Season 21 - Rule Changes

[vosblod]

The Registration threads and details for the new season will be posted asap. In the meantime we have made some changes to the rules which you can find on our Rules pages;

New Rules regarding Corner Cutting and changes to existing penalties for Railriding;
https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/penalties
https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/railriding

Amended rules regarding Persistent Bad Driving;
https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/penalties
https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/league

Amended rule regarding the option to Appeal;
https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/league

The points scoring system has also been revised as follows;
50, 45, 40, 36, 32, 28, 25, 22, 19, 17, 15, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6

Compulsory stops following a reset will apply in ALL intermediate divisions and lap one will receive full moderation across ALL divisions.

[Hristo Itchov]

Maybe I missed it, but couldn't see anywhere a definition of "track surface" in relation to the corner cutting rules. Does it include kerbs or not, is it defined by white lines or grass edges, etc. ?

Also, as was the case with Adelaide, when do you ignore applying this rule to certain tracks, such as some corner exits or entry. As I see it, it mostly includes cutting through the inside of corners, beyond the apex, whether it's a single corner or a chicane/series of corners.

Oh and if I may, I don't like the revised points system. In reality (real racing) they attempt to make podium places have much more weight, so a win really means a win, and prevent someone winning championships by just getting a string of top 5 finishes, without even going for the win. I'm a bit disappointed this was decided without any discussion or voting whatsoever, and without any hint that it's going to happen.   We're going the Nascar way...

[Syd Drake]

Got to agree with Hristo there, I too am disappointed in the new points system. Devaluing wins on one end, and not everyone needs to score on the other.

[EvilClive]

Perhaps I can answer some of these points.

  1)  I think by definition "corner cutting" has by definition, to refer to the inside of any bend and the general rule that "two wheels must stay on the tarmac at all times" really determines how much kerb or grass you may take.
Running wide at the exit is not cutting the corner and is more likely to lose you time, so will not attract a penalty.

I think this rule introduction was prompted by one or two specific incidents during last season where car(s) were observed repeatedly cutting corners and gaining an advantage. There was nothing that really covered it within the existing guidelines, so the mods felt that we should make sure that drivers knew it was unacceptable.

2) The change to the points system has come about because the mods discovered that there was an imbalance in the way that points were allocated.
Yes indeed, the winner and the podium finishers should be rewarded for their efforts, but if you look back at last seasons results it becomes clear that the winner of the championship could be narrowed down to a couple of candidates by half way through the season.

Under the old system a driver could take 2 wins and 3 DNF's and gain a total of 100 points, whereas it would take 5 finishes in 4th place (that would be quite respectable for any driver I think!!) to gain the same number of points.
You might say that was fair, but when we come to the end of the season and we drop 2 worst results one driver retains 100 points and the other loses 40!!
This was seen as penalising the consistant driver unfairly.

The intention with this change is to keep the competition for the championship closer and more keenly fought throughout the season. The faster drivers will still come out on top I am sure, but they just might be looking over their shoulder towards the end of the season at those nipping at their heels.
The current points allocation allows a driver to be faster at just a few tracks and build an unassailable lead very quickly and then totally flunk at more circuits than he excels at. The new system should reward the "best" driver across the whole season and all tracks.

After all is said and done, you still have to finish in front of the opposition to win the title and the new system does not change that.

[Syd Drake]

Under the old system a driver could take 2 wins and 3 DNF's and gain a total of 100 points, whereas it would take 5 finishes in 4th place (that would be quite respectable for any driver I think!!) to gain the same number of points.
You might say that was fair, but when we come to the end of the season and we drop 2 worst results one driver retains 100 points and the other loses 40!!

Actually simpler thing to do would be no dropping of results. If you want to win by consistency you have to show up for all the races anyway.And I still consider the best driver the one who wins the most races and such driver deserves any kind of lead and subsequent potential relaxation that comes with it.

[happyal]

I think that the rules are clear, there doesn’t seem to be much difference. Anything that’s been added I seem to remember it’s been discussed in the race threads as and when they have come up. It won’t affect the way I drive at all, and if it does affect you then I think this is the best place to discus it before the season starts so it can be looked at again.

I like the new points system too, it gives people lower down the field a chance of collecting more points. It’ll help motivate me too, when I see my effort being rewarded with more points. Nothing worse that practicing for a week, getting ready, qualify and race for the best part of 2 hours, finish 15th and don’t get any points at all.

[Hristo Itchov]

So what would motivate me to push for the win if the car behind is going to score just 5 points less? It's an overkill and becomes totally unnecessary. It puts emphasis on just cruising home instead of fighting for positions. Winning becomes almost meaningless. You end up in a situation where risking to get the win for those extra 5 points is not justified at all, because a single mistake and you can end up taking zero instead.

What exactly is wrong with the fastest drivers getting a decent points lead, it sounds completely logical to me. With this new point system, you have to miss just a single race or two, suffer a screen freeze, get taken out just once or disconnect, to potentially drop enough points which you most likely won't manage to recover, even if you win all the remaining races... I sense a lot of frustration coming from this and we'll see a championship decided not on being the best, but just driving safely to the finish. Oh, the excitement...   Are we running F1 racing or endurance-type of racing where you don't have to drive fast? I don't know what's going on in UKGPL of late, but some decisions are putting me off with their lack of justification and sticking to what worked for years.

Heck, we never EVER discussed points or seen anyone complain about it. Why not run a poll on the points system and see what drivers think?

[EvilClive]

The dropping of 2 results has always been there so that people with other things in their lives ( holidays, work commitments and family commitments etc) can still race with a chance of glory. I think it would be a bit much to say you have to arrange your life in the real world to ensure that you are available for every race?

The incentive to push for the win is still there in F1 today with a much smaller points difference. To win the championship in either F1 or UKGPL you still need to score more points than the competition and finish in front of your competitors more often than they finish in front of you. Which is surely what racing is all about?

 Hristo asks why he should push for a win to "only" gain 5 extra points, well if the guy in front is on similar points in the championship to yourself, then getting in front of him makes a 10 point difference at the end of the race ( 5 less for him, 5 more for you).


A mistake/screen freeze/disco that takes you out of the race under the new system is likely to cost you less in points differential than the old system.
If you were leading a race under the old system and disco'd/crashed, you lose 50 points for the win you might have expected and maybe pick up 4 for being ranked as 11th finisher .
Under the new points system you would lose 50 but be awarded 15 for a similar 11th place.

The only way that intended change should affect the top of the table drivers, is by keeping the competition alive right through the season. Under the old scoring winning 5 races would indeed allow a driver to "cruise" the remaining races, relying on his 250 points, just shadowing his nearest competitors.
That is unlikely to happen under the proposed change, and drivers will have to maintain their "edge" right through the season. Unless of course someone is dominant enough to win the majority of races..in which case they are rightly proven to be the top driver.

Where it should have a greater effect, is in the midfield where they should find themselves much closer together at the end of the season.

[Syd Drake]

The incentive to push for the win is still there in F1 today with a much smaller points difference.

Actually in F1 you get half as many points (25) for the win, with a bigger difference to second place (7). In F1 second place gets 72% of the points of the winner, in this new scoring it's 90%.

The dropping of 2 results has always been there so that people with other things in their lives ( holidays, work commitments and family commitments etc) can still race with a chance of glory.

And any consistency argument has to go along with attending all races. If you do 8 races of lower results you won't be catching someone with 8 races of better results.

[Hristo Itchov]

You're wrong about F1, Evil. It was exactly because the difference was too small (10 to 8 ) that it was changed to something which puts a lot more weight on actually going for the win and the top 3 places. It was after Button took the title by simply finishing in top 5 for the 2nd half of the 2009 season, as well as other examples in the past years.

5 points difference when the winner takes 50 is really nothing. It's like a 10-9-8 system...

And what do you mean that a screen freeze etc. would cost you less points? We're introducing minimum distance coverage for you to score points, so you won't score anything at all if you retire. Think about this very possible and realistic example:

You retire from 1 race and your direct competitor wins, thus he leads you by 50 points now. Let's say you win the next 8 races (very unrealistic, but still) and your direct competitor finishes 2nd in all of them. You'll still be 10 points short of closing the gap, while with the previous system it only takes 5 races to be 9 points short.

I'm sorry, but this intention to make it better for back of the field runners while making it worse for those who fight for victory is really bad, no matter how you look at it. It stimulates cruising and driving safe, and not fighting for victory.

[miner2049er]

You retire from 1 race and your direct competitor wins, thus he leads you by 50 points now. Let's say you win the next 8 races (very unrealistic, but still) and your direct competitor finishes 2nd in all of them. You'll still be 10 points short of closing the gap

Actually, with dropped results you would win the championship by 35 points.

[BadBlood]

So what would motivate me to push for the win if the car behind is going to score just 5 points less?

Maybe this will promote safer driving and less crashes?

What exactly is wrong with the fastest drivers getting a decent points lead...

Nothing but if the gap gets too wide too early whats the point in racing the later races? If you try the new system against previous seasons the outcome is remarkably similar but the season(s) would have gone to the wire - nothing could be over by eight races in...

In addition, it may well favour the slower drivers but I am not expecting 50 points anytime soon but I am expecting to be able to fight for a better position right to the last race, which, believe it or not, is still important in 14th place!

[Hristo Itchov]

You retire from 1 race and your direct competitor wins, thus he leads you by 50 points now. Let's say you win the next 8 races (very unrealistic, but still) and your direct competitor finishes 2nd in all of them. You'll still be 10 points short of closing the gap

Actually, with dropped results you would win the championship by 35 points.

I ignored the dropped results on purpose, since it makes it even worse lol. It's worse enough without that.  

Paul, are you telling me that someone who doesn't take as much risk as someone else, doesn't "go for it", doesn't give as much effort, deserves to win, just through sheer luck and by cruising to the finish in every race? What do we call "racing" if not the urge to compete and to do your best, to push to the limit? This point system kills the racing element to a large degree.

And BTW, are you saying that those on top are driving unsafely? I didn't mean in the sense of causing accidents by hitting others, but by going to the limit purely in your driving, in pushing the car, in extracting its maximum and compensating for any handicaps. Now once someone takes a proper lead in the Championship, they don't have to do that anymore. I.e. if I lead by 50 points over Tim after the first race, he's just about done for, even if I just cruise for 2nd or 3rd in all of the remaining races.

The only way this system can work is if ALL the drivers in a division are lapping at the same pace. This is not the case here. And even then, as I said, it kills it for anyone who is unfortunate enough to retire for whatever reason.

[BadBlood]

If you can cruise to second then you deserve to win the championship 

I accept that the new scoring system makes it harder for the top guys but surely you don't want it on a plate?

What I am suggesting is that it may stop somebody taking silly risks because the gain is so large. This also applies all the way through the field. I support the new system because on balance it rewards more drivers than it punishes.

I also slightly resent the implication that I am not trying as hard as you or that I am not competetive. My times may not be competetive but my instincts are! I want to win every race that I join but I accept that I am not as skilful. I may not know how to drive the car 'on the limit' to produce world records but my performance envelope means that I have to either drive:
a) within my limits, such as they are
b) risk losing it all by pushing beyond my capabilities

There is no benefit to approach a) at the moment for a backmarker. Under the new system there is. Ergo safer driving is encouraged amongst the backmarkers. Surely the art of racing is not pushing to the limit and beyond but being able to judge when you have reached the limit and stay there.

[Fragfritz]

Might be worth cobbling together a spreadsheet of the last couple of seasons and apply both points systems to them to see the results race over race. Then both sides can argue the facts rather than their opinions. As back marker, I'm with Badblood, it is nice to get some points for finishing a race.