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  • S17D1 Albi: March 22, 2009
March 22, 2009, 09:58:16 PM +0000 - Albi (1959-80) - UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Division 1
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Samb
 Reed Racing
BRM P115 F1 1967 6 +1.273
113.665mph
1 51:02.279
111.600mph
42 1:12.095
112.864mph
Goodyear  
Will Tway
 Antipasti Racing
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 5 +1.094
113.950mph
2 +12.700
111.139mph
42 1:11.862
113.230mph
Firestone  
FullMetalGasket
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 8 +1.937
112.620mph
3 +20.216
110.868mph
42 1:12.358
112.454mph
Firestone  
Turkey Machine
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 3 +0.103
115.553mph
4 (+4) +33.648
110.387mph
42 1:10.527
115.373mph
Firestone  
Doni Yourth
 
BRM P115 F1 1967 9 +2.786
111.312mph
5 +1:09.627
109.119mph
42 1:12.830
111.725mph
Goodyear  
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 1 1:10.314
115.723mph
6 (+1) +1L
113.061mph
41 1:10.904
114.760mph
Firestone  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 7 +1.773
112.876mph
7 +1:28.905
109.754mph
41 1:11.988
113.032mph
Firestone  
Jack O'Ferrall
 Reed Racing
BRM P115 F1 1967 13 +4.419
108.880mph
8 +2:23.220
107.828mph
41 1:13.568
110.604mph
Goodyear  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 10 +3.533
110.186mph
9 +2L
106.353mph
40 1:13.397
110.862mph
Firestone  
Clive Loynes
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 4 +0.537
114.845mph
10 +7L
108.034mph
35 1:10.945
114.693mph
Disco
Firestone  
Napo
 
BRM P115 F1 1967 11 +3.837
109.734mph
11 +18L
107.845mph
24 1:12.500
112.233mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Gasper Lednik
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 2 +0.077
115.596mph
12 +35L
111.931mph
7 1:11.433
113.910mph
Disco
Firestone  
Michael Turner
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 12 +4.273
109.093mph
13 +38L
95.839mph
4 1:16.567
106.272mph
Disco
Firestone  
1 UKGPL
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 14 15 DNS ---
---
Goodyear  

Moderator's Report

Since taking on the moderator's role for Div 1 and the instigation of the "Srou court system", life has been fairly quiet for me with only a handful of incidents to comment on.

However, this race has more than made up for that !!

I will apologise in advance for not only the length of this report but also the delay in publishing it, but I think that there are some issues and decisions involved that needed to be carefully considered and explained.

The issues raised from some of the incidents in this race have been debated at some length by the moderator's in private where many views have been expressed. Not only in terms of what was observed at Albi, but also looking forward to see how we might avoid similar situations in the future.
The incidents in the race provoked some lively exchanges on the public forum with members posting comments from both sides of the pit wall. This is naturally quite healthy, provided that things are not allowed to get too personal or entrenched.
The whole purpose of moderation is to diffuse such volatile situations by judging the actions of drivers impartially and resolving contentious incidents as fairly as possible.


The first two reported incidents are what one might call a "normal" subjects for moderation and have been dealt with as such.

The other incidents submitted to the court have been assessed, not only as individual incidents but also as part of a connected series of events involving the same drivers.

The moderators can see no way to edit or publish a rule to specifically cover the situation in this race, that would not surely cause more problems and arguments than it solves in the future. Therefore I have had to apply the rules and penalties as they stood at the start of this race to the incidents as they appeared.

Hindsight ( a powerful tool) suggests that Hristo might have been better advised to allow Jethro to unlap himself, as his lead was so substantial that he was in very little danger of being caught by the second place car.

Jethro appears to have become increasingly frustrated to the point that he made a gross error of judgement in rear ending Hristo and loses further places as a penalty after fighting his way back into the points.

A little red mist seems to have obscured clear thinking as the race progressed.

Over the course of a few laps, both drivers appear to have become severly irritated by the actions of the other, each believing that they were entitled to drive and take up track positions as they did.

Hristo appears to have interpreted the rule referring to drivers being lapped, as meaning that he should not have his race compromised by a lapped car and one can see how that interpretation could be arrived at.
Unfortunately, the rule in question was never formulated to cover an instance such as this, where a potentially faster car that has caught the leader believes it can and should "unlap" itself, as it was generally assumed that the lapped car would by definition be significantly slower.

We cannot have a rule that forbids a car unlapping itself, but similarly, we cannot force the car 1 lap in the lead to yield track position if they do not wish to.
We could have a position where the 2nd place car was only a second or so behind, maybe not close enough to generate blue flags, but close enough that the leading car would not wish to yield his position to a lapped car no matter how fast that was.

From Jethro's viewpoint he felt he had a car that was potentially faster and that he was being deliberately baulked and blocked by Hristo. That in no way mitigates the rear end shunt that ended Hristo's race.
If Jethro had achieved the pass, it is likely that Hristo would have been able to stay in his slipstream long enough to cause Jethro to be shown blue flags, forcing Jethro to yield position and start the whole scene over again.

As a result, both were at times guilty, to varying degrees at different times, of "Ungentlemanly Conduct" and/or "Aggressive driving".
There is within the rules, the option of disqualifying both drivers from the results on these grounds alone.


However, (in the belief that this will not be repeated or carried forward)
on top of the penalties accrued for their transgressions of the rules that were in force at the start of this race, I propose an official warning to both drivers for the next 3 Division 1 races that their conduct on the track will be monitored and if the moderators believe that there are instances where driving standards are not maintained an appropriate penalty will be applied irrespective of any report to the court system.

















Server replay time: 0h42m40s

1)42:40
Turn 1
Jethro is attempting to pass evilclive and moves to the inside line.
Clive thinks that he has left enough room for the Lotus to pass and keeps just about to the left hand side of the circuit as he turns in. Jethro appears to have gone in too deep and drifts wide at the apex, collecting the Honda and taking them both into the haybales on the outside of the circuit


side by side contact
1 place penalty



Server replay time: 0h42m45s

Clive's Honda rebounds from the haybales and runs backwards across the circuit and off of the racing line ( Clive allows this to continue until he is against the grass on the inside and out of the way) before attempting to restart and assess any damage.
Meanwhile Jethro who was against the haybales on the outside of the circuit attempts to rejoin the tarmac. Unfortunately Bernie is taking the racing line through T1 and is confronted with the rear of a very slow moving Lotus. Both cars are bounced against the haybales.

Jethro did try to stay as far off the circuit as possible whilst attempting a re-join, but unfortunately his car is only visible to Bernie at the last moment.

Whilst Jethro and Bernie re-compose themselves Clive makes good his escape and Hristo laps both of the stranded cars.

Although Jethro's rejoin cannot be described as "reckless", the rules state that he should remain stationary until he is sure tha the track behind is clear.

Bad rejoin - 1 place penalty


Server replay time: 0h49m53s

S/F straight
By this point in the race Hristo had lapped Jethro when he was involved in the "off" with Clive. Jethro has managed to close the gap over several laps and has attempted 3 or 4 passing moves to "unlap" himself, so far without success.
Jethro gets a better drive out of the last corner and is clearly gaining on Hristo as the approach the s/f line. He would in my opinion got alongside H before T1 ( whether or not he could have outbraked H, having failed at several other corners is open to conjecture).
However, H pulls across in front of J to take the inside line, a single move which he was entitled to make. Jethro swings to the outside of the circuit to press his attack, but H weaves back in front of him, which is now moving into the realms of weaving and blocking and Hristo prevents Jethro from getting alongside.

The published rules in force at the start of this race expressly forbid weaving and blocking under ANY circumstances.

The problem that we have here is somewhat unique in the history of UKGPL, and has caused the moderators to burn much midnight oil in trying to come devise a new ruling(s) that would cover this situation.

Clearly, a driver must be permitted to "unlap" himself if he is able to do so, otherwise we might as well decree that once lapped a driver MUST hold station regardless of the speed of the leaders car.

By the same token, one cannot rule that the leading car MUST "give way" and allow the pass to take place.






Server replay time: 0h50m23s

50:23
Jethro again gets a better drive onto the main straight with the Lotus and picks up the slipstream from the Honda.
As he moves to the left of the track to line up the pass H also moves left, but only to half way across the track in a single move
(quite legal).
There is still more than enough room for the Lotus to continue and contest the braking zone for DD.
Jethro appears to lift slightly when H moves left and (he may have thought that H was going to blatantly block him, but he did not) J loses momentum and the possible attempted pass and H clearly outbrakes J into DD.
The demon braking from the inside line sends H a little wide between the two apexes and J takes his car very wide on the first apex allowing him to straighten the second and get a quicker exit.
As they approach the right hand kink after DD, H still has a clear lead and is entitled to take the racing line through the apex of the corner. J meanwhile is clearly travelling faster after his better exit from DD and is closing quickly on the rear of the Honda.
Until the point of contact I cannot discern any attempt to reduce or check the speed of the Lotus nor can I detect anything but full acceleration from H. J runs into the rear wheel of the Honda at the apex of the corner.
The initial contact pushes H sideways and he somehow manages to prevent a spin but is in a slide. The impact causes J to also run wide and follow the sliding Honda hitting the same rear wheel again and removing it. Although J lifts off the throttle he does not seem to brake. H is forced to retire and J continues.

This was a blatant rear end shunt under acceleration.
Whether born out of sheer frustration or a totally misjudged attempt to set up a passing opportunity is questionable.
What is not in doubt is that as a result the clear leader was taken out of the race with only a very short distance to go.


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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Division 1 - Albi - Mar 22  (Read 9864 times)
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EvilClive
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« on: March 14, 2009, 10:03:49 PM +0000 »

UKGPL Season 17 - Division 1 - Race 2 - 67 mod - Albi

Albi there, will you? Roll Eyes

 After the high speed roller coaster through the hills and forests of the Ardenne, we move south to La Belle France and a circuit that is as flat as a flat thing that has been flattened by a flat iron ( except for a few molehills on the edge of the circuit in places).

For those of you visiting this circuit for the first time , its a short(ish) track and easy to learn, but like any circuit finding the optimum lap is not always easy. Be wary of too much demon braking into the hairpin...it usually ends in tears and frustration.

Old hands will know what to expect and the team battle looks like it might be quite lively this season if Spa was an indicator.

I hope we can repeat the numbers on the grid that we had in the first round and keep Division 1 bubbling.

Please exercise caution at the start ( he is overweight and needs to build his stamina Grin) as it is a short run to T1, which is blind, so if there is an "incident" with a leading car anyone from mid grid might find themselves faced with a road block as they round the grassy knoll.


Please be in VROC UKGPL chatroom by 8:55 p.m.
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
Race password: see above

Server ukgpl1
IP address TBC
Race date = 22-03-2009
Time = 21:00
Track = Albi
Variant = 67F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qually time = 30 minutes.
Race length =  (  42  laps)


Division 1
Single Stop Time
   
Double Stop Time
BRM
No Stop
   
N/A
Cooper
Stop and Go
   
N/A
Honda
Stop and Go
   
N/A
Brabham
4
   
N/A
Eagle
15
   
N/A
Ferrari
18
   
N/A
Lotus
32
   
11


 First Pit Window is: 33 (to go on your pit board) to 22 (to go on your pit board)
 Second Pit Window is: 31 (to go on your pit board) to 11 (to go on your pit board)


« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 01:20:49 PM +0000 by EvilClive » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2009, 11:53:02 PM +0000 »

...as flat as a flat thing that has been flattened by a flat iron...

I just put that as my Skype signature.  laugh
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2009, 10:57:33 PM +0000 »

I have a tasty pair of Setups if my fellow Waza's are interested  Wink
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 11:15:56 AM +0000 »

I have a tasty pair of Setups if my fellow Waza's are interested  Wink

As far as 67s are related I'm loaded up with setups, but thanks.  Cool
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2009, 01:21:48 PM +0000 »

Send me the setups and I will give them a go, just to see if they suit my wierd driving style Roll Eyes
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2009, 03:36:52 PM +0000 »

Will Email you when I get home  Smiley
I'll also send you my current (not quite finished) setup for the 65's for incase you're interested.
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2009, 07:59:05 PM +0000 »

I am hosting Division 1 practice overnight, no password on this one, but treat it nicely, I will not be there to babysit any catastrophes that occur (I'll be sleeping Grin). Anybody got a loose grid before I set this going?
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2009, 08:26:10 PM +0000 »

Anybody got a loose grid before I set this going?
You can get them from Mike's website; http://www.jamesonline.net/gpl/patches.htm
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2009, 08:45:47 PM +0000 »

Cheers for those Tim.

She's up on VROC tonight and overnight, be gentle. Smiley

Server name: "J.Walters"

Enjoy. Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2009, 03:04:09 PM +0000 »

So......... race password yet? I know it's 6 hours away, but still....
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2009, 05:43:00 PM +0000 »

?? not sure why the pword is not up yet, it should have appeared by now.

I will make sure that all my teammates have it before the start Grin..oh! and maybe one or two others. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2009, 07:49:07 PM +0000 »

?? not sure why the pword is not up yet, it should have appeared by now.

I will make sure that all my teammates have it before the start Grin..oh! and maybe one or two others. Roll Eyes

It should be there now Clive. You'd forgotten to select the smf topic and then hit update when you did the announcement.
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2009, 10:18:29 PM +0000 »

Installed the track on the machine, and jumped in qually to (re)learn this track. Ended up making a few too many mistakes, not the greatest setup I created. Remembering last time, the race was a disaster too but that time I at least had the pleasure of nailing Alan Wallace's Honda. laugh

Congrats to all who finished. Smiley
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2009, 10:58:31 PM +0000 »

Satisfied with qualy, seeings how I'd not done a lot of laps preparation for the race. Start went well, got into the lead when I think Hristo bogged down, and kept it until 1st pitstops. Made a couple big errors with nobody in sight between 1st and 2nd pitstop, and the 2nd one went well considering I got in front of Clive Loynes, who was my target in the Lotus. Tried going into T1 ahead of evilclive and totally missed the braking point, which knocked steering out of whack. This let Hristo through to lap me, so I just kept plodding along, and hoped to catch evilclive if he was ahead, which Prib said so. Got through, tried to pull a gap, had a very wide Hristo preventing me from opening any kind of gap, although I did do a couple quick laps, and then he weaved in front of me on the main straight which totally confused me as I was in a rhythm and attempting to at least maintain the gap, if not pull away, to clive. Then found myself mated to Hristo's Honda, and him ploughing the grass with 3 wheels, which I still maintain I couldn't avoid, but need to check the server replay since I had a couple issues throughout the race with slowdown, which probably manifested itself in warping car, which ain't exactly helpful.

I appreciate Hristo's very angry with me, and I would be if I'd been taken out whilst leading, but in his position, I'd have let the guy through, and probably a couple more guys behind if I'd checked Pribluda to see what was happening, and just eased off a lot on the last 3 laps. The fact he had a 40 second lead and was still pushing like crazy I don't quite get. In hindsight, I should have probably just let him go, but I was always gonna be close to him because we were very similar on pace, if not each quicker at times, and I tried to maintain a gap back to evilclive and see if I could catch the guy in front. I glanced at Prib to see where evilclive was, and I think he was a bit of a way behind, but it was a bit of a blur cos I wasn't sure what was happening.

EDIT: Having seen the replay I saved, it appears Hristo braked into the kink, which is flat in any car, and I couldn't avoid him. Almost makes me wanna say the words "brake test", but I doubt it was, since a racer of Hristo's calibre surely wouldn't do something like that.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 03:44:58 AM +0000 by Turkey Machine » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2009, 11:42:51 PM +0000 »

A very enjoyable race which resulted in a rather fortunate win in the face of adversity. Qualifying went well, I managed to shave a second off my Clubman's effort and ended up 6th (I think, can't really remember to be honest!). So, the start went away and I gained a couple places on the run down the straight and then had my good work undone when I outbraked myself for Double Droite. Was very lucky I kept it on the black stuff but I still lost a couple of places and found myself in 6th again, behind Clive's Honda. We then had a raging battle for a few laps till the Honda's back end decided to swap ends so I found myself driving my own race.

It remained that way throughout the rest of the race. I passed Jethro and Clive through the pitstops, overtaking a car here and there and found myself in 2nd with 10 or so laps to go. With a lap to go, still in 2nd about 40 seconds behind Hristo, I found myself in the lead at the race's end. I wondered how on earth that happened, but it turned out the Hristo and Jethro had an unfortunate tangle. A lucky win then. Hopefully Snetterton will produce another finish.
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