UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Watkins Glen (GP) - Jan 9

[Rick Nauman]

Oh come on, Rick, 5 seconds?! You were as quick from the mid-corner (The Loop) onward and we were having just about the same acceleration, and given that the corner is taken flat out on the exit and that you had a superior car, it was impossible to do anything about avoiding you. You lost speed all of a sudden, it was not a gradual loss of control which I could've predicted. Nobody expects someone to slow down on a part of the track which is taken flat out, especially when they normally have the speed to be as fast as you and when you're fighting with them for position.

As for fist waving, I believe it's appropriate and justifies my frustration at that specific moment.

Being that I almost got sideways what made you think I could to be flat out on the exit.  What makes you think I would fight you for the position with 30 laps to go when you're at least 2 seconds per lap faster than me?  You caught up to me midway thru the esses.  Before that you were still a spec in my mirror.  After my esses bobble and your skillful avoidance of me, our gap opened up slightly going down the straight.  At this point I thought, "OK, that was scary, I'll let him by after the loop".  The rest is history.

You followed me close for about 1/4 lap.  That doesn't exactly qualify as a major impediment.  Your fist shake shows, as you say, your frustration.  So I'll say again that a little more patience would really be beneficial.  Especially to the guy in front who almost always gets the worst of it.

[Hristo Itchov]

You didn't just get sideways, you slowed down by quite a margin - there's a big difference. If you just got sideways and carried speed, I would've had enough time to react. Given that I was trying to get into your slipstream down the following straight and that up until your slide you were just slightly slower (thanks to your entry), I cannot anticipate a sudden change in speed nor I can do anything about avoiding you unless I had gotten sideways and slowed down at about the same time as you, or a few hundreds later. If you observe the replay, I did try to slow down but it was too late for that. As you probably know, it's rather difficult to slow the car down when it's in a corner and on the limit of grip.

As for patience and waiting, I don't expect that anyone is going to let me through, why would they? So from that point of view, why should I back off instead of be on the attack? I wasn't attempting to pass you in either the exit of the esses nor inside the loop, so you can't say I took you off because I was impatient to pass you. Please take responsibility for what you did as well, because if you see it clearly, it was either both of us at fault, or neither of us. And that's just the definition of a racing incident.

[Podkrecony_Ziutek]

I'm going to repeat myself, but: Guys, could you please continue this in PM's? If it doesn't wok, maybe just use this magic button called: "Submit an incident report" and let this be decided by a moderator

Back to my race:

I wasn't happy with my qual.I've made my fastest lap at the beginning and later I couldn't improve it(probably I was just pushing to much). At the end of session. I've noticed that I'm still 3rd and leaders should be in my reach, so I decided to concentrate on the race.

My plan for the race was to stay close to the leaders and keep both Tom's behind me

Start wasn't great and into Esses I was 2w with Tom(KH). Afther Esses Tom left behind and soon I had different Tom behind be Because that fight with KH at the beginning of the race I've lost time and leaders gained advantage, but I wasn't worried about that because knowing both of them I was sure that they will fight with eachother and I'll be able to catch them again. They didn't disappointed me and before Big Bend I was pretty close to them. I saw that they are still fighting for position, so decided to take it easy and wait for them to make a mistake. Unfortunately they did crash and suddenly I've become a leader.
I hate to be a leader in league race, I just don't feel comfortable in this situation and I can't make myself to drive fast. Luckily I was feeling quite comfortable on cold tires and I was able to make a small gap between me and Tommie. Afther few laps Tommie made a mistake and lost few seconds, but he quickly recovered and started chasing me. I was quite worried about how fast He is chasing me. Then he made a mistake again and again he started to make me worried

With 10 laps to go, I was sure that Tommie will catch me soon. I was driving as fast as a could(but still not as fast as I'm able) and luckily I saw the checked flag first

[Rick Nauman]

I promise this will be my last comment in the forum but since it's come this far I'll finish my point here.

As for patience and waiting, I don't expect that anyone is going to let me through, why would they?

Because you're massively faster than them?  I understand this is a point of view you are not familiar with.  But for many average drivers, not all, efforts to hold off drivers of your caliber for more than 1 lap usually prove pointless and unnecessarily stressful, often ending badly.

Please take responsibility for what you did as well, because if you see it clearly, it was either both of us at fault, or neither of us. And that's just the definition of a racing incident.

I fully admit to fault for not being in control and losing speed which triggered the chain of events leading to the incident.  And I do totally see it as an incident, which is why filing a report never crossed my mind.  But I'm not going to back off on my position that you're intense desire to immediately get by me, a driver way off your pace, even while you could see I was struggling, was too aggressive and unnecessary.

And just so you know, I'm not mad.  It's not like you wrecked a wonderful season I had going!    It's just disappointing to crash out 1/3 of the way into a race when your plan was to surrender the position 5 seconds later.

And that's all I got to say about that.   

[Hristo Itchov]

Because you're massively faster than them?  I understand this is a point of view you are not familiar with.  But for many average drivers, not all, efforts to hold off drivers of your caliber for more than 1 lap usually prove pointless and unnecessarily stressful, often ending badly.

To you 1 second (and probably much less in race trim on full tanks with overheating tires) is massively faster? Given that you had a car with a better engine, you can EASILY compensate by keeping me at bay down the straights. I've raced countless number of people who are normally a bit slower than me, but were able to race me on equal grounds for half the race or even the whole race sometimes. As an example, you can ask Clive Loynes if he remembers a certain Mexico race.

And what do you mean by "average drivers", you really consider yourself as such? Please, Rick, I've raced you not once before and sometimes you were even holding the upper-hand, so I'm rather surprised you're trying to sneak out by saying you're lacking pace, potential or skills.

It's a point I'm perfectly familiar with, but unless you've changed completely over the last few months, it's not a point I can apply to you as a driver. It's exactly because I've raced you properly in the past that I see this situation as not typical to how you would usually react on the track. Forgive me if I'm wrong about it.

I fully admit to fault for not being in control and losing speed which triggered the chain of events leading to the incident.  And I do totally see it as an incident, which is why filing a report never crossed my mind.  But I'm not going to back off on my position that you're intense desire to immediately get by me, a driver way off your pace, even while you could see I was struggling, was too aggressive and unnecessary.

And just so you know, I'm not mad.  It's not like you wrecked a wonderful season I had going!    It's just disappointing to crash out 1/3 of the way into a race when your plan was to surrender the position 5 seconds later.

And that's all I got to say about that.   

My desire is simply to race with other people and that means overtaking them. To do that against someone in a faster car means I need to get into their slipstream and that's all I was trying to do at that moment. And believe it or not, I always feel bad when something like this happens because in the end I continue and you (in this case) spin/crash off and retire, but at the same time there's no going back.

If you observe my race report carefully, I didn't address it to you or anyone else, but just expressing my train of thoughts fresh from the race because I think it is only then that you can be as honest as possible. I wouldn't have replied and started this discussion if you didn't try to tell me what I should be doing when placed in such situations and trying to showcase your mistake as something that removes responsibility. If that wasn't your intention, fine, but it looked like that to me.

@Pod, if you don't like it, don't read it. If a forum isn't meant for discussing things, whether good or bad, I don't know what it is for.

[Hristo Itchov]

I fully admit to fault for not being in control and losing speed which triggered the chain of events leading to the incident.  And I do totally see it as an incident, which is why filing a report never crossed my mind.

Hehe, if you didn't file a report, then who just did? 

[Podkrecony_Ziutek]

@Pod, if you don't like it, don't read it. If a forum isn't meant for discussing things, whether good or bad, I don't know what it is for.

It's not like don't like it. Actually this kid of discussions are quite entertaining Problem is, that it don't solve anything. In most cases both drivers in the end will agree, that they don't agree with each other 

In my opinion submitting a race report is the only way to clear the air. Also it doesn't have to end with penalty, all you have to do is to ask for no penalty for the other driver.

[Baab]

Just submitted my statement for L1 shunt, I didn't report this so must be a moderator action...or another racer. 

The racing is fun for me and while I acknowledge the need for moderation I consider it to be over the top, sometimes more stringent than in real F1.  Everyone is racing to have a good time and I'm sure there are no deliberate premeditated actions.  I do enjoy the racing though, which I why I am still here (hopefully I won't be booted out for this!).

Roll on Kya, one of my favourites.

Bob

[Rick Nauman]

Hehe, if you didn't file a report, then who just did? 

Don't know.  Ask the moderators.

[vosblod]

Hehe, if you didn't file a report, then who just did? 

Don't know.  Ask the moderators.

Just to clarify anyone can submit a report not just those drivers directly involved. It doesn't really matter who did. My personal position, as a division moderator, is I wouldn't normally submit individual reports. If I was going to look at incidents mentioned in the forum I would review the whole race.

[Hristo Itchov]

Since it wasn't either Rick or Bob, whoever did I can only pity them... Neither case has anything to do with them and that leaves personal grudge as the only reason for them to submit a report on both incidents. 

[Turkey Machine]

Hmm, things got personal. Grats to former teamie Bartosz on the win. Shame I couldn't go for this one, but it was too much of a risk with no practice on full tanks and an unwieldy Honda. Kyalami's not holding out much hope either, despite the fact I luuuurve the place.

[Tom van Ostade]

Since it wasn't either Rick or Bob, whoever did I can only pity them... Neither case has anything to do with them and that leaves personal grudge as the only reason for them to submit a report on both incidents. 

Why do you pity them? I know for a fact league moderators like it if reports are filed, just to make sure races are dealt with cleanly. It sounds like you are intimidating people not to file reports for accidents, which is against the wish of the people running the league, as Tim literally asked us to file reports in this very thread. I doubt it very much anyone would file any report because they held a grudge, but to prevent people from making the same mistakes twice. That's how it was at GPLRacer's, T League's, Fun-Liga's, or any other league I've driven races in. And this league appears to be no different.

Perhaps it's unusual that a driver not directly involved files the report, but as you explained to me, you've got nothing to worry about so I don't understand why you want to keep things quiet. I trust they'll do what's right and don't issue any unfair penalties.

Just to make things clear, I didn't file a report for this race, but I will file a report should it happen that I collide with someone else. I can only learn from my mistakes if I know I made them or not.

Please don't take it personal Hristo, I don't want to attack you at all, I just disagree with you that's all. I'd hate to see another message written by an annoyed Hristo. That is not my goal. My goal is to state my opinion about the subject you just brought forward in your post I quoted. That's it .

Tom.

[vosblod]

Last orders for this on any reports gents. Looking to close it off soon.

[Hristo Itchov]

This is the first time someone files a report for an incident I'm involved in and they are not, in fact - 2 separate incidents. First time in what, 6 years? I'm 100% sure it wouldn't have happened if the incidents weren't mentioned and discussed here on the forum, so the reasons why someone did it are obvious.

It has nothing to do with intimidation because I have no reason to intimidate. If someone feels intimidated then that's their own problem. And no, I'm not worried, in fact I'm not even going to add anything to those reports - it's all in the admin's hands, I have trust in fair and objective judgement. Besides, I already said more than enough in this thread concerning the incidents.

I don't take it personal at all. If I did, some people would see special treatment from me on the track, but that doesn't happen and won't happen in the future unless I have to defend myself. The rules would prevent us to run with people who may end up deserving "special" treatment. Nonetheless I'll be watchful on people's habits when racing me compared to how they race other people; any difference would become obvious and revealing to what their intentions are.

As for being annoyed, wouldn't you be if you were in my shoes? Think carefully about it before answering...