GT fun Series race REIMS

[Phil Thornton]

In fact Phil, I think I managed to pass you once (oh the shame!) at the last turn and you are MUCH faster than me so it is possible to race cleanly.

If you are talking about lap 4, yes I remember that one.  You got a good draft on me and I saw you coming up the inside but when you disappeared from my mirrors I couldn't be sure where you were so I stayed wide and gave you plenty of room.  Good job too because you over did it a bit and ended up in the sand and I nipped back through on the inside .

[Hristo Itchov]

Phil, all that you say is simply part of racing. You will never get rid of lap 1 incidents or incidents in general, nor you will never have a guarantee that someone is not going to punt you off the road (or out the race). Next time the roles may switch around, because making mistakes is also part of the game, even if you're not overly aggressive.

All in all, I'm against bending the reality of racing just so we can have a more sanitized version of it. Just look at modern F1 to see what it ends up being.

I've been taken out and punted off many times, but unless you're extremely unlucky, it doesn't happen so often per driver. The roles seem to rotate around over a season in a steady manner, so everyone gets their share of good and bad luck. It is only people who keep causing accidents over and over again who don't fit into that model.

What Pro rules create is that uncertainty and the feeling of unknown which makes races more exciting and chasing the result more worthwhile. The rewards of getting to the end in Pro rules race and scoring well are of greater magnitude, both mentally and emotionally. It leads to more personal growth (IMO) than any Int race. The latter seem to flourish the repetitiveness of bad habits. Of course, no offence to all newbies who are still on the steepest part of the learning curve and actually benefit from having it slightly easier.

[maddog]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I think rolling starts are a bit cissy.  Our grids are already much more spread out, than were originally intended.

I find the GT's in particular, to be both sound and vision challenged.  A single reset will probably help to smooth inter-driver relations, and encourage a larger selection of drivers to participate. 

[BadBlood]

In fact Phil, I think I managed to pass you once (oh the shame!) at the last turn and you are MUCH faster than me so it is possible to race cleanly.

If you are talking about lap 4, yes I remember that one.  You got a good draft on me and I saw you coming up the inside but when you disappeared from my mirrors I couldn't be sure where you were so I stayed wide and gave you plenty of room.  Good job too because you over did it a bit and ended up in the sand and I nipped back through on the inside .

I didn't say I made it stick... There is a reason you are much faster

I was actually thinking of lap 3 when you outbraked me (and yourself) at the same last turn and I passed on the inside after giving way.

My point was that the draft on the GTs is insane but as long as you are careful (as you were and I wasn't on lap 4 and as I was on lap 3 (lol)) you can race nicely like my Mum would like I have to take my victories where I can - I got a pass and the fact you chewed me up and spat me out a lap later just shows that good will out

I was just teasing. It is fun for me when I get a pass on a better driver (actually any pass I make is generally on a better driver but I'm working to change that )

[blito]

i dont see much benefit from a rolling start. it complicates things unneccessarriillyy (just how do you spell that word?) and you are gurantedd to have at least one guy "forget" and mess everything up... happens in ukgtr all the time ...... wasnt me , honest!

[Ronniepeterson]

This idea for splitting tokens and rewarding those who finish. I like it myself. But over the course of a season we would surely end up with the fastest guys in the fastest cars and the slowest guys in the slowest cars, which may not encourage new drivers to race in the first place?

On the subjest of rolling starts thats a no no. Reasons are just too many to list but one main concern would be being behind someone simply not keeping up during the rolling start and not being able to do a thing about it.

[EvilClive]

This idea for splitting tokens and rewarding those who finish. I like it myself. But over the course of a season we would surely end up with the fastest guys in the fastest cars and the slowest guys in the slowest cars, which may not encourage new drivers to race in the first place?

The purpose of this mini series was to see if the token system worked ( and HOW it worked in practice). Already I can see where I think certain values need to be adjusted to improve things. Yes, I agree , that probably the fastest guy in the fastest car will always win the race.
But, by making it a team event there are more points to be gained by getting your other 2 members to the finish even in midfield positions. I know that means surviving the race and driving for the team and not personal glory, but I was hoping that we might be able to introduce this extra element into the GT races and generate a little more inter team rivalry.
So far in the season it seems that the Orange team has ( despite their protestations that they were unfairly handicapped by having two high value drivers in their line up!!) a commanding lead and Nicky's cunning ploy of having 3 Ferraris and 3 lower value drivers has not quite worked how he thought. The car values were based upon the supposed reliabilty factor of the cars and this has not quite worked as I was expecting with Lolas and Chapps surviving races where frankly I expected them to suffer.
When this short season is over we will have some better data to re assess the values of the cars and their merits.

[/quote]
On the subjest of rolling starts thats a no no. Reasons are just too many to list but one main concern would be being behind someone simply not keeping up during the rolling start and not being able to do a thing about it.
[/quote]

I am still happy to give this a try, just to say that we have given it a go, maybe at Monza? which at least would give us a long straight to get things under way?? But it seems that a few others have the same reservations that I have over how it will work.

[Ronniepeterson]

I'm with you totally Evil. My comment on the tokens was really aimed at an individual championship. And if Pod could actual;ly make a rce maybe the red team would be closer to the orange team. This is a great trial series and yes an ideal place to give the rolling start a go.

[Hristo Itchov]

We, Oranges, just spend actual time (close to 2 hours!) in chat to discuss and evaluate different scenarios for car selection that would produce the best results, depending on the type of tracks we're faced with and the opposition choice of cars (thanks for telling   ), so don't be surprised by the end result. As for reliability, it's not like we're speedshifting or overreving, so that is definitely a factor. You can't just expect a car to last if you're being naughty with it.  

[BadBlood]

The series is working quite well Clive. Thanks for all your effort in organising. As for rolling starts, maybe only to be used where T1 is awkward? For instance if we used Kyalami. I'd like to try it once.

The team series is working well and although the Oranges are not the only fruit... drivers haven't adapted to the necessity to finish. If we had managed to get our three drivers home each race we would have a healthy second place with a fast track to come. There is no doubt that Nicky didn't pick the best drivers but we can contribute healthy points just by keeping it honest. So I think the strategies are working out well but I think that you need to have a balanced team because the cars are SO different in their performance. Track choice also then becomes critical. The Ford GT40 Mk IV would surely rule at Le Mans but how about Jarama? I'd want the Porsche there.

You could also get creative about points for PB's to keep people interested if the car is not competetive. As an example, Ronnie was way off at Reims but needed to finish - so conservative driving but what if there was a ten point bonus for a PB. Do you hold back in qually and go for the bonus or do you Banzai on track and risk a crash etc etc.

Lots of ways we could tweak it but the basic format is sound, I think. I am certainly enjoying it - its certainly the closest racing I get!

[happyal]

Thanks Clive for getting this off teh ground. I like the teams, it gives a driver like me, who has no chance of winning, or even being near the front, a chance to drive for something else apart from improve my times, lines etc. With the team scores it makes me want to finish teh race and give something to the team, if there wasn't points for the team I would of left in Mexico as I was having a big off day.

I aggree that the cars just don't seem to break, I've heard a few people saying they have had a problem but it doesn't seem to happen in the race at all.

On the point of rolling starts, I'm OK with either way as where I am doesn't seem to make much difference for me. I'd perfer the system we have now, but I'll go with what ever everyone else thinks. I like the idea of having 1 Shift & R in the bag in case I make a mistake, but if we went Pro rules I would still race.

Thanks again Clive and I'm looking forward to the next race already.

[Podkrecony_Ziutek]

In real life those cars had rolling starts, so why wouldn't we have them too? It's really not so difficult

[Hristo Itchov]

In real life those cars had rolling starts, so why wouldn't we have them too? It's really not so difficult

In real life they also raced much longer than we do, so there is no need to push right from the start and drive on the edge. We'll never have anything close to endurance races, so why bother complicating things? As Blito says, it takes just one driver to mess things up and affect the race for many others before it has even started.

[G Jonsson]

The car values were based upon the supposed reliabilty factor of the cars and this has not quite worked as I was expecting with Lolas and Chapps surviving races where frankly I expected them to suffer.

I think, as H pointed out, that the surviving of the Lolas and Chapps id due to how we treat them.
At the first race at Silvestone it took me a little more than one lap to blow my Lola engine. After that I took it very easy with it for the rest of the race and managed to bring it home but my lap times were like 2-3 sec off my pace. In Mexico I managed to keep it going all race by the same strategy from the start and at Reims I allmost made it but had trouble because of shifter problems that made me overrev from time to time when I found myself out of gear.

How H manage to keep the Chapp in one piece is a mystery to me because before this series I raced the Chapp in some fun races and never made it last very long. So I really think that the way you treat the car is crucially. That said Fulvio managed to blow the Ferrari engine on the Reims starting line, and the Ferrari supposed to be very reliable so I guess luck has some input as well in this, if not his revving on the line was the cause of it.

In the matter of rolling start I am quite OK with it allthough I do not prefere it and do not expect it to reduce the T1 incidents that much. I have had some experience from the AusGPL but then it was on the Daytona oval. We lined up in one row, the leader, me, drove a steady pace and we were not allowed to get on the gas until we passed the S/F line. It worked out well and one good thing about it is that you will not likely get any blow ups and sidesways cars on the grid.

Pro or Ini? well in principal I prefer pro, but the one shift-r has served me well in this series so, well, hummm. One thing though is that I hear people think that to practice for a race and then being out early make the practice a wast of time. How can practice be a waste of time? You must have gained some experience and you also might have a PB for the GPLRank.

Overall I like the team stuff, must of cause be because of the results so far, but the strategy involved is nice I think.

Göran

[Podkrecony_Ziutek]

In real life they also raced much longer than we do, so there is no need to push right from the start and drive on the edge. We'll never have anything close to endurance races, so why bother complicating things?

Why not? We could have an endurance division, maybe not with 24h races, but something between 1,5h-3h races is possible. Something like this: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8838.msg157863#msg157863

As Blito says, it takes just one driver to mess things up and affect the race for many others before it has even started.

It doesn't matter if we have rolling or GP start, it is allways possible that someone will made a mistake and start a carnage;)

The car values were based upon the supposed reliabilty factor of the cars and this has not quite worked as I was expecting with Lolas and Chapps surviving races where frankly I expected them to suffer.

Could this be because we don't race on pro and on int. cars are harder to destroy?

How H manage to keep the Chapp in one piece is a mystery to me because before this series I raced the Chapp in some fun races and never made it last very long.

Hmm, In my hands Chaparral is a lot more reliable than Lola.