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  • S4455GPW Hockenheim: February 18, 2024
February 18, 2024, 09:36:20 PM +0000 - Hockenheim (1965-2001) - UKGPL Season 44 (Spring 2024) 1955 GP (Works)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
JonnyO
 Team Coyote
Mercedes W196 (#1955) F1 1955 1 2:10.611
116.721mph
1 44:39.280
113.800mph
20 2:12.886
114.723mph
Continental  
Hristo Itchov
 Turbo Racing
Lancia D50 (#1955) F1 1955 3 +0.952
115.877mph
2 +10.822
113.342mph
20 2:12.701
114.883mph
Pirelli  
EvilClive
 Blue Moose Racing
Vanwall VW55 (#1955) F1 1955 4 +1.418
115.468mph
3 +11.935
113.295mph
20 2:12.505
115.053mph
Pirelli  
fpolicardi
 Team7
Lancia D50 (#1955) F1 1955 9 +3.267
113.873mph
4 +26.022
112.705mph
20 2:13.656
114.062mph
Pirelli  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Lancia D50 (#1955) F1 1955 10 +3.886
113.349mph
5 +40.786
112.094mph
20 2:13.302
114.365mph
Pirelli  
Clive Loynes
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Vanwall VW55 (#1955) F1 1955 8 +2.937
114.154mph
6 +42.542
112.021mph
20 2:14.169
113.626mph
Pirelli  
Claudio Navonne
 
Ferrari 625 (#1955) F1 1955 11 +5.110
112.327mph
7 +1:10.563
110.880mph
20 2:15.624
112.407mph
Englebert  
Enrique Farina
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Lancia D50 (#1955) F1 1955 5 +1.489
115.406mph
8 +6L
113.323mph
14 2:12.352
115.186mph
Disco
Pirelli  
JonathanStiener76
 
Maserati 250F (#1955) F1 1955 2 +0.725
116.077mph
9 +0.206
113.311mph
14 2:12.587
114.982mph
Disco
Pirelli  
Leo Menegucci
 
Vanwall VW55 (#1955) F1 1955 7 +2.590
114.452mph
10 +9L
110.967mph
11 2:13.953
113.809mph
Disco
Pirelli  
Alain Maurice
 Equipe BGB
Mercedes W196 SL (#1955) F1 1955 6 +1.519
115.380mph
11 +15L
110.414mph
5 2:13.331
114.340mph
Disco
Continental  
Syd Drake
 Drake Racing
Gordini T16 (#1955) F1 1955 13 12 +20L
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Englebert  
Doni Yourth
 Blue Moose Racing
Gordini T16 (#1955) F1 1955 14 13 +2.105
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Englebert  
60fps UKGPL05
 
Mercedes W196 SL (#1955) F1 1955 12 DNS ---
---
Continental  

Moderator's Report

Summary
A win for JonnyO in the Mercedes W196 with Hristo claiming the runner up spot in his Lancia. Evil Clive grabbed third place in his rapid Vanwall.


Server replay time: 0h14m01s

Lap 6 – Sachs Kurve – Phil Thornton and Alain Maurice
Phil is following Alain into Sachs Kurve and gets a little too close (2 car lengths behind at the braking point). Despite standing on the brakes the slipstream pulls him in and gentle contact is made with Alain’s W196SL. Alain slides off onto the grass. Phil waits for Alain to recover but he doesn’t appear because he has had a CTD. Phil’s car is undamaged and after a few seconds he continues.

Alain did nothing wrong.

Phil was too close and bears the responsibility for the incident.

In order to avoid contact under braking always leave at least 3 full car lengths to the car in front. Anything less and you are risking being drawn into the car ahead.

The victim requested any penalty is waived.

  • Racing incident

SimRacing.org.uk Lap Records
Grand Prix Legends
F1 1955
2:10.611
116.789mph
JonnyO
Qualifying
Mercedes W196February 18, 2024, 09:36:20 PM +0000
S4455GPW
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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 44 (Spring 2024) 1955 GP (Works) - Hockenheim - Feb 18  (Read 1014 times)
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Phil Thornton
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« on: February 14, 2024, 05:51:48 PM +0000 »

Season 44 - 1955GP (Works) - Round 3 – Hockenheim
The third race in the 1955 Grand Prix series finds us at Hockenheim in Germany. In 1965, when the new Autobahn A 6 separated the village from the main part of the track, an updated version of Hockenheim circuit was built, which incorporated a new "Motodrom" stadium section. Two fast chicanes were added after Jim Clark was killed on 7 April 1968 in a Formula 2 racing accident.  A small memorial was placed at the site of his accident near the first chicane. In order to improve safety even further, the track was lined with crash barriers in 1970. But the track was still dangerous and claimed the life of Patrick Depailler in 1980. So in 1982, the first chicane was made slower and a third chicane was added at the Ostkurve (east curve). In the early 2000s, Formula 1 officials demanded the 6.823 km (4.240 mi) track be shortened and threatened to discontinue racing there.  So the state government of Baden-Württemberg secured the financing for a redesign by Hermann Tilke ready for the 2002 German Grand Prix. The new "Tilke Track" was not universally popular and many drivers preferred the long circuit. Sadly the old circuit was torn up and replanted with trees thereby preventing any chance of reinstating the long circuit for Formula 1 or indeed using it for historic car races.

Track Limits.  For the purposes of moderating, the track boundary will be the edge of the grass verge. This means the drivers will be able to use all the tarmac in the stadium section. Please check the rules regarding corner cutting (see last bullet point under the General section on the Racing Etiquette page) and the Penalty Guidelines for a bad rejoin.

Race list = iGOR
Server = UKGPL05_60fps
IP address = 146.199.1.65:32666
Password = see above
GPL Mod = 67F1
Damage model = PRO
60fps Patch = 60fpsV2newmod
Track download = Hockenheim 1967
Track directory = hockenhm
Qualifying starts = 20:45 UK time - 45 minutes
Race starts = ~ 21:30 UK time
Race length = 20 laps
Replay= HERE

Please do NOT post chat messages during qualifying or racing until ALL drivers still qualifying or racing have crossed the line.

Driver lists and division specific rules can be found on the championship standings page.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2024, 08:48:54 PM +0000 by Phil Thornton » Logged
Clive Loynes
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2024, 09:35:36 PM +0000 »

Before everyone starts taking liberties with the track limits, could we have a statement regarding track limits?  

There are one or two places in the stadium section that require special mention.
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2024, 11:22:18 PM +0000 »

Please note: There are two or three corners in the stadium section that have minimal kerbs and generous run-off areas so please respect the track limits. That means two wheels within the white lines at all times; both on the inside and outside of the corners.

Please check the rules regarding corner cutting (see last bullet point under the General section on the Racing Etiquette page) and the Penalty Guidelines for a bad rejoin.


See definition of track limits in the race announcement.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2024, 08:49:41 PM +0000 by Phil Thornton » Logged
Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2024, 08:26:00 PM +0000 »

I think an exception should be made for the area between the last 2 corners. It's even dangerous to try and slow down so much to stay within the lines when the runoff area is the same elevation and same surface (tarmac), same grip, like the actual track. It feels much more natural to use up the road there, just beyond the line. I think even in reality they used it in some years. Any thoughts?
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2024, 08:41:50 PM +0000 »

I think an exception should be made for the area between the last 2 corners. It's even dangerous to try and slow down so much to stay within the lines when the runoff area is the same elevation and same surface (tarmac), same grip, like the actual track. It feels much more natural to use up the road there, just beyond the line. I think even in reality they used it in some years. Any thoughts?
We've been having a debate on the moderators forum about this and I've been reviewing the replay from the last time we raced here in Season 42, Round 8. In effect the track boundary on the last 3 corners has traditionally been the grass verge not the white line. In Season 42 practically every driver on every lap was outside the dashed lines between the last 2 corners.

Consequently I'll amend the advice above to state the track boundary is the grass verge. That way the drivers are free to use all the tarmac outside the white lines in the stadium section.
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2024, 09:32:38 PM +0000 »

Well that has rendered useless all the practice that I have done to date.
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2024, 12:17:40 AM +0000 »

Well that has rendered useless all the practice that I have done to date.

It's just the penultimate corner really, in all the rest the line and grass coincide with one another, so it's always 2 wheels on the track. You'll see it's actually easier to take the penultimate corner that way and get a better entry for the last turn too. I tried both ways and the latter way felt more natural and easier in 2nd gear, otherwise I had to go down to 1st for a moment (or really low revs in 2nd).
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Clive Loynes
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2024, 08:24:11 AM +0000 »

I agree that it is much easier to ignore the white lines and probably worth about half a second per lap.  Perhaps more if we can master cutting the last three corners as a sequence . I have zip all in the way of brakes by then so easing the corners is a big help.

Basically we are now saying that Hockenheim should be driven like Mexico.
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EvilClive
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2024, 08:59:17 AM +0000 »

Although I have to agree that the "rules" spell out that we have to keep 2 wheels on the track at all times, this rule has not been applied rigorously for a very long time. Blatant and continuous corner cutting has always been punished and quite rightly so, but at Hockenheim I think drivers have used the extra tarmac (with all cars) by taking the wide line for those last 2 corners for as long as I can remember.

My gut feeling is that to suddenly begin implementing the full extent of this rule mid season and without asking for a vote from the members would be wrong.
 Plus, we must consider exactly how this would be moderated. Are we to expect the moderators to watch all cars through all corners for every lap of every race? or do we rely on other drivers reporting every infringement. Also, how many cuts is too many? 1? 2? 3? 5? before a penalty is applied.

GPL does have a "checkpoint" facility that automatically records and penalises track cutting, but I think we need to test how that works in practice.
Maybe a few test races in the mid season break and a vote on what we should do, before possibly bringing in full implementation for next season?

If this rule is applied fully, there can be no real reason to complain as it will affect all drivers equally.
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2024, 10:30:10 AM +0000 »

We've never used checkpoints in on-line races because imperfect connections can generate false black flags. However with modern broadband connections being much better than 56k modems, the moderating team have been discussing trying a few test races to see if enabling checkpoints is now viable.
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2024, 10:44:29 AM +0000 »

Basically we are now saying that Hockenheim should be driven like Mexico.
Not exactly, each track needs to be considered individually which is what it states in the rules which were updated after the extensive debate we had about Mexico a couple of seasons ago.

The track limits are published in the race announcement which should help the moderators remember what was agreed at each track because each time a race announcement is created, the system prompts the moderator with the last announcement at that track. If I recall correctly, we now have track limits exceptions at 3 tracks: Mexico, d'Ain-Diab and Hockenheim.
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2024, 01:00:49 PM +0000 »

I think the checkpoint test from GPL gives too many false detections, even if you just touch the grass a little bit with a single wheel, like it happened at round 1. I agree that it should be discussed individually for each track and perhaps keep those notes somewhere for future reference when the same track is used.

On a side note, anyone experiencing regular crashes whenever the replay is playing? Unless I pause my replay after doing a stint on this track, or if I open to watch a full lap, it inevitably crashes, regardless of where the car is located during the lap. Never had this happen before.
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Phil Thornton
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2024, 01:26:43 PM +0000 »

I think the checkpoint test from GPL gives too many false detections, even if you just touch the grass a little bit with a single wheel, like it happened at round 1.
You're probably right but it is worth trying a couple of test races.
Quote
I agree that it should be discussed individually for each track and perhaps keep those notes somewhere for future reference when the same track is used.
If the number of tracks that require track limit exceptions increases the mods are going to have to keep a list otherwise, I agree, we are likely to forget what was agreed and confusion will result.
Quote
On a side note, anyone experiencing regular crashes whenever the replay is playing? Unless I pause my replay after doing a stint on this track, or if I open to watch a full lap, it inevitably crashes, regardless of where the car is located during the lap. Never had this happen before.
Unfortunately yes I've had this problem on this track but not on any others. It is a real pain for the moderators when we are trying to review an incident. I think Cookie found a fix which helps. I can't remember which race but if you go to the circuits tab above and look through the list of Hockenheim races you should find it. It was one of the recent races.
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dave curtis
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2024, 01:38:01 PM +0000 »


On a side note, anyone experiencing regular crashes whenever the replay is playing? Unless I pause my replay after doing a stint on this track, or if I open to watch a full lap, it inevitably crashes, regardless of where the car is located during the lap. Never had this happen before.
Unfortunately yes I've had this problem on this track but not on any others. It is a real pain for the moderators when we are trying to review an incident. I think Cookie found a fix which helps. I can't remember which race but if you go to the circuits tab above and look through the list of Hockenheim races you should find it. It was one of the recent races.

There was a subsequent camera update relating to crashes with replays,  I think particularly approaching the start of the stadium section.
Look here at the track addons area: https://gpladdons.the-fastlane.co.uk/trackaddons_list.php?q=(TrackID~equals~221)
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2024, 02:34:53 PM +0000 »

There was a subsequent camera update relating to crashes with replays,  I think particularly approaching the start of the stadium section.
Look here at the track addons area: https://gpladdons.the-fastlane.co.uk/trackaddons_list.php?q=(TrackID~equals~221)


Thanks Dave and Phil!
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