Season 21 - mid season review

[Cookie]

How about a silly idea where Novices can only drive BT7 and Coopers, mid level drivers can drive BRM, Honda, Cooper or BT7 and the Pro’s get a completely free choice. That way there is an incentive to move up and avoid going down (or maybe not, but like I said, it’s a silly idea).

Yes Al, not a silly idea!

Maybe not only the slowest cars but a kind of specs. Eg the Ferrari at Monza and the Cooper at Mosport...
Give the Novices for each track a different car to improve their skills.

When I started in novices series I never had tried a 65 before. I just took the Lotus as I was told its the best car.
But in Specs I learned to race the BRM and the Honda on the same track, what was a great eyeopener about their qualities.

For the higher classes I am totally with you.

About the penalties:

As long as I get 2 penalty points to a list, this does not really hurt.
But if those 2 points give me a handicap in the next grid, I will learn...
Give an extra 5 gal for each pp to the start of the next race!





 

[EvilClive]

Track allocations :

Several of the original 11 GP tracks, have had their races lumped together, this Season.  2 or 3 Divisions, racing on the same track, within just a few days.  We still have a spate at Spa, and then Zandvoort coming up.  I doubt there is a particular advantage to this, unless someone knows different?

Last Season, I suggested we take this approach to new tracks.  An objection by some, was that tracks are hard to learn.  By using them in 2 or 3 mods, we get our moneysworth - 'more wheelbanging for our Buck', as the Americans would say.  The fab. 11 are used often, so everyone should know their way around already.  Do we want them lumped next Season, or spaced out? 

I agree with Martin here. By all means, let us use the Papyrus tracks because they are so popular but this season I have found myself  thinking  "oh no! not ruddy xxxxxxx again" and even wondering if I really want to drive the same track for the 4th time in as many weeks.

Variety is the spice of life so lets sprinkle the tracks about a bit so that we get some respite from monotony? I know there are some members who enjoy the security of racing on well known Pappy tracks. But eventually everyone becomes more adept at learning new tracks and enjoying the challenge of taming a new stretch of tarmac.. and at least the scenery is different 

Maybe the longer and more complex add-on tracks can be reserved for the "PRO Divisions" as we used to in the days of the "Masters" here in UKGPL. I am not advocating 100% add-ons for the higher leagues, just maybe a few more new tracks than might be used in the Novices.

[Billy Nobrakes]

A couple of quick observations.
On grouping of races with different mods on the same track. This was introduced due to popoular request - because people has issues with learning different tracks. Personally I'm with Evil & Maddog & prefer to spread them around.
Introduction of a third grid for Novices. Sounds good & whilst we are likely to have enough registrations will there be enough drivers turn up regularly? The Nov's registration table is about 50% over sub-scribed but there's probably only be one or two races with a full grid. If attendances are going to be in single figures I'd prefer to run two grids.

[Hristo Itchov]

Track allocations :

Several of the original 11 GP tracks, have had their races lumped together, this Season.  2 or 3 Divisions, racing on the same track, within just a few days.  We still have a spate at Spa, and then Zandvoort coming up.  I doubt there is a particular advantage to this, unless someone knows different?

Last Season, I suggested we take this approach to new tracks.  An objection by some, was that tracks are hard to learn.  By using them in 2 or 3 mods, we get our moneysworth - 'more wheelbanging for our Buck', as the Americans would say.  The fab. 11 are used often, so everyone should know their way around already.  Do we want them lumped next Season, or spaced out?  

Very good point, I was already sick of the 4-5 Monza races we had in a row last season.

A couple of quick observations.
On grouping of races with different mods on the same track. This was introduced due to popoular request - because people has issues with learning different tracks. Personally I'm with Evil & Maddog & prefer to spread them around.
Introduction of a third grid for Novices. Sounds good & whilst we are likely to have enough registrations will there be enough drivers turn up regularly? The Nov's registration table is about 50% over sub-scribed but there's probably only be one or two races with a full grid. If attendances are going to be in single figures I'd prefer to run two grids.

As Martin pointed out, this was only asked for addon tracks, especially rarely used ones, so people can gain more experience on them and particularly if their main race comes after another 2-3, which they can enter to learn the track properly. It was never aimed for Papy tracks and nobody suggested we should do it with known tracks.

How about a silly idea where Novices can only drive BT7 and Coopers, mid level drivers can drive BRM, Honda, Cooper or BT7 and the Pro’s get a completely free choice. That way there is an incentive to move up and avoid going down (or maybe not, but like I said, it’s a silly idea).

For the higher classes I am totally with you.

I don't agree at all about Pro getting free choice - we'll all be racing BRMs and Lotuses if that happens...  

[BadBlood]

Strongly agree about the tracks - even I am bored with Monza.

Lump the new ones together by all means but seperate out the Papy tracks.

On the issue of an intermediate grid we have had the following attendances

Novices	Pros	Total	Average
14	10	24	8
17	13	30	10
15	12	27	9
15	13	28	9 ish
19	16	35	12 ish
18	12	30	10

Those wouldn't be bad grids but it might be quite variable between the divisions so you might end up with grids of, say, 10, 6 and 12. That is not necessarily a bad thing but the big grids in Novices have been fun BUT we have had a full grid and it would be a shame if we had to turn drivers away.

Personally I would like to have a registration for an intermediate grid and see how the numbers stack up for before committing.

[Hristo Itchov]

It's down to what people want, Paul - would you rather race with people at your level or run alone at the back, getting lapped by faster drivers? Having 3 divisions would equalize the performance, so you'd never notice the thinner grids - you'd be too busy racing those around you on equal terms. The only downside I see with it is if someone is making a video, as it would be noticeable that the grid is smaller, but IMO 10 is quite OK.

[vosblod]

You can lay the lumping of tracks together at my door. Feedback last time round was people didn't want a whole string of different tracks happening at the same time, I don't recall lots saying don't do that for Papy's but I might not have picked up on that. I'm happy to go with the majority - if you want them spread out leave a note here and we will do that.

As Martin pointed out, this was only asked for addon tracks, especially rarely used ones, so people can gain more experience on them and particularly if their main race comes after another 2-3, which they can enter to learn the track properly. It was never aimed for Papy tracks and nobody suggested we should do it with known tracks.

By virtue of them being add-on tracks it is unlikely to happen very often as each division mod picks their own so any duplication is purely by chance.

Personally I would like to have a registration for an intermediate grid and see how the numbers stack up for before committing.

If the current poll comes out in favor of three divisions that would be the intention. We won't run grids with silly numbers so it would ultimately come down to how many sign up.

[happyal]

Hello,

I made a mistake in voting for the seasons, I voted for:

Carry on fluidly without fixed seasons

But after reading it again I ment to vote for:

Full seasons to continue with breaks as proposed below

Is it possible to change my vote?

[vosblod]

Is it possible to change my vote?

It's locked but I'll make a manual note.

[BadBlood]

I agree that grids of 10 would be OK. I'm hoping for nine really slow newbies and then a few lonely races lapping people... 

Seriously though, ten + would be good, less than that starts to get a bit thin

[NHance]

I only do 65's & Novice class at that.
I would prefer a no handicap season but this time in Novices. It gives a chance to try all the cars if you stay a novice long enough. I went BT7 this season 'cos I was fed up of BT11 & only alternative was a Cooper. I'll probably go back to BT11 next time as the break has been good.
It could be that some faster novices prefer to remain in novices. They can handicap themselves if they wish. Auto promotion/relegation is an idea well worth considering. It would not be good if Nov's was so full that some missed a race whilst pro's grids seem to me to be smaller this season.
Some may prefer Novice racing because of the availability of ShiftR. NO NO NO honestly I'm not raising that again but I am serious. However it's up to those racing in Pro class. End of.
Norm H
 

[BadBlood]

1) Lap one modding - works well but is not having any effect on decreasing the number of incidents?
 
2) Scoring system - fine, better than previous?
 
3) 50% rule (Pro/Historics). A bit penalistic. disappointing when you have made say 40% slogging your guts out and then nowt Maybe 33%? I don't think it concentrates the mind in terms of making things safer but it can sometimes militate against racing. Not really fast enough to comment really. This is a rule for the Pros

4) Are things too heavily weighted against the following driver? Yes, but it just needs a tweak so that we have a rule base to penalise bad driving by the leader?

5) Any rule changes you would like to see? Yes. Clause to punish bad driving by the lead driver as above.

6) Moderating and the Appeals Process - is everyone happy with the moderating and appeals process? No - I'm doing too much Seriously, it is good, I think but it might be helpful to have a formal reviewer of a mod designated for each race so that you do not have to put out a general appeal for second opinions.

7) Handicapping - are we happy with the way things are currently working? Generally, yes but it occurs to me that in the Novices if we want to develop the drivers we could adopt the Historic handicapping where drivers are limited to a group of cars with free choice within the group. The higher up the championship, the tighter the group.

8 ) Rule confusion between divisions
Are all the different tweaks for different divisions confusing? Yes. Standard rule for Shift/R where allowed. Either 10 secs or SnG. I prefer 10 secs - might dissuade drivers from some of the rasher moves. And pigs might....

9) The divisions - fine. We need to think about how we fit in F2, 69, 69Xtra etc.

10) Tracks - just not good enough to comment objectively although I HATE Jarama

One last thing occurs to me and that is that we have a fairly static structure for the season. It might be possible to leave some gaps to have pick up races with these extra mods as non-championship events a la BREASTS but with moderation.

[miner2049er]

I went BT7 this season 'cos I was fed up of BT11 & only alternative was a Cooper. I'll probably go back to BT11 next time as the break has been good.

In theory if the top of the Novices division moved up, the whole Novices division could move up a group, so we may end up not having a Cooper troop initially.

[Cookie]

I was just looking at the graphical race report of the novices EastLondon race



Got an idea about handicapping...

To make a real picture of the drivers performance:

Start the season with two spec races, all in the same car.
To avoid self handicapping, give an extra bonus by eg double points.


 

[Hristo Itchov]

That would depend on a couple of factors, Axel, so it won't be as objective as you may think:

1) The type of track (fast, slow, wide, narrow, bumpy, smooth, etc.), how familiar are all drivers with it, how much they've prepared for the spec race.

2) The choice of spec car, how familiar are all drivers with it, how much it suits their driving style, do they have a setup they're comfortable with for that car.

3) For the race itself, was slipstream a big factor or not, have incidents happened during the race, were there innocent victims of incidents, did anyone suffer mechanical failures, were there outside factors such as lag, PC slow down, disconnects or screen freeze.

4) And of course - luck! It always plays a role.

If you want a good estimation of driving ability spread, you would need a lot more races to average from, so if you're to use such info, simply use the data gathered from the Spec races, whenever they ran 65 races. Of course, not all drivers entered that since it was introduced a few seasons ago, but it would be a lot more objective than what you propose.