UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Formula 2 Trophy - Jarama - Mar 17

[Hristo Itchov]

stuff

Can I point out that I was handicapped with a BT7 in novices a few seasons ago and won 3 times with it against a fairly competitive field so I do know what it takes, I am not clueless and nor do I think I am being arrogant.  What I am is insulted by your personal jibe at me.
Take some advice please Hristo and just chill a little! This is a game, played for fun against other people who are doing it mostly for a bit of a laugh and some relaxation. All people want to see is some close action.  

As for the handicap thing, its only there to prevent a driver from runninG away with things week in week out. In the old days of UKGPL we had so many drivers and so many divisions we didn't need to handicap anyone - they just went up a division at seasons end and that took care of everything. Sadly there arent enough of us to do that anymore.  As for my view, well I can take it or leave it. I really am not bothered either way except perhaps for the original 67s where the Lotus advantage is so extreme we would run the risk of 19 green and yellow cars every race.....

You deserved it, by saying I was being over-dramatic every time. I wasn't making things up though, I was being honest, so you can't just say it without being aware of the facts first.

As for the handicaps, yes, making it closer is the aim, but when you end up with drivers who don't care to improve anymore (hiding behind "it's for fun" argument or the "he's alien I'm not" argument) and keep on handicapping others all the time, it gets very unfair at times. I understand GPL takes time to learn and people have different capacity, but when I see someone who shows glimpses of potential but does not go for it as I did, and instead relies on getting a quicker car continuously, and when this happens season after season after season, why should I be content with it? Just because I have a history and the other person doesn't? Just because I happened to do a good lap in Q or the R? Or just because I happened to survive by the end of a race and all others did not? I guarantee you that if I was to join UKGPL tomorrow and had no history in it, things would be very different. I was just about as fast when I joined UKGPL as I am now, yet everyone was OK with things back then, but gradually people began to handicap me just based on my name and stats instead of my actual performance. I did improve noticeably at some point, then it went downhill again in the last 2 years, for reasons I don't want to discuss. Now when I'm actually slower and more inconsistent than my prime time, people still look at it that way and I have to suffer because of it? Not going to happen, it's not objective nor is it fair and I can't accept it.

As for Martin's point about realism, the mods and the original 67 in particular aren't as realistic parameters-wise as you claim, nor am I really sure the idea is to run a full grid of mixed chassis instead of going more towards spec races. Sure, it's nice to see a colorful grid, but we're not watching the races, we're taking part in them, thus as drivers we should focus on what is fun for us and what is fair for us all as a group. I don't find it any more fun racing against all chassis than racing against 1 or 2, the fun comes from the close racing, at least for me, but not just randomly close, but close between drivers of similar ability.

[Ronniepeterson]

I feel a little embarrassed to mention my win at Jarama amid the ongoing furore on handicapping, but thanks to anyone who has commented on this instead.

Grats to Clive for spinning out of my way and Tris for trying to win from the back, much appreciated guys. Grats also to Dean on scoring good points, job well done mate. See you all at Monza 10k.

Okay, its back to anyone still wishing to discuss handicapping  

[maddog]

A great win Ronnie - Monaco is known as a track where the driver makes a big difference to performance.  Jarama is much the same.

Response to Hristo - agreed, the original '67's weren't perfect physicswise.  GPL was groundbreaking work, and built to a budget.  Improvements were made during the first Mod's development of '65. 

It's no suprise, that to a pure racer, a colourful and varied collection of machinery, is less important than it's useability.  A spec. series is the purest form of racing.  But if everyone is interested in winning, it requires a spec. series of drivers, of similar ability, for such a series to be successful. 

I prefer realism, and use of all the cars we'd actually have seen.  We seem to be losing this.  I might mention, the F2 Ferrari was only seen once, during the actual '67 championship.  It would be nice to have the embarrassment of such spread about, but suspect that would require more complex rules, and that might prevent new drivers from getting started with us, and generally confuse. 

[uli]

Hi all,
GRATS Podium and all finishers.
About lap 14 I unfortunately had a technical problem –FREEZE!!! – incl. computer restart, strange – forgot that it's still possible.
Anyway I had a lot of fun, because of so much fast racers. Highlight was an extraordinarily close duel with Mr. Heller – 5 corners side by side …
THX for racing with you all last night.
I‘m sure we will meet on track again this year.
uli

[DLogan]

...a technical problem –FREEZE!!! – incl. computer restart, strange...

Screen freeze (with looping sound) that won't respond to "Esc", alt-tab, or even ctrl-alt-del? Instead of a hard shut-down, try just pulling the steering wheel USB cable out of the computer. That's usually enough of a "kick" to get my system responding again (unfortunately, just back to the desktop, not back into the race  ), but it's more gentle to the system than pulling the plug (which is what a hard shut-down is, in essence).

Better luck next time.

[EvilClive]

I must apologise to Ronnie for not acknowledging his win at Jarama. I confess my attention was distracted by the ongoing handicap debate.

He drove a perfect race to take the win and I threw it away attempting to push the Lola BMW to take corners quicker than it could...hence my spin. I think Ronnie and Raoni sabotaged my prib display somehow, because I was being told that I had a lead of 350 mtrs and when I crossed the line a lap later it was down to 75mtrs and I was still running at the same lap pace??? It was quite a shock to see the 2 of them looming in my mirrors when I was already dreaming of cool champagne  
It took a while to regain my rhythm after the spin and it was not until I stopped trying to force the pace and relaxed that I started to close the gap to Raoni. I minor excursion across the grass at T1 set back my plans, but a few laps later I caught and passed Raoni who was having some problems with his keyboard/brakes/left turns.
That left just Ronnie to catch and a great many backmarkers to negotiate for both of us. Ronnie's pace was such that I really had to drive at 100% accuracy to gain on him, sometimes he would be slower because of lapping cars and I would close, only to lose the same margin as I negotiated the same cars. I have no complaints about those I lapped, everyone allowed me to pass as soon as it was safe and practical and I guess it was the same for Ronnie.
On the last lap I was closing down the last few mtrs to Ronnie's gearbox but I suspect that Ronnie was managing the gap to take the chequered flag first without any great drama. Maybe another couple of laps would have been interesting , but I made a mistake and paid for it. Or rather, Ronnie took his chance and held onto it  .
Grats to Tris for bringing home 3rd spot from the rear of the field

...a technical problem –FREEZE!!! – incl. computer restart, strange...

Screen freeze (with looping sound) that won't respond to "Esc", alt-tab, or even ctrl-alt-del? Instead of a hard shut-down, try just pulling the steering wheel USB cable out of the computer. That's usually enough of a "kick" to get my system responding again (unfortunately, just back to the desktop, not back into the race   ), but it's more gentle to the system than pulling the plug (which is what a hard shut-down is, in essence).

Better luck next time.

What is this of which you speak!!?? something that I have experienced many times recently. Are you suggesting that the problem lies within the USB ports? or that there is a possible overload in that department?

[DLogan]

...What is this of which you speak!!?? something that I have experienced many times recently. Are you suggesting that the problem lies within the USB ports? or that there is a possible overload in that department?

No, just a way to deal with the aftermath, not a prevention, unfortunately. 

[EvilClive]

and GPL should come with a government health warning , GPL does ruin your health and can ruin your life to if you dont take the right precautions  

What??....Do I have to wear a bloody condom to do this as well?

Well my wife reckons GPL must be better than her because it gets more of my attention than she does on some evenings... and I can make a race last for 50 minutes?? I'm not sure what she is getting at there

[JonnyO]

  Jarama is a track that always go well!

  Little White Lotus was perfect.

[robert john]

At least you're a stud in GPL Evil  

Most of us can't even claim that fame.  

After downloading and scoping the server replay I'll say well done to everyone on a difficult track. Nice patience by all in the opening laps. Jarama is a tough little track but these cars and period realism make it worthwhile for sure. Al's mention of braking point variances was spot on and I was on both sides of that predicament. I must again applaud those who managed to keep things clean throughout. I'm sure that fun is what we are all seeking here.  

Peace

RJ

[MagicArsouille]

I take a good start, but 2 mistakes in the 2 first laps put me far from the lead.. ...lap 7_I 'm 6 and come back on Dean , but I can't catch him , the cooper is realy quick ( driver too ) and I have to wait 13 laps to overpass him !!!!. ...lap 22_I'm 4 th and get Raoni in visual.....I close quickely the gap .....he seems in loose ...and I can attack him at lap 23, in the straight line.. .but as he like to do, Raoni keep the inside line and close the door !!!????I have to brake and nearly stop to avoid a contact, loose 200m .. .!!???...why a sutch behaviour when you know you have a keys problem !??.....even when you don't have a keys problem, you do the same ( same in W.Glenn...). ..let me tell you that is not fair play....you must accept to be overpass...if you think you are quicker, ok , you will overpass at your time....but not in force like in W.Glenn where you kick me out !!!. ...so after loosing too mutch time , I lost all chance to catch Evil ....but finish 3rd after the bads early laps is not so bad.......
well done Ronnie é Evil .....
...c u at Monza10k...............
 

[Raoni Frizzo]

but as he like to do, Raoni keep the inside line and close the door !!!????I have to brake and nearly stop to avoid a contact, loose 200m .. .!!???...why a sutch behaviour when you know you have a keys problem !??.....even when you don't have a keys problem, you do the same ( same in W.Glenn...). ..let me tell you that is not fair play....you must accept to be overpass...

Tristan, the only difference between me and you is simple: I'm fair and you're not. That's it!

When I want to defend my position, I just go to the inside line and don't go back to the previous one. If you manage to pass me on the outside, well done! If not, patience. By the way, I'll keep doing the same thing always when I find it necessary, it doesn't matter the driver who is behind me. Ask Evil and Ronnie, who had battles with me in Jarama, if I was fair or unfair.

You're unfair. You usually do zig-zags, moving more than once your line on a straight, to avoid people catching your slipstream. You did this with me and Hristo in Watkins. You did this too in Albi (Pro trophy) in an even more unfair way, with at least 3 or 4 drivers.

Before calling someone as a cheater, try to look at yourself and what you usually do on the track. Don't do to the others what you don't want them to do for you

By the way, impressive win, Ronnie!! You were extremelly quick and calm when under pressure. Fantastic job!
Grats to Evil too, who recovered from a spin and fought really hard for the win.

[tintin]

When I want to defend my position, I just go to the inside line.

Sorry it can't be considered as a fair behavior from my POV.

[blito]

defending the inside line is fair behaviour.... one move to the inside and stay on the inside... thats fair and acceptable in all forms of motorsport..
weaving is another matter entirely

[MagicArsouille]

well Raoni, the first behaviour when you claim you'r fair is to apologies when you kick out someone off the track.....and till now, I don't hear anything about !??....even in your last post, you avoid to answer to this !!?....I'm just talking about gentlemen drivers here ,...you know ?.....
...now, about my "unfair behaviour".....( lol ).....what is the most dangerous and unfair driving ? 1/ changing line 2 times to escape the slipstream whith absolutly no risk for the guy behind who is too far away ( he 's just frustrated to don't catch the slipstream ).... or, 2/ closing every doors as possible by keeping the inside, just to don't be overpassed by somebody clearly quicker at that instant of the race !???....and that when the cars are close together !!!....you never do that when you have 150 m advance  !  isn't it ?  and you tel me to take the outside  where most of the time it's just impossible ....or to wait??? to wait for what man ???waiting for that I'm taking maximum risk to overpass you ....Raoni if you are soooo quick, let the guy pass and you will easely pass him right to the next sector...
....last point I want to make clear.....I' m not zig-zaging as you said, cause zig-zaging is blocking the other driver, and I never block a driver who is overpassing me and I never change my line when the cars are close thogether, it's to dangerous for both of them but I try to let maximum room for the overpass....that the difference between you and me .....sorry Raoni, you are probably the quicker keyboard driver in GPL, but this don't give you the right to block me specialy when you got a keyboard problem since the race !!!...as you said.......I let you meditate on a gentleman behaviour for the futur ......and to finish, what is the rull ? .....is it allowed to change the line to escape the slipstream ?....this mean of corse that the car behind is not close , other way no nead to escape the slipstream, it's too late !....I'm not zig-zaging m8 ......you'are blocking for shure.....