Season 19 Amateurs Trophy Registration

[Hristo Itchov]

I suppose you plan to put me in the BT7 again, but I urge you to at least give a slightly faster car choice for tracks where engine power makes a big difference (like Spa, Monza, etc.). The Cooper or BT11 come to mind.

can't see spa or monza on that list ...

john

I said "LIKE Spa, Monza..." and I can see Rouen, Zeltweg and Watkins on that list, which are LIKE Spa and Monza.

No need for silly games, JR, you know very well what is meant by engine power track...

well I wasn't being silly , but you know the rules that drivers get assigned a car to drive for the whole season  , so I can only guess you are just playing a silly games asking to swap depending on the track .

john

Well, since you fail to realize I was asking to be put in a bit faster car just for those tracks and remain in the slowest car for the rest, should I ask for the BT11 or Cooper for all tracks? I'm sure you would not want that...

[Turkey Machine]

I suppose you plan to put me in the BT7 again, but I urge you to at least give a slightly faster car choice for tracks where engine power makes a big difference (like Spa, Monza, etc.). The Cooper or BT11 come to mind.

can't see spa or monza on that list ...

john

I said "LIKE Spa, Monza..." and I can see Rouen, Zeltweg and Watkins on that list, which are LIKE Spa and Monza.

No need for silly games, JR, you know very well what is meant by engine power track...

well I wasn't being silly , but you know the rules that drivers get assigned a car to drive for the whole season  , so I can only guess you are just playing a silly games asking to swap depending on the track .

john

Well, since you fail to realize I was asking to be put in a bit faster car just for those tracks and remain in the slowest car for the rest, should I ask for the BT11 or Cooper for all tracks? I'm sure you would not want that...

H, if that happened, that would qualify others in the BT7 or the Cooper or other cars to ask for a faster one for the power tracks. If we say yes once.......

[Hristo Itchov]

H, if that happened, that would qualify others in the BT7 or the Cooper or other cars to ask for a faster one for the power tracks. If we say yes once.......

If you haven't got it yet, I simply refuse to drive in a car that has zero chance to win on tracks where driving skill matters least. I don't race to fight for 3rd position or lower, and rely only on luck to move up. In addition, when you have 4-5 cars passing you on a straight after you've managed to qualify better than all of them without a tow and you go faster in the corners than all of them, then something's definitely not right.

The whole campaign in recent years to severely handicap faster drivers in UKGPL has been rather demotivating and illogical to me. If this is how the Amateurs are going to continue I don't see a reason to compete. It's hardly about challenge or fun anymore. I simply proposed a middle-ground solution so it doesn't give me bigger advantages on other tracks. You don't really believe the faster cars are at a handicap at slower tracks, do you?

[john roberts]

the handicapping is over the whole season and with each driver having just the one chassis , with points from the races going towards the championship .

you get the slowest car because you are the fastest driver , that's how amateurs works . everybody else understands that .

not all the other division at ukgpl work this way but amateurs does , graduates works with tokens to try and even up the cars and not the drivers and in others drivers get placed in slower cars the higher they are in the championship , each has advantages and disadvantages .

the rules have been published and won't be changed just for you .

john

   

[Hristo Itchov]

the handicapping is over the whole season and with each driver having just the one chassis , with points from the races going towards the championship .

you get the slowest car because you are the fastest driver , that's how amateurs works . everybody else understands that .

not all the other division at ukgpl work this way but amateurs does , graduates works with tokens to try and even up the cars and not the drivers and in others drivers get placed in slower cars the higher they are in the championship , each has advantages and disadvantages .

the rules have been published and won't be changed just for you .

john

  

The problem is, it's not the chassis that is slower, it's the engine, so the handicapping is highly inconsistent. It simply doesn't work on tracks where engine makes the biggest difference. It's not like putting someone in a Honda or BRM in the 67s, which have fairly strong engines but heavy, bad handling chassis, but would still go well even at tracks like Spa and Monza.

Here it's not handicapping, because even if you don't do a single mistake and drive on the absolute limit, you have zero chance to compete with cars that just have 20-30 km/h higher straight line speed and much better acceleration. That's the problem with handicapping this way in 65 mod - all chassis have similar weight and handling characteristics.

I believe handicapping's idea is to give a chance for slower drivers to battle for top positions, not to take away the chance of faster drivers to win. Don't you agree? I've brought this point numerous times before and this is a good chance to bring it up again. I also believe it's not me who suffer because of the way it's done, you just need to look at race results and see some of the top UKGPL drivers struggling to even make it into the top 5.

[john roberts]

the championship is over the whole season , it could be said that you have an unfair advantage at twisty tracks . would you agree with that ?

john

[miner2049er]

Like John says, the handicapping is to even up the entrants over a season not each individual race otherwise we would run the same track 10 times. In real world racing some cars are better suited to faster tracks than others but everybody still enters each race.

The races are now shorter than last season so you are not on the limit for such a long time as a 50% Grand Prix but to say you won't compete for 3rd place or lower is a little naive.

Tim won last season's title by over 100 points but only won 2 races (1 less than you) his worst 2 results dropped were a no show and a 4th. You don't have to be competitive at every circuit to win the championship.

I am not allocating the chassis on my own but I honestly cannot see you getting anything other than a BT7 for the season. The conditions of entry for the 65s is that a chassis is allocated for the season and people who sign up are aware of it. We are lucky at UKGPL in that we have many fast and consistent drivers, particularly in 65s but unfortunately not all of them can fit in the top 5 at the same time.

Incidentally, you won't be the only person not to get their chassis of choice.

[miner2049er]

Oh and could I please ask that this discussion be moved elsewhere as this is the registration thread and it makes it easier to track chassis requests etc with less posts in it.

I'm sure the discussion would thrive in its own thread.

[Hristo Itchov]

the championship is over the whole season , it could be said that you have an unfair advantage at twisty tracks . would you agree with that ?

john

What is my "unfair" advantage? I'd very much like to hear about that. 

[natan5]

Im in 
Pls tell me wich car i can drive
cheers
Natan

[Clive Loynes]

the championship is over the whole season , it could be said that you have an unfair advantage at twisty tracks . would you agree with that ?

john

What is my "unfair" advantage? I'd very much like to hear about that. 

LOL
Being too damn fast!

Good luck in the coming season H.

[Hristo Itchov]

the championship is over the whole season , it could be said that you have an unfair advantage at twisty tracks . would you agree with that ?

john

What is my "unfair" advantage? I'd very much like to hear about that. 

LOL
Being too damn fast!

Good luck in the coming season H.

Yes, being fast is such an unfair advantage, lol. But I think JR probably meant something else but he's afraid to say it openly.

It's luck that had more impact in my results in the last two Amateurs seasons than anything to do with driving, so yeah, I need that. That is, If I care to bother with racing this division at all. I'm sure some would be very glad if I don't.

[john roberts]

the championship is over the whole season , it could be said that you have an unfair advantage at twisty tracks . would you agree with that ?

john

What is my "unfair" advantage? I'd very much like to hear about that. 

LOL
Being too damn fast!

Good luck in the coming season H.

Yes, being fast is such an unfair advantage, lol. But I think JR probably meant something else but he's afraid to say it openly.

It's luck that had more impact in my results in the last two Amateurs seasons than anything to do with driving, so yeah, I need that. That is, If I care to bother with racing this division at all. I'm sure some would be very glad if I don't.

i said could ...

john

[Phil Thornton]

I’ve made my view on the chassis allocation system pretty clear on the moderator’s forum and in the Season 17 mid-season review.  I also tried to precipitate some discussion on the matter in the Season 18 mid-season review.  I prefer a system like the Historics have but the fact is the majority of the moderators and drivers seem to prefer chassis allocation and since I don’t want to run UKGPL on my own I’m happy to go along with it.  Over the last 2 seasons the 65s have proved to be the most popular division so it can’t be all bad.

If you register for the Amateurs H you will get the BT7, no question.  You are the fastest driver and hence the rules as they stand mean you can’t have anything else.  If it annoys you so much, don’t register and someone else will get the BT7.  Probably Mike Beattie (if he registers) or Jethro (because if he didn’t keep crashing would be blo*dy quick) and that means there will be a lot of candidates for the Cooper.  It doesn’t take a genius to work out that guys like Evil, Tim Muttram, JR and Fulvio will be in the frame for a Cooper.  Eventually if everyone complains about being given the BT7 or the Cooper the division won’t be viable and we’ll have to change the rules.  The only thing that is certain is that I’ll end up in the Ferrari because there won’t be anybody slower than me.  It doesn’t matter what chassis I get I’ve no chance of winning but that doesn’t stop me taking part and who knows if there is someone at the back to race with I might even enjoy it.

[Hristo Itchov]

I’ve made my view on the chassis allocation system pretty clear on the moderator’s forum and in the Season 17 mid-season review.  I also tried to precipitate some discussion on the matter in the Season 18 mid-season review.  I prefer a system like the Historics have but the fact is the majority of the moderators and drivers seem to prefer chassis allocation and since I don’t want to run UKGPL on my own I’m happy to go along with it.  Over the last 2 seasons the 65s have proved to be the most popular division so it can’t be all bad.

If you register for the Amateurs H you will get the BT7, no question.  You are the fastest driver and hence the rules as they stand mean you can’t have anything else.  If it annoys you so much, don’t register and someone else will get the BT7.  Probably Mike Beattie (if he registers) or Jethro (because if he didn’t keep crashing would be blo*dy quick) and that means there will be a lot of candidates for the Cooper.  It doesn’t take a genius to work out that guys like Evil, Tim Muttram, JR and Fulvio will be in the frame for a Cooper.  Eventually if everyone complains about being given the BT7 or the Cooper the division won’t be viable and we’ll have to change the rules.  The only thing that is certain is that I’ll end up in the Ferrari because there won’t be anybody slower than me.  It doesn’t matter what chassis I get I’ve no chance of winning but that doesn’t stop me taking part and who knows if there is someone at the back to race with I might even enjoy it.

Phil, why after 3 seasons (I think) of Amateurs divison you haven't noticed that, in the 65 mod, engine power matters the most and on tracks with long straights or hard acceleration, it makes a huge difference and whatever chassis allocations you did that may work for regular tracks simply don't work on fast tracks? I don't see why the rules can't be more adaptive and elastic, if i can say that, and have a set of 2 rules or something for engine-dependent and chassis-dependant tracks. This can make it much more fair for everyone on ALL tracks. I hope you consider such thing and you can easily do it based on results from races on those different tracks, not just on my own words.