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  • S3255F1 Zandvoort: November 21, 2017
November 21, 2017, 09:36:54 PM +0000 - Zandvoort (1948-72) - UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
FullMetalGasket
 Black Night Racing
Gordini T16 F1 1955 1 1:39.942
93.871mph
1 46:11.391
91.400mph
27 1:40.728
93.139mph
Englebert  
GregT
 Team Baarf
Gordini T16 F1 1955 5 +1.515
92.469mph
2 +6.810
91.176mph
27 1:41.183
92.720mph
Englebert  
Samb
 Black Night Racing
Gordini T16 F1 1955 6 +1.574
92.416mph
3 +14.611
90.921mph
27 1:41.179
92.723mph
Englebert  
Doni Yourth
 Blue Moose Racing
Connaught Type B F1 1955 9 +2.154
91.891mph
4 +25.122
90.579mph
27 1:41.892
92.075mph
Pirelli  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Lancia D50 F1 1955 8 +1.846
92.169mph
5 +39.949
90.101mph
27 1:40.680
93.183mph
Pirelli  
miner2049er
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lancia D50 F1 1955 10 +2.676
91.423mph
6 +55.837
89.595mph
27 1:41.938
92.033mph
Pirelli  
Ronniepeterson
 
Connaught Type B F1 1955 3 +0.820
93.107mph
7 +1:11.440
89.103mph
27 1:42.193
91.803mph
Pirelli  
dave curtis
 Black Night Racing
Maserati 250F F1 1955 14 +3.597
90.610mph
8 (+2) +1:20.755
88.812mph
27 1:43.340
90.784mph
Pirelli  
Rainier
 Black Night Racing
Connaught Type B F1 1955 17 +4.515
89.814mph
9 +1:45.436
88.050mph
27 1:43.999
90.209mph
Pirelli  
Clive Loynes
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Lancia D50 F1 1955 4 +1.116
92.834mph
10 +1L
88.006mph
26 1:41.864
92.100mph
Pirelli  
francesco
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 625 F1 1955 15 +3.728
90.495mph
11 +1.150
87.970mph
26 1:43.423
90.712mph
Englebert  
DLogan
 
Gordini T16 F1 1955 16 +3.750
90.476mph
12 +9.148
87.717mph
26 1:43.040
91.049mph
Englebert  
Billy Nobrakes
 Black Night Racing
Maserati 250F F1 1955 11 +3.048
91.093mph
13 +26.225
87.181mph
26 1:43.085
91.009mph
Pirelli  
ReiverEcosse
 
Maserati 250F F1 1955 12 +3.342
90.834mph
14 +1:16.533
85.641mph
26 1:44.047
90.168mph
Pirelli  
EvilClive
 Blue Moose Racing
Connaught Type B F1 1955 2 +0.307
93.584mph
15 +11L
91.471mph
16 1:40.407
93.436mph
Disco
Pirelli  
Cookie
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 555 SS F1 1955 7 +1.800
92.210mph
16 +25L
88.468mph
2 1:42.249
91.753mph
Disco
Englebert  
Carlos Cendejas
 
Vanwall VW55 F1 1955 13 +3.391
90.791mph
18 DNS ---
---
Pirelli  
4 UKGPL
 
Gordini T16 F1 1955 18 19 ---
---
Englebert  

Moderator's Report

Server replay time: 0

Lap 1 T2 Fran closes on Dave and clips his rear end. This was a fault by Fran but he suffered far more than Dave and was spun out whilst Dave continued.

Caution to Fran


Server replay time: 0h00m39s

Dave has followed Fran for several laps and picks up the tow on the straight where it looks like he will make the pass. Instead of pulling out to make the pass he runs into the rear of Fran midway down the straight.
There is very little to be said in Dave's defence and this was a blatant rear end collision.

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Zandvoort - Nov 21  (Read 3166 times)
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2017, 11:16:46 PM +0000 »

I've loaded the chassis the drivers used into the token calculator spreadsheet.  For the next race the available tokens will be as declared in the table below (the table will also appear in the next race announcement).  The calculated values are automated but selecting the cars is a manual process so please check your tokens to make sure I haven't made a silly error.  There was no token overspend for this round so no one is disqualified.

Available Tokens:
Note: These are the tokens available to each driver before the 10 tokens are added for making the race start.

Driver   TokensStatus
Robert Fleurke   
5
Pro
EvilClive
16
Pro
Ronniepeterson
19
Pro
DLogan
10
Pro
FullMetalGasket
17
Pro
Doni Yourth
20
Pro
Clive Loynes
15
Pro
Samb
27
Pro
MagicArsouille
10
Pro
Turkey Machine
5
Pro
GregT
23
Pro
Carlos Cendejas
5
Pro
Cookie
1
Pro
Billy Nobrakes   
16
Am
maddog
15
Am
bagrupp
2
Am
Geoff65
10
Am
Jeep
10
Am
Gareth
15
Am
Rainier
14
Am
Phil Thornton
7
Am
dave curtis
10
Am
francesco   
10
Am
ReiverEcosse
15
Am
Syd Drake
10
Am
Will Tway
18
Am
miner2049er
15
Am
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 08:26:20 PM +0000 by Phil Thornton » Logged
GregT
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« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2017, 11:52:42 PM +0000 »

Congrats Tim and Sam!

lol I almost used consistency to steal another win. I didn't realize Tim had wrecked until I looked at the replay. Clive, Sam, Phil, and I could have passed him in the pits if we had been more consistent. Sam and I would have been in good position to do so, had I not bumped him off the track at Tarzan.

I had my chance to see if I could stay in Tim's slipstream. I couldn't do it. I could get enough off of Sam to keep Phil at bay for a while.

I drove well most of the race. It got so crowded at Tarzan that one lap, I couldn't figure out what to do. I wasn't really trying to pass Sam. I just wanted to do some drag racing down the straight. I lifted a little early to yield to Sam but it wasn't early enough. I had no real idea where to go with Phil and Clive so close. With just a little more brake left, I could have held the car on the inside and avoided bumping Sam. Luckily I did get the car slowed enough that it didn't appear to damage either of our cars. My apologies Sam.

Poor Clive. He paid dearly for relinquishing the lead. Sad

That was a good battle between Sam, Phil, and me. Sam closed on me quickly once in my tow. It took a lot of work and long time for me to narrow any gap to Sam. Phil's Lancia kept him close for a long time. I probably couldn't have held him off without a slight tow from Sam.

I didn't have any hopes for this season and didn't know if I'd drive it or not. It looks like I've got myself into an unexpected battle. Maybe I should practice more than an hour just before the race. I think I'll need a good car advantage if I want to actually beat Tim. It didn't take me long at Spa to make me think I needed a Mercedes if I wanted to stay close to Tim. I don't know what car I would have needed to stay close to his lightning Gordini at Zandvoort.

That was a better race than I expected. Two less accidents and it could have been great. It looks like Tim and I were the lucky ones. Good luck and consistency put me in front of Clive, Sam, and Phil.

Thanks guys.
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« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2017, 07:23:54 AM +0000 »

Going reasonably well until I confused my braking point at Tarzan (must have reverted to 66 mod from Sunday). I ran off / wide / span about 4 consecutive laps toward the end. I owe Doni an apology for one of the rejoins. The 55 cars don't seem to have much traction off road & it took longer to cross the track than I had expected. Glad to see Doni escaped with a minor detour across the grass & perhaps a change of underwear. slowly getting to grips with the 55 cars. Aintree will be amusing as the car never seems to have enough brakes.
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EvilClive
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« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2017, 10:38:51 AM +0000 »

Only myself to blame for a DNF. Grats to Tim and his Gordini....I want the scrutineers to look under that bonnet!!!! eek nuke

Tim was dangerously quick in that Gordini Shocked and I was surprised that a Gordini and a Connaught took the front row, especially when there were a couple of Lancias in the pack??
I hoped that Tim's gearing would compromise his start, and that proved to be the case as I was easily able to get to Tarzan first. I was also hoping that his gearing would be so bad that he got swamped before T1 Wink Grin.
I think Ronnie got past and provided a buffer between me and that crazy French car, so I tried to build a lead that I could then control. The plan worked well for the first few laps and Ronnie grew smaller in the mirrors. Until I tried a little too hard around Hellzanbuggerbrocht and caught my front wheel on the kerb at the exit. The contact pulled the car violently sideways and fired me into the only sign post on the circuit!!!  Undecided.

The resounding "crunch" was so loud I thought that at least 3 wheels had come off and the engine would be between my knees!!! and I almost hit the Escape key there and then. But, the car sort of bounced back towards the track, so I though I would give it a try before quitting.
Miraculously the car appeared to be OK, and after a tentative lap where I expected dodgy handling or braking, but felt no ill effects, I set about regaining some places.
The Connaught was definitely down on top speed against some cars but I could gain ground through the twisty bits.
After a couple of passes, I could see Phil ahead in a Lancia and he was motoring along quite quickly  Wink It took several laps to reel him in and his pace had taken both of us up to the pair of battling Gordinis that were Sam and Greg.

The 4 cars entered the S/F straight where Phil had a definite speed advantage over everyone, but Greg had pulled alongside Sam and the was a wall of pale blue French metal across the track.......undeterred Phil went down the middle  Shocked. Call me chicken and stick a feather somewhere, but I saw trouble ahead at Tarzan  Undecided so I eased back just slightly to give myself some avoidance room.

 I suspect that Phil also realised that a Lancia in a Gordini sandwich into Tarzan was not going to be a good experience and he braked early. Greg was caught on the inside line and like he says, was just a fraction too late on the brakes and slithered gracefully across the track collecting Sam on the way and easing them both into the sand.
Phil was able to squeeze past and my cautious approach allowed me to sweep around the inside and emerge on Phil's tailpipes.  Grin
I think that elevated Phil to 2nd place and myself to 3rd?? which was gratifying after my earlier mistake. If I could get past Phil and his powerful Lancia I might be able to chase down Tim and that twin turbo Gordini with afterburners??

For several laps I chased Phil looking for an opening. The favourite place is braking for Tarzan, but Phil was too quick on the straight for me to get close even with a tow  Undecided Passing anywhere else at Zandvoort is a problem and try as I might I could not force Phil into a decent mistake...good defensive driving Phil  Wink
Over a couple of laps I had noticed that Phil was slightly slower out of Holzenbugitupbloch, but he always held a tight line that effectively blocked any passing attempt.........hmmmmm.

So, if what you are doin' ain't workin' try something different.

I stuck as close to Phil as I could out of Tarzan and through the Esses and instead of hugging the inside Kerb I allowed my car to run deep and brake later, so that I did all my turning out against the hay bales to aim my car back up the hill. This meant that I could nail the gas early and aim up the left hand side of the track whilst Phil took the normal line out to the right.
TBH I was surprised that it worked so well and I was passing Phil as we reached the crest. I could not see his car so had to stay to the left which compromised my entry into the fast left hander in the dip. (Looking at the replay I probably could have moved across and taken the ideal line, but I could not see that at the time).
Which is where it all went wrong, as I missed an upshift and had to take a tighter line to be sure that I left room for Phil...Phil was able to take the perfect line and swept into the apex to find a sluggish Connaught in the way.

As far as I am concerned it was a racing incident which was exaggerated by my missed gearchange. Plus who knows if I would get another screen freeze like I did in the last minutes of Qually, re-entering the server with 30 seconds to go!!

 It had all the makings of an epic battle with the promise of a chase after Tim ahead for the final 10-12 laps and I was disappointed that it all ended as it did. Glad to see that Phil could continue and finish in the points as he was going so quickly.

FWIW I had absolutely zero issues with brakes at this track and did not even need to watch for the red light, in fact I totally forgot about it until about 8 laps in when I glanced down out of Tarzan after I did some really late braking on Doni(?) to see it switch back from yellow to green.
On to Aintree, where brakes WILL be an issue.........
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« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2017, 02:30:18 PM +0000 »

FWIW I had absolutely zero issues with brakes at this track and did not even need to watch for the red light

That's excellent Clive. I thought the slowest car might limit my brake problems. It helped but I still had plenty of laps that I needed more braking power. Sam and Phil appeared to make up a lot time on me braking for Tarzan. Sam didn't seem to have any problem outbraking me at Tarzan when he passed me. Phil saw me on the banking on the left after Tarzan several times. I often had trouble at the first right after Tarzan.
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« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2017, 02:40:11 PM +0000 »

I enjoyed that race massively. Like others I am in awe of Tim gracefully piloting that Gordini around in quali and the race. His car seemed serene to drive (or at least gave the impression of!). My Gordini by comparison seemed like a bucking Bronco  Grin, from understeer to oversteer and a bit all over the place. But it was good fun to drive, if hard work.

Managed 6th on the grid and made an ordinary start thanks to a tall first gear. Axel got the jump on me which demoted me to 7th, but in the opening laps the sand dunes claimed Clive L, Axel, Ronnie and Clive G which promoted me to third, desperately trying to catch Greg while trying, and failing, to build a gap to Phil behind. Eventually I did manage to get close enough to Greg to make a lunge at Tarzan. Tim wasn't too far up the road but he had the legs on me throughout the race and slowly pulled away.

Mid race was a calamity. My desk positioned in the corner of the living room, near the window and mid race my Mrs. opened the windows, which was fine....until a gust of wind blew the curtains into my face, obscuring my view of the monitor  Shocked. As a result I ran wide at the Esses after the bridge, which allowed Greg and Phil to try and pass into Tarzan next lap.

I did wonder if I'd get away with taking a high line into Tarzan to try and defend my position. It is a risky strategy but gave it a go. Almost got away with it but Greg's brakes gave up and we both had a graceful dance into the sand. No worries there Greg, it's a wonder we don't hit each other more with these brakeless beasts. Although getting out the sand cost time, it didn't cost any positions in the end. Greg was kind enough to wait for me to join first and Phil and Clive had an unfortunate collision just up the road. Bad luck there chaps, you were driving great races.

From there it was a steady run to the flag, until two laps to go when I saw Tim exiting the pits, just ahead. Rather than play it safe I got overexcited and tried to catch him, however, even with a heavy fuel load and cold tyres, Tim was still faster! On the last lap I binned it into the dunes, allowing Greg to snatch 2nd place. Bit galling but my own silly fault.

Congrats to Tim and Greg for their podium spots  Smiley

Edit: Just for your reference Greg, for the most part I didn't have brake problems this race, but they did go into the red more than a few times after Tarzan, and didn't cool down in time for the next sequence of corners. It was more of a case of throwing the car into the corner for those. I found pumping the brake helps save them somewhat, but I'm not sure if it's best technique.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 04:38:25 PM +0000 by Samb » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 05:55:55 PM +0000 »

Frankly I'm amazed at my qualifying time as well - that was without draft I believe and means I've beaten Moss' time in the W126 (I'm also over 2 seconds faster than the next fastest T16 on GPLRank) Grin

The start of the race wasn't so good, the Gordini's power band is so narrow that 1st has to be geared as a driving gear - rather than a starting gear.
This meant I was swamped and fell to 4th before reaching Tarzan while waiting for the car to get up to speed.

Ronnie and Clive were miles away by the time I reached Tarzan but Clive (L) was just ahead and staying to the left - when he backed off early I took the invite and moved up to the inside next to him under braking.
I thought he knew I was there as he stayed wide from the inside for the 1st half of the corner, just after the apex his car seemed to move out a little so I accelerated a bit with a view to trying to get ahead upon exiting the corner.
Less than a second later his car moved back in across my nose which resulted in contact - I think I managed to get out of the throttle a bit but didn't have time to brake.
At first it looked like we got away with it as Clive appeared to catch a small slide, then his car suddenly veered off to the outside of the corner.
Sorry Clive - I was already running along the inner kerb so couldn't react enough to avoid you  Sad

After that unfortunate incident I found myself a few lengths behind Ronnie and set to reeling him in, a task made easier when he ran himself off the road.
Then I had the difficulty of Clive up ahead in his faster Connaught. While I'd managed the fastest Qualy lap I was under no illusion that that would mean much in the race, where his brakes could give him an advantage (At my qualifying pace the Gordini brakes only last for 1.5 laps!).

On about lap 3 Clive gifted me the lead with his trip into the signage leaving me in first, about 3 seconds ahead of Gregs' Gordini.

It was hard to pull away, as I was carefully managing my brake use without abandoning them completely in the faster sectors (where I was using them to initiate the slides that avoided having to run the brakes deep or for more than a slight dab).
Eventually I suspect that either the increasing brake temps faced by Greg at his pace, or the battle with Sam allowed me to pull away a bit.

Then Sam got through to 2nd and started to very slowly close on me - I slightly upped my pace by using the brakes a little more, especially into Tarzan as that's where the most time could be made up.
This seemed to work as the gap stabilised and then possibly even opened a little before the accident that knocked everyone back 10 or 15 seconds.

After this I slowed again to give the brakes a chance to recover before pressing on at my previous 'safe' speed, which allowed me to edge ahead to 24 seconds by the time there were 5 laps to go.

This is where it nearly went horribly wrong - I decided that as i was playing the safe game I was therefore running far slower than in qualifying (GPLRA suggests 1:42' - 1:43's through the mid part of the race) and logically someone else had probably taken the fastest lap.
I have an illogical desire to put the Gordini at the top of as many tables as I can so I backed right off for two laps and then tried to repeat my qualifying lap while my fuel was low and I had time (Ha!) for a trip onto the beach.
What actually happened is I put the beginnings of an amazing lap in before then turning in slightly too early at Tunnel Oost.
This bounced me across the kerb and threw me out at the dunes, I tried and failed at staying on track and hit one of the steeper dunes while still quite sideways.
The Gordini appears to have been designed to roll - as that's what I did for really quite a long time before finally landing on my head.

A shift-R later and I wasn't very far ahead of the approaching field - worse than that the pits at Zandvort are at the fastest part of the track so my Stop and Go was going to cost me dearly!
I honestly thought Sam woud get me before Tarzan so was pleasantly surprised to still have 200 Yds in play when exiting the corner. The car now handled and felt like a boat - but on the plus side I had cold tires.
My driving style results in both rears turning red within 4 laps and then staying there at this track, it's great for managing the brakes long-term but hampers my outright pace quite a bit.
Only having to complete 1 or 2 laps after that reset meant I was driving on optimum tires and could really push hard - which is why I was able to still pull away from Sam on full tanks.
Had there been 5 to go he would have been reeling me back in again by the final lap  Wink

Congrats to my fellow Gordini drivers on taking over the rostrum  Grin
And a big well done to the rest who finished, especially anyone who didn't crash somewhere!

Next time I find myself leading I think I'll save my lap records for when I'm offline. I should have learnt my lesson at Spa last time  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2017, 06:28:56 PM +0000 »



Ronnie and Clive were miles away by the time I reached Tarzan but Clive (L) was just ahead and staying to the left - when he backed off early I took the invite and moved up to the inside next to him under braking.
I thought he knew I was there as he stayed wide from the inside for the 1st half of the corner, just after the apex his car seemed to move out a little so I accelerated a bit with a view to trying to get ahead upon exiting the corner.
Less than a second later his car moved back in across my nose which resulted in contact - I think I managed to get out of the throttle a bit but didn't have time to brake.
At first it looked like we got away with it as Clive appeared to catch a small slide, then his car suddenly veered off to the outside of the corner.
Sorry Clive - I was already running along the inner kerb so couldn't react enough to avoid you  Sad


No problem Tim.

I backed off not wanting to clout anyone in front and had no idea that you were there.  Looking at the replay I could have just caught sight of one of your wheels disappearing up the inside but I wasn't looking at that point.  I followed my usual practice of not moving across in the early stages after the start but I think  that I took a slight warp hit from you.  As you say, I wasn't giving you much room but the warp hit pushed the back end over and suddenly I was coming your way.

I thought that I had caught it too but then it snapped back the other way and I was a goner!

As I said in my earlier post, I'm consoling myself with the thought that I'm concentrating all of my worst races in this season and looking forward to the next one!

Took me an absolute age to get out of the fence.
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« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2017, 12:24:40 AM +0000 »

Really enjoyed my first 55 race after taking some time to get to like the mod, I now think it's wonderful.

Qaulified 10th, which surprised me as I expected to be lower, and took it easy for the first couple of laps and then picked up a few places as Clive and Ronnie had problems. Had to take to the grass when I thought Clive was coming across the track but luckily he didn't. Had a mini tussle once he caught me for a few corners and then Ronnie got through as I went wide at Tarzan.

It was pretty lonely for the most part but I was having fun throwing it around a little bit and was building a gap behind until Ronnie had a Stop n Go and began catching me. I upped my pace a bit and he was on a full tank again so never had the grunt to make a pass and caught the back end of my car which threw him wide and I brought it home for an enjoyable 6th.

Already looking forward to Aintree.
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« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2017, 02:30:54 PM +0000 »

Before it slips my mind again, who was it that asked for my setup at the end of practice?
I only saw the message for a split second while swapping to race setup and looking at the grid.
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« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2017, 02:50:56 PM +0000 »

Before it slips my mind again, who was it that asked for my setup at the end of practice?
I only saw the message for a split second while swapping to race setup and looking at the grid.

It is not me ...but I'm interested too !

 
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« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2017, 03:43:50 PM +0000 »

I used the default set up apart from changing fuel level, extending 5th by 1 notch and the front right camber a little.

I read in the manual that you should aim for 40deg on warm tyres, is that what people are doing?

Anything else people are tweaking?

Is it worth over infalting tyres for the fast tracks?
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« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2017, 05:21:49 PM +0000 »

I'll chuck the qualifying one onto dropbox later tonight for any who are interested.
Zandvort is the first track I've seriously played with camber on, normally I leave it almost standard as the tires are so narrow it doen't really seem to matter.

Gearing is a must for the Gordini, the more drivable cars will normally work out of the box with only final drive tweeks if you need more/less speed.
I think I've played with ride height, brake bias, and toe quite heavily (My setups mostly use Monacane as a base as I've tested all of the cars there).
Diff also gets some attention now and then..
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« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2017, 05:59:56 PM +0000 »

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5pu4slirhtyigpm/Qual.ib1?dl=0

There you go. I think it's got enough fuel for about 5 laps if I've picked the right file.
It will only be fast for 2 flying laps, but you'll need to get the tires 'warm' without using the brakes (much) on the out lap Wink
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DLogan
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« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2017, 06:34:31 PM +0000 »


'Twas I that asked, and thank you.
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