UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Zolder - Jan 21

[Ronniepeterson]

Congrats to the podium of Tristan, Uli and Raoni. I would love to say that I quit in sympathy when Clive disappeared before my very eyes at the start but I would be lying. After settling down with Tristan and Uli in sight ahead and Robert and the rest of the pack in close attendance behind I made two silly mistakes and my race was over. First I was greedy with the side of the track on the exit of the final corner and spun. Then I ended up in the mesh fence with no escape a lap or two later. Both the result of some overdriving on my part. Unfortunate I find this necessary with the BRM in my hands. I like it but find it hard work to make it keep pace with the other cars on medium to slow circuits. See you all at Oulton.

[garethhall]

Having checked the replay. I rear-ended Dean (I had nowhere to go) at 48mph (yes clive, I don't mess about) and bounced in to Jethro. Both Dean and Jethro continued undamaged whereas I was punted skyward and landed on my head, what bad luck! It may have something to do with the gypsie I ran over, whilst smashing a mirror, going under a ladder on Friday 13th trying to avoid several black cats crossing in front of me. Or it may just be a coincidence.

Edit. With pace shown in this race I think I may drop down to the undersubscribed ams.

[Doni Yourth]

Rather fortunate to score a P6 here as I was well off the pace of the front runners.  I didn't do much in the way of pre-race trials but at least set a marker time as a reference.  When I joined the server and noted the top times, I thought, 'What are these guys smokin'!' 

The dash into T1 was a bit of a thrill.  I managed to get an inside lane into T1 and when I saw cars dancing thru the air, hugged the kerb.  It soon became apparent that I needed much more room and made for the grass.  I cruised by Arf without so much as a bump that I noticed but any kinetic energy of a possible collision seemed to go all his way and none mine.  Bad luck there, A-A-A.

Emerged from that mess to find ol' buddy from Atlas F1 wars, Natan, hot on my tail and anxious to pass.  We sparred for quite a few laps and on Lap07, he even got a pass going into and thru the hairpin but I stole it right back on the exit.  That was quite fantastic.  I expect that Natan was in the wrong gear and couldn't accelerate normally.  Still, one to savour.

We both had offs on Lap09 in T1 and I was able to continue, he not; stuck on the berm.  Bad luck there, Nat.  I then had Norm Hance(don't think we've had the pleasure before, Norm)close astern in a BT11.  Lap11 and Izzy, also in a Red Ball Special, passed Norm and closed in fast.  Fun to hear both V-12's screaming their lungs out around the circuit.  Seemingly quite a bit faster than I, it was tough to fend him off.  Ending Lap15, ID got the goods on me exiting the finishing chicane and was by on the inside for T1.  And off!  His Honda wavered ever so slightly on entry and correcting for the slide sent him wide onto the grass.  At least he avoided the dreaded berm and was able to resume albeit considerably down on time now.  I came within a ciggy paper of dropping off the road myself but just managed to hang on.

For the next 10 laps, Norm was my shadow never more than about two seconds behind.  Lap27 and I was definitely fatiguing and dropped the ball in the complex after T1.  A quick 360° spin was enough for Norm to storm by for P6.  Merde!

Norm immediately upped his pace and I, too, in my efforts to win back that coveted P6 placing.  Lap times for both of us dropped into the low 34's.  I even logged a high 33.  Pleased with that but Norm was still about two seconds up the road and only one lap to run.  Or at least, I thought...

My pitboard indicated that at the end of the next lap, it was game over.  Wait a mo...  NO CHECKERED FLAG?!?!  Hmmm...  I carried on with pace and was shocked to see Norm off in T1 and gifting me that P6 finish.  As he explained above, he was duped into believing his pitboard and it was cruel luck indeed for a worthy drive.  I did log that last lap and did finally see the checker for that placing.  I should be up on a charge of grand larceny!

[Turkey Machine]

@Dean: that would do it! Sorry again.

Also, a warm welcome to Wiltshire Tony.

[Wiltshire Tony]

Also, a warm welcome to Wiltshire Tony.

Why thank you. I'll try not to get in the way 

[uli]

GRATS Tristan and Raoni big hand to you, THX Admins
feels good to be on podium for the first time 
Fantastic overtaking manover at T1 Tristan! – Made no sens to follow you this time …
I‘m looking forward to Oulton Park
uli

[maddog]

Might help if you spaced the grid a little bit more as well?

Grids - how wide is wide enough?  Real GP drivers were 3 or even 4 abreast in the 1960's, and everyone moved off at a similar speed.  We can't safely do this, as a small bump can cause catastrophe.  But I have found, when our grids are spread too wide, large gaps open up, with room for fast cars to race through.  Speeds can become very different, on arrival at the first corner.  This happened to me last Privateers race - it was not a pretty sight!

I think something between the two extremes is best. It's less easy for fast starter's to overtake slow starters.  The best way to improve starting behaviour, is not to start us at 10 second intervals, but to let drivers practice, until they get it right!  We all hate penalties, but they were made to stop naughty behavior becoming a habit.  Let's not make our racing less competitive, and therefore, less exciting.  I for one, would rather be handcuffed after committing a crime, than before.

Controversy creation at no charge.   I posted here, as many of our finest racers visit this page.

[Clutch4]

Just a quick one from me.

My race lasted a few metres as i approached the T1 accident at very slow speed. Got hit from behind and ended up on my roof.

No problem though. I'd taken the best part of 6months off GPL and it felt great to drive this SIM again.

I'm way off the pace, but enjoyed being back at UKGPL. See you next time.

Thanks also to NHance for popping over to repair my Clutch Pedal. No1 Driver, Team Leader and Team mechanic.

[BadBlood]

Might help if you spaced the grid a little bit more as well?

Grids - how wide is wide enough?

This was all about the latency experienced at the start Martin - if you draw the cars further apart each client has less detail to model so it might make the response smoother. As the field spreads lag and warp is less of an issue so a grid spacing of, say, 120m should do nicely. Less crashes that way too (unless the track is shorter than 2400m of course) 

[garethhall]

Not going into t1 as if your ass was on fire might also help!

[maddog]

The space was there to give it a shot, Gareth - I failed!

When you look at the old GPL video's, from the days when both our Sim, and online racing were new, you'll see primitive looking cars lined up 3 by 2, the way track builders intended.  They would not have raced this way, if connections too often spiked.  Does it nowadays happen every 3rd race, or every 300th?  I don't have the figures, but suspect it's less of an issue than safety.

Ours was probably at first, a sport for youngsters - the latest fad to come along.  They had the lightning quick reflexes to survive in tight spaces, better than we do.  I don't think we're good enough as a group, to safely start that way.  But anyone racing competitively, should have the skills necessary to negotiate a sensible 1 by 1 grid, within sight of the starter.  It is the most dangerous part of a race, so there will be accidents.  There is no doubt that starting at 10 second intervals, would be a lot safer.  And I'll bet some would agree to it.  We are heading in that direction ATM.

[EvilClive]

As a victim of the Spike/Lag/Gremlins at Zolder, I can see the wisdom in spacing the cars out on the grid to lessen the load on the computive elements.

However, on the subject of safe(r) starts I am not at all convinced that bigger gaps between cars makes things better. If we all started at the same rate and accelerated at the same rate , then T1 would be a clean procession of evenly paced cars.

But, in my experience the larger the gap on the grid the more aggressive I can be with my start, because I have room to control the car and the wheelspin without hitting anyone, AND more importantly a huge gap to aim at. Also the wider spacing gives the opportunity to go for a pass on the run into T1 because there is room to exploit.

As a result gaps between the slower starting cars are filled by those who have got away more quickly, so closely packed groups of cars now arrive at T1 all jostling for position and often not on the ideal racing line and all at different speeds.

I cannot think of any track where there is not a long enough run down to T1 for a fast starting driver to gain place(s) if there is room.  When the racing mist descends there are not many who can resist an open invitation to go for a pass. Whereas if you are on a closely packed grid the emphasis switches from a "banzai!!!!" start, to "strewth!! this is tight, better be careful", and things tend to be a little more controlled.

[BadBlood]

When you look at the old GPL video's, from the days when both our Sim, and online racing were new, you'll see primitive looking cars lined up 3 by 2, the way track builders intended.  They would not have raced this way, if connections too often spiked.  Does it nowadays happen every 3rd race, or every 300th?  I don't have the figures, but suspect it's less of an issue than safety.

Not really germane unless you want to go back to the original graphics and use DOS as your operating system. This is about a client/server interaction and latency. In the 'old days' you would have been on a dial up modem and not running seventeen other processes on your PC. You, literally, cannot compare the situations.

@Clive - if a larger space makes people more agressive but the packed grid means we have excessive warping then the solution would be to have a no overtaking zone until everyone is up to pace - I have done this in GPFun. I would comment but I wouldn't have been able to overtake those boys if I had wanted to...

Alternatively we could get heavy handed with the penalties

Or

We could leave well alone! It is really a matter of whether excessive warp is ruining people's fun to the point that races are unattractive.

All of the above is just musings really.

[garethhall]

have a larger space between cars at the start and have no over taking for a couple of corner may work.
why no do it at the next fun race?

[Robert Fleurke]

IMO we have to continue with normal loose grids, and free to race/pass. That's why we have a red zone. No need to make things more complicated, we need to use our brains and all will be fine. You can't win a race in T1 after the start, but you CAN lose it.

Warp/lag/spikes suck, but these are factors we can't control. OK, maybe more spaced grids, but actually I think it doesn't make things safer. Speed differences will be greater between good and slow starters, as Clive already said.