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  • S21GrW Sandown: August 14, 2011
August 14, 2011, 10:10:47 PM +0100 - Sandown (1962-83) - UKGPL Season 21 (2011) Privateers (67)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Ronniepeterson
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P115 F1 1967 4 +0.496
101.950mph
1 52:18.077
98.428mph
44 1:09.314
101.276mph
Goodyear  
Rainier
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 1 1:08.360
102.690mph
2 +2.653
98.345mph
44 1:08.348
102.708mph
Goodyear  
maddog
 Antipasti Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 3 +0.319
102.213mph
3 +12.792
98.028mph
44 1:08.747
102.112mph
Goodyear  
b_1_rd
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P115 F1 1967 9 +3.702
97.414mph
4 +1L
95.088mph
43 1:09.762
100.626mph
Goodyear  
Michael Turner
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 7 +2.252
99.415mph
5 +2L
93.353mph
42 1:11.554
98.106mph
Firestone  
BadBlood
 HikiWazaRacing
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 11 +8.990
90.755mph
6 +5L
87.004mph
39 1:14.235
94.563mph
Disco
Firestone  
hannah
 
Honda RA300 F1 1967 10 +4.605
96.209mph
7 +6L
83.255mph
38 1:14.338
94.432mph
Disco
Firestone  
s2173
 
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 6 +1.369
100.674mph
8 (+5) +9L
90.440mph
35 1:10.816
99.128mph
Disco
Firestone  
miner2049er
 Clark-Hill Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 5 +0.774
101.540mph
9 +10L
95.711mph
34 1:09.401
101.150mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Ross Neilson
 Clark-Hill Racing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 2 +0.240
102.331mph
10 +24L
95.030mph
20 1:09.130
101.546mph
Disco
Firestone  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Cooper T81b (Maserati) F1 1967 8 +2.333
99.301mph
11 +43L
82.017mph
1 1:23.882
83.688mph
Disco
Firestone  
vosblod
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P115 F1 1967 13 12 +31.515
59.945mph
1 1:51.407
63.011mph
Disco
Goodyear  
2 UKGPL_T7
 
BRM P115 F1 1967 12 13 DNS ---
---
Goodyear  

Moderator's Report

A nice clean lap one and all drivers who reset took a Stop and Go.


Server replay time: 0h02m28s

Mike T clips a haybale, spins and ends up facing backwards on the grass. He then rejoins by doing a 360 across the track. Paul and Hannah are approaching and, Paul at least, can be clearly seen. Paul has to swerve to avoid him but does not go off. It does not look like Mike was attempting to rejoin straight onto the racing line so our rules have this;

"Inconsiderate Bad Rejoin: Penalty 1 Places
The rejoining driver was in full control but nevertheless drove straight back onto the track without leaving enough room for other cars. Contact was NOT made but other drivers had to take avoiding action."

However I am going to mitigate this down to a Warning purely because Mike does appear to make efforts to stay to the side and no major harm was done. He may well have decided there was enough room to rejoin without affecting the oncoming traffic but really should have waited for the cars to clear first.


Server replay time: 0h02m36s

After the above incident Paul and Hannah have passed Mike T when Paul clips a curb and spins. It all happens very quickly and Hannah does the correct thing and slows right down until the situation becomes clear. In the meantime Mike goes into the back of Hannah. Mike does not appear to slow very much and is travelling at much greater speed then Hannah at point of impact. He had time to see Paul going awry and should have slowed much more. According to the server replay the flagman is not waving yellows. This type of thing falls under the incident approach rules which have this;

"Avoidable Lack of Care: Typical Caution
The yellow flags were difficult to see. The approaching driver was unsighted because of circuit topography, other cars or bandwidth limitations (i.e. number of cars that are visible). The cars from the incident were resetting or driving unpredictably. The approaching driver slowed down but contact was made with the cars from the incident."

Whilst the yellow flags were not shown I feel a Caution is more appropriate then the next level down to reflect the fact that, notwithstanding flags, Mike could have been more cautious and slowed more then he did. It also reflects the fact that Hannah was not at fault here. Hannah, whilst not spinning, can be considered part of the incident as he had to slow.


Server replay time: 0h07m23s

At 6m54s Ross takes a solo spin finding himself facing backwards. He then drives backwards for a distance, possibly to put himself in the position of rejoining on a straight rather then a corner. Ross then goes to rejoin, but appears to struggle, and by 7m23s is spreadeagled across the track. In the meantime Hannah has come upon the incident and slows to get round Ross. Whilst doing this he is hit by Sky. There are really two aspects to look at here;

1) Is Ross to be penalised for the Rejoin? Well he actually does his best to rejoin safely although the whole process is somewhat convoluted and takes nearly 30 seconds. When he finds himself across the track and realises cars are approaching he does the right thing and waits to allow some predictability for cars trying to avoid him. The actual coming together between Hannah and Sky may be a consequence of the rejoin but is not caused by the rejoin. Accordingly I cannot find fault in what Ross did excepting, in those circumstances, perhaps a reset might have been a much simpler option. However that is easy to say with hindsight.

2) Hannah and Sky's coming together; approaching the corner the flagman is clearly waving yellows. Hannah does the right thing and slows right down to be on the safe side. He rounds the corner, see's Ross and moves right to go round him. At this point he is hit in the rear by Sky. Sky can see the yellow flag too and obviously slows to make the corner BUT when he rounds onto the straight, where he can clearly see a stricken Ross with Hannah approaching, he actually accelerates. It is not for me to put myself in Sky's mind but, perhaps, he decided there was a potential gap to make a place on Hannah. The reason is irrelevant as the fact is, despite warning flags and seeing a car lobstered across the track with another car clearly attempting to go round, instead of slowing he goes faster. That is much more serious then the incident at 2m36s. Our incident approach rules have this;

"Total Lack of Care: Penalty 3 Places
The yellow flags were clearly visible. The cars and debris from the incident were clearly visible. The cars from the incident were either stationary or moving very slowly. The approaching driver made no attempt to slow down and contact was made with the cars from the incident."
The 'incident' in this case is Ross spreadeagled and stationary across the track. Again Hannah, whilst not spinning, can be considered part of the incident as he had to slow.

The next penalty down, Blatant, would only apply if Ross had been moving. The speeding up towards an incident really means only the most severe penalty can apply.

Special mention must also go to Dave Rainier, the first driver to come across Ross having a wobbly, who did a textbook manouvre to safely avoid him. A great lesson in evasive driving.

August 14, 2011, 10:57:10 PM +0100 - Sandown (1962-83) - UKGPL Season 21 (2011) Works (67)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Hristo Itchov
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 1 1:05.358
107.417mph
1 48:53.580
105.300mph
44 1:05.618
106.992mph
Firestone  
Beefpie
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 2 +0.118
107.224mph
2 +2.620
105.206mph
44 1:05.824
106.657mph
Goodyear  
Baab
 
Lotus 49 (Cosworth) F1 1967 3 +0.900
105.958mph
3 +1L
103.552mph
43 1:06.426
105.690mph
Firestone  
Samb
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 5 +2.117
104.047mph
4 +51.589
101.752mph
43 1:07.705
103.694mph
Goodyear  
fpolicardi
 Team7
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 7 +3.876
101.404mph
5 +3L
95.888mph
41 1:09.169
101.499mph
Goodyear  
Arf Arf Arf
 
Ferrari 312 (1967) F1 1967 4 +1.823
104.503mph
6 +37L
99.802mph
7 1:08.474
102.529mph
Disco
Firestone  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Honda RA300 F1 1967 6 +2.448
103.539mph
7 +38L
99.423mph
6 1:08.216
102.917mph
Disco
Firestone  
john roberts
 
Brabham BT24 (Repco) F1 1967 8 +8.169
95.483mph
8 +42L
90.280mph
2 1:13.241
95.856mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Gpg UKGPL
 
BRM P115 F1 1967 9 9 DNS ---
---
Goodyear  

Moderator's Report

A moderators dream; nice and clean lap one and no reported incidents. Keep these coming...

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
Grand Prix Legends
F1 1967
1:05.358
107.407mph
Hristo Itchov
Qualifying
Honda RA300August 14, 2011, 10:57:10 PM +0100
S21GrW
Grand Prix Legends
F1 1967
1:05.618
106.981mph
Hristo Itchov
Race
Honda RA300August 14, 2011, 10:57:10 PM +0100
S21GrW
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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 21 (2011) Works (67) - Sandown 68 - Aug 14  (Read 10652 times)
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Ross Neilson
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« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2011, 01:43:05 PM +0100 »

Yes well done Ronnie on the win, and (I think) the title too!  clap
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bernie
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« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2011, 02:24:53 PM +0100 »

Big hangover form a weekend of a different kind of racing around the irish sea for me .

Lack of practise plus the change of pace from "round the cans yacht racing" to "Aussy haybailing" left me floundering for a decent qually lap , changed a few things and made a 1m10'ish which felt good for the Coop thought not good for the grid but hoped to do well in the race .

The Coop on race fuel was a different animal to that of qually (felt more like a canal barge than a racer ), but  I knew it would improve when the rubber bits came up to temperature , however I pushed too hard too soon in my efforts to keep up , lost track of the track and found myself trying to impregnate one of those impregnable haybails (some kind of WW2 surplus tank trap ) left lying around to make sure that GPL  never gets too boring for the spectators .

Clean forgot the S/R rule (again) and had already hit the Esc key to retire from what could have been a good race for me and the Soggies (Sorry Mike )

Did like this track a lot , thought it was interesting and challenging to drive, but that it would need lots more practise from me to find the best lines and corner apex points to get those really good laps .

Grats to the Pods , to Ronnie for the title , and to all who finished .  
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 02:26:53 PM +0100 by bernie » Logged
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« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2011, 03:07:00 PM +0100 »

It is interesting what constitutes a good track. The racing was close for sure but when you are as slow as I am (and 1:14 represented a four second improvement from practice!) you spend most of your time looking in the mirrors and practising getting off the apex! Wider tracks are so much easier to let people past on. It was really hard to find places to let leaders past without compromising your lap by three or four seconds.

I guess I'll know I've improved when I start to look forward more than back...
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BadBlood

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Ronniepeterson
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« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2011, 03:39:45 PM +0100 »

I know I won but it was a great race with some very close racing throughout. Dave and Martin probably deserved better but I like to think I drove well enough to deserve this one as well.

Yeah the title challenge is looking good but its not over yet (wait for the moderation Ross you may have done better than you think).

Really liked the track. Tight, narrow, hard to pass but produced some great battles in particular with Martin and Dave who never gave me a moments rest once I took the lead.

Grats to Paul as well, 6th and a 1.14. That must constitute a good nights work mate.

Roll on Spa!
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miner2049er
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« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2011, 03:40:32 PM +0100 »

I guess I'll know I've improved when I start to look forward more than back...

I suppose that depends which way your car is facing......  Grin Grin Grin
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BadBlood
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« Reply #65 on: August 15, 2011, 05:25:22 PM +0100 »

LOL  Grin

I dont think I should find that very funny  Angry

But I do...  Cheesy
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BadBlood

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bernie
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« Reply #66 on: August 15, 2011, 07:07:14 PM +0100 »

My Advice

Quit worrying about being a back marker and get on with your own race , the faster boys will find there own way past when they have to . IMO  No major deviation from the racing line or sudden moves is the way to go !

Some of my best friends are well known backmarkers  Wink

 
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BadBlood
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« Reply #67 on: August 15, 2011, 08:18:37 PM +0100 »

Sage words Bernie

Mind you if I could avoid deviating from the line I might not be such a backmarker  Grin

Main thing is I am getting some racing whereas last season it was lonely out the back...
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BadBlood

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« Reply #68 on: August 15, 2011, 09:11:14 PM +0100 »

Sage words Bernie

Mind you if I could avoid deviating from the line I might not be such a backmarker  Grin

Main thing is I am getting some racing whereas last season it was lonely out the back...

Leaps and bounds Paul , leaps and bounds .

I vividly remember how long it took me to get familiar with Mosspot , literaly hated the place , the off camber blind downhill left , the stupidly fast approach to the hairpin , lemming leap etc.

I was almost neg at the ring but was still way off with mossy .

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s2173
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« Reply #69 on: August 15, 2011, 10:04:40 PM +0100 »

Well, I made total mess out if that one... Il probably get 50 penalty points for it. Car vas never behaving propetly, tyres didnt want to heat up at all, and grip was different from lap to lap... lots of hillarious moments, that are probably my fault, but whatever... first, I was passing hannah, and he went to left, but then saw someone crashed near the wall and swerved right into me... after that i was passing hannah again, at the long straight before the left/right corners, missed my braking point and engaged in crazy drift, passing hannah and scraping his tyre walls...not sure if he survived, i did. And seems i was causing troubles for lappers too... At the straight before that tricky bridge chicane, I saw a blue flag and slowed, going to the left, but noone passed me, probably messing his exit. I slowed even more, but he still couldnt catch me...and then the straight was over, i was way to the left, and whoever was the overlapper came with full steam aiming at rear end of my car. Add to that numerious spins and crashes and you get the picture...
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bernie
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« Reply #70 on: August 15, 2011, 10:54:31 PM +0100 »

Well, I made total mess out if that one... Il probably get 50 penalty points for it. Car vas never behaving propetly, tyres didnt want to heat up at all, and grip was different from lap to lap... lots of hillarious moments, that are probably my fault, but whatever... first, I was passing hannah, and he went to left, but then saw someone crashed near the wall and swerved right into me... after that i was passing hannah again, at the long straight before the left/right corners, missed my braking point and engaged in crazy drift, passing hannah and scraping his tyre walls...not sure if he survived, i did. And seems i was causing troubles for lappers too... At the straight before that tricky bridge chicane, I saw a blue flag and slowed, going to the left, but noone passed me, probably messing his exit. I slowed even more, but he still couldnt catch me...and then the straight was over, i was way to the left, and whoever was the overlapper came with full steam aiming at rear end of my car. Add to that numerious spins and crashes and you get the picture...



You probably will get your radio licence endorsed  Grin
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« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2011, 10:06:23 PM +0100 »

Moderation now published
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s2173
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« Reply #72 on: August 23, 2011, 09:17:38 AM +0100 »

Hm... I agree with penalty points, but they were given for tottaly the wrong reasons... From all the messes i made in the race, i get penalized for the one I have least fault for? And I wasnt even truyng to overtake hannah, because he was 2 laps down at that point. He slowed for me to pass him, what I tryed to do... whatever.
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Ross Neilson
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« Reply #73 on: August 23, 2011, 09:28:49 AM +0100 »

Sky, I think Hannah slowed to go around my car, rather than to let you by.

The reason you weren't punished for our incident later in the race is that I chose not to report it. Lap one is fully moderated in Privateers, as it is in all series here at UKGPL. Other than that the moderator will only look at reported incidents. The only exception is Novices which for which the whole race is moderated.

I realise you are annoyed to receive a penalty but hopefully you can understand the reasons behind it. See you at Spa on Sunday.
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« Reply #74 on: August 23, 2011, 09:48:43 AM +0100 »

I think he was more annoyed by the fact that it was viewed as if he was passing Hannah for a position, therefore defining untrue motives for his maneuver, instead of simply because he was lapping a backmarker. It's like he was being accused for taking advantage of a yellow flag zone to gain a position when apparently that wasn't the case.
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