discover, is one hell of a handicap. Besides losing probably 5 seconds doing the original Shift-R and getting back up to speed with cold tyres and full fuel load and driving steadily until tyres are up to temp, you then have to slow down, enter the pits, stop and restart losing probably another 20 secs  all told!!
Many a race has been won in GPL by the guy who is not alien fast, but maintains a quick but safe pace and has no "offs" or "mechanical malfunctions" and just picks off those who have taken the risk and paid the price. Also many a race has been lost in the last couple of laps as an engine that has been thrashed for 20 odd laps finally says "enough". I know both scenarios

I suppose that as in the real world of 65, we all occasionally take a calculated risk if things are that close and we need a do or die effort to get that podium place...but be prepared to pay the price!!  as I did in the last Masters race just 50mtrs from the chequered flag and 1st place where I was trying to hold off a much faster Lotus and just over revved out of the last corner blowing the gaskets in the process.. At least I managed to coast over the line for 2nd  .

[b_1_rd]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I only employ(ed) this method in 65's and would never think about doing so in anything else.  Although, now after your follow up I will switch to not making them anymore (well maybe the odd one!;)).

I'm pleased I said about it now, or I'd have been blindly driving on right up until the engine made it's way towards the edge of space.

 

[Jack O'Ferrall]

Ok Al here you are!

REED RACING: HOW TO BE MEDIOCRE  by Jack O'Ferrall winner of [0] races in the 2008 season.

I am approaching a zenith of mediocrity.  Fairly soon I will fall away onto the Other Side, no longer becoming more mediocre the faster I go.  However, while there is only a very remote possibility that I will ever be among the fastest UKGPL drivers, I am, for the moment, probably the most middling.  How did I get there?

These are some lessons I learnt:

i) Slow in, fast out.  You have to be able to brake from a high speed in a controlled fashion, however much track it takes.  The lack of resistance of the pedal can fool you into using 100% brakes.  If you wobble, alter your approach next time.

ii) On the other hand you can also drop gears too quickly when you start to slow down.  At T1 at Mexico you need to time your downshifts so that you don't end up in a lower gear too soon, without leaving yourself in a higher gear too late....

iii) Corner in an appropriate gear.  A higher gear doesn't mean higher speed- the car may then seem to understeer off the track no matter how little throttle you use.  Keep your revs up in a corner.

iv) You need to be more cautious on cold tyres, also you have to complete a couple of laps before you can put a decent time in.

v) Set up your hardware properly.  You need enough force feedback to tell you what the car is doing, not so much that turning the wheel is made difficult.  I found that I preferred 'full linear' and a 7:1 steering ratio to get as much control as possible, but I'm still unsure how the fast guys get their wheel speed, probably experience and anticipation?

vi) If you lose control of the car, brake heavily.

vii) Use one of these slow and rather bland and predictable setups: http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver I haven't added Mexico to these yet though I will- you can use the East London set up though, perhaps you might need slightly taller top gears.  

viii) Congratulations you have become a slow driver, I recommend more practice, more advanced techniques ("I just chuck it in") and not to trust the small folk with caps and beards.  

[NickyIckx]

 

First I like to thank for  hosting  this race !!! excellent Internet-quality too !!
As well , I like to thank every driver for making  this race to an real great funny event !!!
Special thanks goes to Alain Maurice and too the driver , was always close to Alain and me too , for making   an  brilliant thrilling  race.
Luckily I could made it to the end. Wasn’t sure off course, so I pushed hard the first couple of laps , still knowing  my tyres will burned out to the last laps.
And more important the engine`s temperatures , which I know by test races , starts to get critical at the mid off the race ( 116° average ) , due to the fact off my shifting style and gear ratio. Guess the fact I managed the start very lucky , serves me the comfortable situation to stay ahead on the faster drivers.
Puuuh was really hard work. Nevertheless  , no doubt  , Ferrari power makes it all .

Well , looking forward to Mexico , I`m thinking`to use the cooper  for the first time.

But first off all , I am really looking forward to these UK 65mod league seams to be established now by success.
Lots off  nice drivers and a great administrator working for this all .
One more time big thanks for that !
I really enjoy you all .

see ya at Mexico
Nick Ickx

[bernie]

Blimey !

All them happy GPL'ers , never seen so many smilin faces in one leaugue , dont think I can take much more of this after my being brought up on large doses of Monza PU races 

Please
Lets have more flamin blamin and less of this patronising stuff its drivin me crazy 


What'cher mean I'm already crazy   

Nurse ! Nurse !  where's me meds quick 

[Clive Loynes]

Oh dear its BAD BERNIE back.

Have you run out of the special pile cream again Bernie?

Repeat after me "I WILL NOT BE A GRUMPY OLD CURMUDGEON"

I know its difficult, on your medication, but try to remember when you discovered GPL!  When you realised that this is what the computer industry had been striving for all those years.

If we have any more of this I will make sure Matron has a new pair of rubber gloves to resume your special treatment.

Here we have this group of enthusiastic new starters all aspiring to be the next Bernie Darwin, so be on your best behaviour, or Matron will be looking for you.  I've cancelled nurse Gladys for this afternoon as well.

[bernie]

[qoute]I've cancelled nurse Gladys for this afternoon as well.[/qoute]


Oh no !

I take it all back

promise! promise!