UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Formula 2 Trophy - Jarama - Mar 17

[Boggy]

As I asked before when the word "may" is used what would be the circumstances when one of the top three drivers "may not" be assigned a slower car?

Boggy

[Ronniepeterson]

What is the problem here. The rules were and are plain for all to see. If the moderator wants to handicap you he can, whoever you are, whatever your lead in the championship, in whatever car he deems fit. For this season END OF STORY.

Last season the intermediates operated under similar rules and no one had a problem. Some people turned up for all the races and found themselves in a BT7 early on, some people chose to skip races to ensure a faster chassis for the season. Discretion was used by the moderator on more than one occasion (e.g. Cooper at Spa for the leader, any chassis for the final showdown). We all knew the rules and we all just got on with it.

I and a lot of other people I suspect don't really care if you don't like the rules this season. It sounds like people solely interested in winning and winning at any cost, even if it means trying to bend the rules when it suits them. The idea of changing the rules mid season on the hoof is simply ridiculous.

Try and remember that all the series provided by Paul and the rest of the UKGPL team are for the benefit of EVERYONE.

The mid season review will provide, as always, a forum for discussion on any changes for next season and rest assured I will be fighting the corner for a handicapping system in appropriate series that gives everyone a chance of winning and not just the fastest drivers.

[DLogan]

...If the moderator wants to handicap you he can, whoever you are, whatever your lead in the championship, in whatever car he deems fit. For this season END OF STORY...

I've not argued that point at all.

...Last season the intermediates operated under similar rules and no one had a problem...

If they still existed, that's where I'd belong, as my pace in the F2s shows that in an equivalent car, I have NO chance against the fast guys.

...some people chose to skip races to ensure a faster chassis for the season...

So my inexperience with the scoring system here is justification for penalizing me?

...Discretion was used by the moderator on more than one occasion...

Which is what (IMO) is not happening here. Someone's leading, they get handicapped, end of. Circumstances? Quirk of the scoring system? Actual pace of the drivers involved? Ignored.

...I and a lot of other people I suspect don't really care if you don't like the rules this season...

Again, I am not arguing the rules for this season. It's the application that I have issues with.

...It sounds like people solely interested in winning and winning at any cost...

If I wanted to just win races, I wouldn't be in the F2 Lights. I knew before signing up that even getting near the podium (with Hristo, Raoni, Tristan and Evil around) would require a good amount of misfortune to befall others (which is what happened at Brands, where two of them DNFed, and the other ran away into the distance).

...The idea of changing the rules mid season on the hoof is simply ridiculous...

See above x 2.

...Try and remember that all the series provided by Paul and the rest of the UKGPL team are for the benefit of EVERYONE...

And I appreciate that. What I don't understand is why a midfield driver is being handicapped, when any present advantage he has in the points will be nullified (and then some) come the end of the season.

...The mid season review will provide, as always, a forum for discussion on any changes for next season and rest assured I will be fighting the corner for a handicapping system in appropriate series that gives everyone a chance of winning and not just the fastest drivers.

Irrelevant, as 1) that will happen after this race (I'm of the conviction that, no matter what chassis I'm allowed to drive at Jarama, any lead I have in the series will disappear IF H, T, and RF show up), and 2) I'm not a fast guy in the F2s.

When I joined this series, I never expected to be able to compete for wins. What I wanted was a chance to compete against drivers of my level in equivalent machinery, while watching the fast guys run away (as happened in the first 3 rounds). Driving a hamstrung POS to a clear LAST place on the grid and acting as a mobile chicane in the race (viz. Watkins) is not fun, and if it's not fun, I'm not going to do this.

[Ronniepeterson]

Dean the rules this season apply to EVERYONE. My response should not be read as you singular but you plural, EVERYONE.

Your just the poor unfortunate at the top of the F2 lights at the moment, just as I found myself in the Intermediate 65's last season. You can choose to skip the next race or take your chances in the handicapped car, its your choice. Trying to chase Gareth in his Lotus when I was saddled with the BT7 was a thankless task but the rules were clear at the start and I just got on with it. What you decide is entirely up to you but I would hate to see the rules change mid season.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[Billy Nobrakes]

Not wishing to protract the debate - but I will just clarify a couple of points.
First Boggy's question. The intention was to set the handicap rules from the beginning of the season. The registration post said
"Race 1 & 2 is a free choice of car. From Race 3 the following will apply."
As the championship was very close after two rounds I made a decision to defer until the Watkins race (round 4). The rules are the same for every driver.
Tristan - to answer your question above
"Chassis alloaction is effective when the race is posted, irrespective of whether points are adjusted after moderation".
The chassis handicaps will be applied as above for the rest of the season.
Drivers are at liberty to miss specific races as two results are dropped. Please remember that the series has a 1 Shift R rule, so deliberately missimg races could work to yout disavantage.
I would expect Jarama would be a much better track to take a slower chassis than Monza10K.
No handicap system is perfect but it does help to keep the competition alive until the end of the season.

[Philippe Girard]

Hello

I would like to participate at the champ F2, is it possible ?
In reserve, because I'm not sure to race all the track.

Thank you

Philippe

[DLogan]

...I would like to participate at the champ F2, is it possible ?...

You have to vote in the registration thread here: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=11401.0

[Billy Nobrakes]

Yes Philippe, please vote in the thread.
There should be room for you to join.

[Hristo Itchov]

What you people don't realize is the so called change in the system I'm proposing won't really be an actual change in the real sense, it would be more like Billy handing out handicaps to a couple of drivers based on championship standings, something which he is doing already. We already have the chassis groups, which the system could use just fine. The difference is, this will apply all the time and you will know in advance whether you'd be handicapped or not, instead of always wondering about it and handicapping being an unknown. In addition, it will prevent any possible misjudgment on behalf of Billy, because as I said, nobody can take absolutely all factors into an account in a consistent manner, and if we lack consistency in handicapping, then that is unfair to one driver or another over the course of a season. To those of you who are comparing this to a real series, show me any series where handicap was given subjectively, from a single person's judgement. Again, nothing personal against Billy, I don't think anyone can do it, including myself, so I'm not saying it's just him who can't do it.

And I also notice people are yet to realize the disadvantage of skipping a race, so I'll repeat it here. Even if you skip a race and get a better car, you have lost one of your worst results drop for the season, so if you happen to retire or get a bad result, that won't be dropped and you'll be in a disadvantage compared to someone who didn't skip and scored. I's a superior way of scoring in regard to bad luck and making the championship closer. If you remove dropped scores, you would have to change the point system to reflect that, otherwise the championship would get to be decided early on, with no chance for anyone to make up lost ground.

[robert john]

For the record I want to say I think Billy does a terrific job and I hope none of my input in this topic implies any less.
I think I stuck my nose in where it shouldn't have been. I'm not vying for any rule changes , just possible adjustments to discourage strategically missing a race to put someone else in the slowmobile. And not to say it should happen now because several would then be affected. Something to consider I thought but not well received it seems.

See you on the track

Peace

RJ

[MagicArsouille]

personnaly, if I miss some races in differents series, it's not because of a strategie for winning or because I'm affraid to drive a slower car than the others, I don't care about that...no, the only reason is that I'm racing in French ligues the tuesday,friday and sunday, and sometime there is a conflict of date.....but I never think about skip a race 'cause of points or badcar , it's just unclever, cause itch point is précious in a champ, and it's also a challenge to drive a slower car, and it's can help sometime ....if ( for exemple ) I win Jarama , I've goods chances to get a 2CV ( CITROËN ) for monza 10k.....no problémo ! I take it and do my best to bring back some precious points for the champ.....

[Rainier]

personnaly, if I miss some races in differents series, it's not because of a strategie for winning or because I'm affraid to drive a slower car than the others, I don't care about that...no, the only reason is that I'm racing in French ligues the tuesday,friday and sunday, and sometime there is a conflict of date.....but I never think about skip a race 'cause of points or badcar , it's just unclever, cause itch point is précious in a champ, and it's also a challenge to drive a slower car, and it's can help sometime ....if ( for exemple ) I win Jarama , I've goods chances to get a 2CV ( CITROËN ) for monza 10k.....no problémo ! I take it and do my best to bring back some precious points for the champ.....

Bravo Tristan !

I am sure you would stay one of the best even with the BT14 in F2 or the Cooper in mod65.
I really do not understand all these sim drivers contesting any decisions made by the moderators, they could win with an underrated car but they absolutely want the best !
why ? they really like boring races ?   

[Philippe Girard]

Yes Philippe, please vote in the thread.
There should be room for you to join.

All right for my registration... I hope I can race to Jarama...
Philippe

[bernie]

personnaly, if I miss some races in differents series, it's not because of a strategie for winning or because I'm affraid to drive a slower car than the others, I don't care about that...no, the only reason is that I'm racing in French ligues the tuesday,friday and sunday, and sometime there is a conflict of date.....but I never think about skip a race 'cause of points or badcar , it's just unclever, cause itch point is précious in a champ, and it's also a challenge to drive a slower car, and it's can help sometime ....if ( for exemple ) I win Jarama , I've goods chances to get a 2CV ( CITROËN ) for monza 10k.....no problémo ! I take it and do my best to bring back some precious points for the champ.....

Bravo Tristan !

I am sure you would stay one of the best even with the BT14 in F2 or the Cooper in mod65.
I really do not understand all these sim drivers contesting any decisions made by the moderators, they could win with an underrated car but they absolutely want the best !
why ? they really like boring races ?   

well said that man 

[fpolicardi]

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