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  • S21GT Mont-Tremblant: May 01, 2011
May 01, 2011, 10:32:03 PM +0100 - Mont-Tremblant - UKGPL Season 21 (2011) GT
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
FullMetalGasket
 Orange GT
Ferrari 330/P4 GT 1967 1 1:40.497
94.915mph
1 51:47.395
92.090mph
30 1:40.885
94.549mph
Firestone  
Samb
 Blue GT
Lola T70 MkIII GT 1967 3 +1.349
93.657mph
2 +29.757
91.216mph
30 1:42.280
93.260mph
Goodyear  
EvilClive
 Red GT
Chaparral Mk2F GT 1967 2 +0.579
94.371mph
3 +35.605
91.046mph
30 1:42.500
93.060mph
Firestone  
jhalli
 Grey GT
Mirage M1 GT 1967 5 +2.088
92.983mph
4 +1:04.218
90.225mph
30 1:42.373
93.175mph
Firestone  
Dave Randall
 Orange GT
Chaparral Mk2D GT 1967 4 +1.476
93.541mph
5 +1:13.057
89.974mph
30 1:42.925
92.675mph
Firestone  
Hristo Itchov
 Red GT
Mirage M1 GT 1967 7 +2.237
92.848mph
6 +1:35.713
89.338mph
30 1:41.907
93.601mph
Firestone  
Cookie
 Green GT
Chaparral Mk2F GT 1967 8 +3.556
91.671mph
7 +1:38.877
89.250mph
30 1:44.067
91.658mph
Firestone  
fpolicardi
 Blue GT
Chaparral Mk2F GT 1967 6 +2.133
92.942mph
8 +1L
88.221mph
29 1:42.963
92.641mph
Firestone  
Phil Thornton
 Green GT
Mirage M1 GT 1967 9 +5.221
90.227mph
9 +53.586
86.739mph
29 1:47.084
89.076mph
Firestone  
b_1_rd
 Grey GT
Chaparral Mk2D GT 1967 11 +6.214
89.387mph
10 +2L
85.885mph
28 1:46.931
89.204mph
Firestone  
happyal
 Blue GT
Mirage M1 GT 1967 14 +10.813
85.694mph
11 +3L
81.544mph
27 1:50.820
86.073mph
Firestone  
BadBlood
 Red GT
Porsche 910 GT 1967 12 +8.898
87.194mph
12 (+3) +1:27.721
79.341mph
27 1:51.162
85.808mph
Dunlop  
blito
 Green GT
Ferrari 330/P4 GT 1967 10 +5.696
89.823mph
13 +4L
86.560mph
26 1:46.098
89.904mph
Disco
Firestone  
Nigel Smith
 Orange GT
Ford GT40 MkIIB GT 1967 15 +13.037
84.016mph
14 +4:03.280
79.786mph
26 1:50.408
86.394mph
Goodyear  
vosblod
 Grey GT
Ford GT40 MkI GT 1967 13 +10.158
86.201mph
15 +23L
78.095mph
7 1:53.014
84.402mph
accident
Goodyear  
2 UKGPL_T7
 
Porsche 910 GT 1967 16 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

This was the first race of our season 21 GT series and the standard of driving was generally quite high, and the rolling start went well
( well, almost well!! see below )

Moderator's comments.

1) Because we are using rolling starts in these races it is important to be sure exactly where you should be when the grid is formed. A quick check to be sure whose car you should be following on the warm up lap is easy, and will automatically solve any glitches with a staggered grid that is not quite perfect in future races.

2) The GT's present a real problem with their lack of decent mirrors and a couple of the incidents in this race were partially down to that fact. I would ask all drivers to bear this in mind in future races.

It was heartwarming to see that almost everyone who took a Shift-R also called at the pits.
What was not quite so warming, was that not all drivers took the 10 second stop stipulated in the rules!!
So, there are some time penalties to be added to a few drivers finishing places.

Hristo was stopped for only 1 second, so attracts a 9x3 = 27 second penalty .

Paul was forced to make a pitstop after his contact with Dave Randall on his last lap but in his eagerness to cross the line ahead of Nigel was stopped for only 8 secs, so attracts a 2x3 = 6second penalty.

Update...........stewards are investigating Tim Vos for completely missing a pitstop.................................. However as he quit, when he realised his ommission, and finished last, he only gets a warning that his future conduct will be scutinised. :o)


Server replay time: 0h02m00s

As Paul has pointed out, Tim should technically not have been in front of him at that point as he had "jumped" a place in the rolling start. Not exactly an excuse to rear end someone, but I suppose he has a point?
In Tim's defence, I think there was a fault with the staggered grid positions , because there is no stagger between Paul and Tim's slots when they line up. They are side by side and Tim might just ( only just!!) be forgiven for simply following the car ( that he could see) in front. BUT!! it would also be reasonable for Tim to KNOW that he qualified behind Paul and be looking for the tail of his Porsche as he moved off the grid?

Vos loses pace at the crest on T1, is consequently slow down the hill and brakes quite early and conservatively for the esses complex. Paul is watching Vos's problems from behind and makes a clean run through T1 carrying more speed. Paul is closing quickly upon Tim at the bottom of the hill and Tim is quite justified in being in the middle of the road. I think Paul might have judged his closing speed and available tarmac a little better. There was a good possibility of making a clean pass down the inside given his greater speed and the better braking of the Porsche? Instead he caught the rear corner of Tim's Ford and spun both cars out.


Server replay time: 0h02m20s

As a result of his contact with Tim Vos entering T2, Paul' Porsche is on the grass and plainly lacking any traction or meaningful directional control. He crosses the track at T2 and is now on the grassy infield trying to get back to the tarmac at T3 via the scenic route.
Whilst Paul and Tim are having their country dancing lessons, Al Baldwin cruises through in his Mirage passing the stricken Tim and avoiding the Porsche crossing the track at T2. However Paul has not given up his chance to cause more mayhem and flashes across the nose of Al's car at T3.
Al might have thought that he had succesfully avoided all of this carnage and lines up his exit from T3, probably quite happy to have picked up 2 places within 200 mtrs.
However, Paul somehow gets enough traction in his Porsche to perform a "U" turn on the outside edge of the track and turns back to produce the perfect road block directly in front of Al who is knocked into a spin.
In the recovering mayhem, Paul manages to perform a half donut in an attempt to get his car facing in the right direction, but only succeeds in hitting the innocent Mr Baldwin again!!??.
I think given his strenuous efforts to obtain this penalty, it would be unfair not to give Paul something!! The initial contact with Tim was a small lapse of judgement and mitigated by the fact that Tim should not really have been there.
However, the Blatant Bad Rejoin(s) inflicted upon Al is deserving of recognition.


Server replay time: 0h08m35s

Hristo makes pit stop after Shift-R but fails to wait 10 seconds
The rules state that all stops after a Shift-R require a 10 second stop in the pit lane.
For each second that the pitstop is under 10 seconds the driver will be penalised x 3.
Only 1 second stationary = 9 seconds short. 9 x 3 = 27 second penalty.


Server replay time: 0h34m28s

The following incident was not reported but is worthy of mention I feel.

34:28 Hristo and Fulvio.

Fulvio is catching Nigel to lap him in his 2F and Hristo is close behind in his Mirage. On the exit of the sharp right after the bridge Fulvio has a slow exit because he is behind Nigel. On the run up to the final turn the extra grunt of Fulvio's 2F powers him past Nigel who has kept to the right hand side. Hristo has taken advantage of the slow exit and is carrying more speed. He also dives past Nigel on the first of gentle right hand curves and finds that Fulvio has run out to the left hand side of the track leaving the door wide open for the inside line on the second right flick. Fulvio is clearly unaware that Hristo is 75% alongside and moves across to his right.
Fulvio is spun out and blows his engine trying to recover forcing him to take Shift-R and a 10 second pitstop.

The poor rear vision in the GT's contributed to this incident. The last time Fulvio saw Hristo's Mirage in his mirror, it was 20+ metres behind him before Fulvio went past Nigel. He did not expect to make contact with a car when he moved to the right. In fact Fulvio might well have assumed that it was Nigel's car that he hit until he saw the replay.
I think this has to go down as a Racing Incident, but is a reminder to everyone that the rearward vision in these cars IS a problem and we need to exercise some caution on all sides

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h51m26s

Dave Randall has caught Paul and is about to lap him at the end of the long straight.
Paul, quite correctly, keeps his car on the outside of the track and off of the racing line, allowing Dave the line through the apex of the corner. Dave takes the right hander and both cars keep carefully to their own side of the track on the short straight to the next left.
Unfortunately, it appears that the poor rearward visibilty in the GT's contributed greatly to this incident. Paul was able to see Dave's car pass him and he could see that Dave would be able to sweep across and take the "racing line" through the left hander. But Dave could not be sure exactly where Paul's Porsche was as it was invisble in his mirrors ( The 2D is particularly poor in this department) and as a result he chooses to play safe and run around the outside of the left turn. This would have worked fine, if he had not put a rear wheel on the grass!! the resultant spin takes him directly across the path of Paul who is following him through the corner and they collide.
Dave recovers the track but loses a place to Hristo, and Paul is forced to perform a Shift-R.
Paul might have afforded Dave a little more space, but to force lapped drivers to make sure they can be seen in the mirrors of the faster car is an impossible ask I think
From Paul's point of view he had allowed Dave the racing line and had done nothing wrong. From Dave's perspective, he has lost a place in trying to pass a backmarker and had tried to make the pass safely without risking any contact and has also done nothing wrong ( except to put a whell on the grass)

Very unfortunate for both drivers, but I think a Racing Incident.

  • Racing incident


Server replay time: 0h52m17s

Badblood performs a shift-R on the last lap and duly goes into the pits to take his 10 second stop. Unfortunately he is only staionary for 8 seconds.
2 x 3 =6 second penalty

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
Grand Prix Legends
GT 1967
1:40.497
94.915mph
FullMetalGasket
Qualifying
Ferrari 330/P4May 01, 2011, 10:32:03 PM +0100
S21GT
Grand Prix Legends
GT 1967
1:40.885
94.549mph
FullMetalGasket
Race
Ferrari 330/P4May 01, 2011, 10:32:03 PM +0100
S21GT
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Author Topic: Season 21 GT Team Championship Round 1 St Jovite 1st May 2011  (Read 11767 times)
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maddog
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2011, 04:09:54 PM +0100 »

A rule that's used in some real world racing, regarding the regaining of grid position wile rolling towards the start is . . . if the rearward car has not been passed by all it's competitors, it's Ok to retake an original position.  But once dropped to last, it must remain last.  Trouble is, I forsee further confusion and anxiety, if this were attempted in GPL.  Seems to me anxiety ratings and incidents are already running high, thanks to rolling starts.  On the other hand, perhaps confusion adds back some of the excitement removed, when standing starts are removed.
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2011, 04:25:16 PM +0100 »

They have outside assistance in real racing such as radio communication, pit boards, hand and flag signals, and so on, so I also think it would be a bit too complicated to do in GPL. Also, I don't want to see someone returning ahead of their original position, LOL.
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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2011, 05:49:29 PM +0100 »

It seems to me that a sensible ruling here to avoid potential chaos on the rolling lap would be.....

Any driver who loses his position on the rolling lap, by going off, blowing his engine or through contact with another car ( regardless of fault) must rejoin at the back of the field.
Incidents on the rolling lap ( Lap 1) will be fully modded and anyone found to have caused another competitor to lose position through bad driving will be penalised appropriately.

I think this is the only way to handle this sensibly because,

a) If two cars are trying to regain their original grid positions as we are approaching the final bend we have the possibility of total confusion and chaos. Most people will be concentrating on the car directly in front and preparing to launch themselves off the last bend and probably taking a variety of lines through the bend to try and gain an advantage. The last thing they will be expecting is 2 cars to go zooming past at racing speed !!!
b) If the rolling starts are conducted properly and a 3-4 car length gap maintained at a steady pace, there really is no reason for anyone to lose their place. The only random element would be a GPL breakdown or blown engine. As a Shift-R to repair the engine would automatically leave you last and requiring a 10 second pitstop you are last anyway!
c) How can we be sure that a driver knows exactly where he should be in the rolling grid? what if the car that was in front of him also has a dumb moment? Now he has no marker and might travel too far up the grid.... I can see that making him very popular!!!

So, if you screw up on Lap 1 you rejoin at the rear of the field!
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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2011, 06:26:11 PM +0100 »

So I understand:

If you bump me out, I have to stay in grass until the last driver has passed me!?

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blito
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« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2011, 08:00:14 PM +0100 »

Lets not forget that Lap one is fully moderated so anyone *CAUSING* problems to other drivers on the rolling start will be punished!
So behave or feel the wrath of the all powerful Moderator!
Arkvoodle has spoken.
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« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2011, 08:34:04 PM +0100 »

So, if you screw up on Lap 1 you rejoin at the rear of the field!

I can't see how anybody could have a problem with that - never compromises my races Wink
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« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2011, 08:37:42 PM +0100 »

Practice server is up - UKGPL 3
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« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2011, 12:49:30 PM +0100 »

May I just suggest to put the date of the start in the announcement's topic title, just like all other announcements. Just spent a minute before figuring out which is this Sunday's race thread.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2011, 07:09:11 PM +0100 »

May I just suggest to put the date of the start in the announcement's topic title, just like all other announcements. Just spent a minute before figuring out which is this Sunday's race thread.  Roll Eyes
Sorry that would be me - when I merged the topics it didn't take the default race header...
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« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2011, 10:54:19 PM +0100 »

T7 server is ready set for a Int Long race of 30 laps, listening on Igor in Console session.
Ciao
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« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2011, 11:08:30 AM +0100 »

Thanks Fulvio.  Grin
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« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2011, 12:29:15 PM +0100 »

This is going to be a hard race I think. I don't seem to be able to adjust my driving style for these cars, leading to all sorts of unpleasant car behaviour. I've managed to dial-out some of the cars handling issues but until I dial-out my own driving issues I'm going to have a struggle on my hands.... best I can hope for is to drive to finish ands hope not to disgrace my Team Green colleagues... Go Greens!!
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« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2011, 12:39:32 PM +0100 »

Well - you are in the top ten in GPLRank - as am I <ahem>
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« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2011, 12:44:19 PM +0100 »

You are not alone Jason.

I too have found these GT's ( Porsche excepted) a very different challenge. In all of the other mods I seem to be able to get a setup/driving style that allows me to be relatively relaxed as I race with time to take in on what others are doing a few cars ahead and behind me.
But thus far in the GT's, I find that I am using all 3 of my brain cells fighting the car and the handling just to post average times and am concious that I am not aware of what is happening around me !!

So the plan is, to blitz away on the 1st lap and build a 10 second cushion to 2nd place so I don't have to worry about anything behind. Then I am relying on the whole field being fast enough to avoid being lapped. That way I can drive on my own without distraction  Grin  that is my plan!, others might not see it as their ideal race  Undecided
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« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2011, 01:04:28 PM +0100 »

The GTs can be made to handle similarly to the F1 cars, so that's what I strive for when tweaking my setup. That way you can apply your already developed driving style without having to adapt too much. The only thing I have to keep reminding myself of is to be careful under braking and corner entry as to avoid triggering the nasty wheel lock-up bug.
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